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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 08, 2015 01:39 PM |
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I'm still not convinced by H7 magic system, seven schools seem to many
But we still need more info to make a fair call: # spells per school, what spells we have, how the Skill System will interact with the Magic System...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 08, 2015 02:54 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:55, 08 Jan 2015.
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4 spells per magic tier sounds surprisingly good actually, there is enough room for trying out different schools other than your main. Particularly the last tier that has traditionally been restrictive for your build but it will all come down to how potent tier 4 spells are. If they follow the H6 pattern with the last magic tier being inaccessible to might heroes(and vice versa) it should provide some extra variation between might and magic classes. I am also very happy about the spell-hunting concept making a return.
The only thing I would like better is tweaking the amount of spells per tier:
5 in tier 1
4 in tier 2
3 in tier 3
3 in tier 4
That would give more freedom in earlygame selection but I'm just glad that we get more than 2 tier 4 spells. One guaranteed element and one random in the last tier would be terrible for replayability. Academy with 5 spells per tier is going to be awesome 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 03:40 PM |
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I feel you on that Elvisu, but I would prefer:
6 in tier 1
5 in tier 2
4 in tier 3
3 in tier 4
A continuously descending number seems more intuitive. And methinks 18 spells is a wide enough pool to get at least something useful.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 03:59 PM |
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Elvin said:
4 spells per magic tier sounds surprisingly good actually, there is enough room for trying out different schools other than your main. Particularly the last tier that has traditionally been restrictive for your build but it will all come down to how potent tier 4 spells are. If they follow the H6 pattern with the last magic tier being inaccessible to might heroes(and vice versa) it should provide some extra variation between might and magic classes. I am also very happy about the spell-hunting concept making a return.
The only thing I would like better is tweaking the amount of spells per tier:
5 in tier 1
4 in tier 2
3 in tier 3
3 in tier 4
That would give more freedom in earlygame selection but I'm just glad that we get more than 2 tier 4 spells. One guaranteed element and one random in the last tier would be terrible for replayability. Academy with 5 spells per tier is going to be awesome
I disagree completely.
1) One "favored" spell school is an incredible advantage for Might heroes, since this is the spell school everyone can take blindfolded.
2) That leaves 12 spells for 5 schools, for most, which means, you must be lucky to find another worthy school - it makes no sense to take a school just for a T4 spell, that would be somewhat silly.
3) Things depend also on the # of spells and especially T4 spells per school. If the difference is to come from T4 spells - how many T4 spells per school will there have to be, considering the "spell hunt" motive? And how many towns will it make sense to build a mage guild in?
4) How many spells will it make sense to have will play a role as well, which in turn depends on spell duration and Dispel/Purge/Cleansing mechanics.
5) How costly will a mage guild get that offers no less than FOUR T4 spells?
I don't even want to think about the chaos that will reign for those who will chose the RANDOM skilling that was offered as a Christmas Gift.
Generally, it makes no sense to base balance on T4 spells - how would that even possible at all? You don't want a game, where a magic hero is simply blown from the BF, because the Might hero has the same magic command, but better Might stats to support their creatures - while two T4 spells will suddenly make all the difference (I mean, to make things easy, the spell could be "Might Mirror" - your hero's might stats will be increased to opponent's plus 1).
I also see absolutely no reason whatsoever to have only might heroes, which cannot learn T4 spells; that would certainly make no sense.
Keep in mind that HoMM 5 only had one hero type per faction that you wouldn't describe as might or magic, since they were both, except for Stronghold.
So I'm somewhat sceptical.
Edit: Dear me, Stevie got something right. 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 04:08 PM |
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Is there one school you are preferred or 2? I mean guaranteed spells from 1 or 2 schools?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 04:30 PM |
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Doesn't matter.
The text says nothing about a second one.
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EPICUSDOOMICUS
Known Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 05:20 PM |
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@ All
Happy new year (first post since 2014 for me)!!
@Elvin
Yes, I too think Academy will be awsome.
BUT! Maybe I belong to a minority around here, but no matter how much I love H3, spell randomness has been always a pain in the @@s for me.
I sure prefer the H6 magic skill system (choosing by yourself what spells your hero has to know) ----> personal opinion guys and girls, please don't shoot me
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To die in battle is the greatest glory.
To choose to do so is the greatest honor!
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted January 08, 2015 06:21 PM |
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I can t be optimistic, there s at least between 1-2 level 4 spells, so hypothecally up to 14 spells of mage guild level 4... so i don t want such a magic system. Do some spells belong to multiple magic school ? If not, i don t see how this feature could be interessant..
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 06:33 PM |
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted January 08, 2015 06:46 PM |
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Maybe we will see H7 on anniversary?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2015 07:02 PM |
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted January 08, 2015 07:27 PM |
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Stevie said:
As long as they don't rush for it. I could wait for December 31st if that's what it takes.
Ubi-Nox on blog mentioned that game won't be rushed
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 08, 2015 07:52 PM |
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they said that about assassins creed as well 
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted January 08, 2015 09:30 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
they said that about assassins creed as well
H7 is not made by the same people and they get plenty of flame thanks to AC.
So i wish to believe that H7 won't be rushed.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 08, 2015 10:42 PM |
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AC was an example of what liars Ubi can be and since ubi are have full control over h7...
no, i won't trust them not rushing it since Ubi has a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite. Nox might not have any intention of doing a bad job, but ubi certainly does
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 08, 2015 10:46 PM |
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I'll just kindly remind you that H6 was delayed 3 bloody times
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 08, 2015 11:06 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
AC was an example of what liars Ubi can be and since ubi are have full control over h7...
no, i won't trust them not rushing it since Ubi has a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite. Nox might not have any intention of doing a bad job, but ubi certainly does
They also have no intention in doing bad work, either. Creating such a dud as AC: Unity does terrible job with public opinion about their enterprise. Also importance of those projects is different. AC is the most important source of profit for Ubisoft, so they are released annually (the consequence of that has been recenty noticed but Ubisoft has learnt the lesson and every year one of two studios will release its AC, giving one additional year for production of the game). Heroes VII is not that important and its release date won't change greatly outcomes of fiscal year 2015, therefore up to the point when release date is year 2015, nothing will be particularly rushed.
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2015 07:30 AM |
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Edited by Lokheit at 07:31, 09 Jan 2015.
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I still don't like the 7 magic schools thing.
HOMM5 had the perfect approach:
- 1 School dedicated to buffs.
- 1 School dedicated to debuffs.
- 1 School dedicated to direct damage.
- 1 School dedicated to summons and tactical stuff.
Sometimes simple is better and less is more. Those 4 schools proved to be more than enough. 7 different schools would overcomplicate things (again), specially when there is a skill wheel involved here.
I guess this is just a consequence of the simplistic and strict elemental dragon lore forced down each faction throat so they need to represent their dragon element, making the presence of so many schools neccesary for that purposse. I like dragons, but Ashan would be much better if factions weren't dedicated to specific dragons, I liked it when you could have a human going dark side.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 09, 2015 09:49 AM |
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i hate that system since it forces me to specialize in one approach if i choose a spell school. better to mix all types of spells (buffs, debuffs, damage, summons, utility) into thematic schools. h3 did it right: all schools had access to every type of spell but they were still thematically connected within those schools: earth had to powerful damage spells, buffs focused on allowing your troops to take more punishment (rock hard, baby) and debuffs focused on slowing or outright stopping enemies (slow, forcefield and quicksand). fire had several area of effect damage spells, buffs focusing on increasing the damage your troops can deal and debuffs were all about forcing your opponents to do (or not do anything) something bad (blind, berserk).
it wasn't perfect, but thematic cohesion was still there and you didn't miss out on something no matter what school you took. h5 system was too limiting.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted January 09, 2015 11:25 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
I'll just kindly remind you that H6 was delayed 3 bloody times
Yeah, to give us full, completed bugless game that in the end was a bloody mess.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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