|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted February 23, 2015 07:55 AM |
|
|
Pawek_13 said:
Galaad said:
Quite on the contrary, I think the problem pointed out by Verriker should focus all his attention upon.
Although in case of Liches and Vampires something still can be done, Dungeon in Ashan will always remain a Dark Elves faction, for better and for worse. Race of their lords is rooted too deeply into the lore and no-one would decide to cut it and replace with minotaurs. Besides that, don't you think that Minotaur-based Dungeon would be ludicruous? Minotaur-assasin, Minotaur-shadow matriarch, etc. Speaking about dominant races, I am grateful that Dungeon doesn't rely so heavily on Dark Elves as it used to in Heroes V era - this certainly brings much more variety than Elves presented in four, not that different ways (especially in case of females).
Look, the question was whether there was an alternative to Dark Elves as Dungeon "race", that would have been based on HoMM tradition instead of this rip-off Dark Elven bull, and I answered this with yes, the Minotaurs.
Of course it wouldn't have been a Dark Elven Warhammer style town with Assassins and domina witches, but more like a Nighon Dungeon Overlord Minotaur realm.
I just say that Nival - or Ubisoft - put in a WARHAMMER Dark Elven faction NEEDLESSLY and probably because they really liked it - and now it's "official lore", although, imo, it's first and foremost an unnecessary ripoff.
Of course, the REAL problem behind all this is the backwards story-telling; they could have moved forward in time, the way you do it usually, because that has a couple of advantages, not the least of which is the fact that you can CHANGE things. In this case, the Elves could have buried their hatchet - after all, they were framed -, leave the Dungeon and rejoin their brethren, the Minotaurs picking up the pieces of the empty Dark Elven towns, replacing them.
No problem whatsoever.
But no. Holy Empire's not so glorious past ad nauseam. Elrath Eternal.
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 07:57 AM |
|
|
|
I have always loved Dark Elves, and Dungeon was a great faction in H5.
|
|
Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 07:59 AM |
|
|
Marzhin said:
Galaad said:
Too bad this alone cannot make up for all the other stuff.
As far as the H7 Dungeon is concerned, I don't think the community has much to complain about. Only 2 Dark Elves out of 8 creatures, the return of Troglodytes, Medusae and Hydras... The community voted for this line-up, after all 
And it will definitely be much less purple this time about, I can promise as much 
I guess that's perfectly in line with H6. Let's see...H3, of course, had no Dark Elf units for it was not yet a Dark Elf faction. Completely creature-dominated, full of mythological powerhouses. Minotaurs, Medusae, Troglodytes etc. H5 was Elf-dominated, four out of seven creatures. Yes, I count 'Dark Raider' as an Elf-unit, because it's beast and rider. Hydras had made their appearance in the faction. Then, in H6, Dark Elves made up two out of seven. If now, in H7, they will be outnumbered two to eight, it's acceptable continuity-wise. And since I voted for Malassa's Thousand Faces, I don't really have the right to complain anyway  .
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 08:02 AM |
|
|
Go and play Warhammer. No more Dark Elves in AoW, at least.
Not that I would have anything against Dark Elves. But you should keep in mind that RACE was just a twist to give factions AND THEIR HEROES an identity and give the faction special a broader foundation to stand upon.
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 08:09 AM |
|
|
|
Wow, and here I thought you were an adult and could behave as such.
|
|
Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 08:09 AM |
|
|
Minion said:
Wow, and here I thought you were an adult and could behave as such.
What, you were offended by that? 
|
|
Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 08:11 AM |
|
|
Marzhin said:
Avonu said:
how about Dark Elves pale-skin? Malassa's pact or living underground?
I think the dark elves became pale long before they were exiled to Ygg-Chall. After the pact with Malassa, they started spending most of their time in the darkness, protecting themselves from the light. Tuidhana's realm of Tarlad itself became a dark place, where light would barely enter.
Thanks for answer but... when I played 50 Shades of Purple, Raelag visited former Talrad and it was bright, very bright. I would say it was too bright for Elves do get pale skin.
Also we can visit Talrad/Blacksomething in Heroes Online (it's Haven province in-game) and it also wasn't dark.
Marzhin said:
As for Heroes Kingdoms' being canon or not... it's not. At best it's a "what if" scenario. And most of their visuals are recycled from H5 and therefore outdated.
In case of Faceless - yes. Their canon appearance was specified during Heroes 6, as we all know, but nevertheless some graphics from Heroes Kingdoms were used on Heros 7 blog (IIRC Sylanna's awaken for example).
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 08:13 AM |
|
|
|
I won't come telling someone to go play another game, if I disagree with someone.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 08:17 AM |
|
|
It was just a friendly advice. Dark Elves have their place in some fantasy realms. They could have had a place in Ashan as well - but as a blatant Warhammer ripoff?
Come on.
So that's why I told you if you want to play Warhammer go ahead and do it.
|
|
red_flag
Known Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 09:31 AM |
|
Edited by red_flag at 09:32, 23 Feb 2015.
|
Marzhin said:
As far as the H7 Dungeon is concerned, I don't think the community has much to complain about. Only 2 Dark Elves out of 8 creatures, the return of Troglodytes, Medusae and Hydras... The community voted for this line-up, after all
Voted? It's wasn’t a voting, it was twisting of ours arms. Almost everyone wasn’t happy about line up which he voted for. In right way it should be voting for every tier creatures, just for example:
1 tier: Troglodyte or Skirmisher
2 tier: Lurker or Stalker
3 tier: Assassin in stone
4 tier: Strider or Nightmare or Manticore
5 tier: Shadow Witch or Medusa
6 tier: Minotaur in stone
7a tier: Hydra or Faceless
7b tier: Black Dragon in stone
I know one of them who exactly didn’t appear in final line up in this way. And I didn’t see any gamedesign reasons not to do in this direction. But now it's some old story.
So I’m sure that when artworks of Dungeon creatures will appear there will be a second wave of hating.
There can be only one good reason for that voting - devs want to have some good creatures in the pocket for the future addon. But is it right? I think right is to do the best in the first round to have chance for second round.
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 09:40 AM |
|
|
red_flag said:
There can be only one good reason for that voting - devs want to have some good creatures in the pocket for the future addon. But is it right? I think right is to do the best in the first round to have chance for second round.
I disagree that this is the only good reason for voting.
But if this was even a concern, I.E. "We want to have some good creature in reserve to expand the tiers in an expansion", I'm saying go for it.
I've been saying a long time that only being able to build 7 creatures in a town is too restricting. Now in H7 we get to choose 7 out of 8, is a good start but they're taking babysteps. Getting to pick 7 out of 10 or even 12, now that's something to look forward to.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 09:54 AM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
It was just a friendly advice. Dark Elves have their place in some fantasy realms. They could have had a place in Ashan as well - but as a blatant Warhammer ripoff?
Come on.
So that's why I told you if you want to play Warhammer go ahead and do it.
So you didn't like playing as Dungeon in H5 then?
|
|
Limbic-Jaelle
Shaper of Lore
Communication Management, Limbic Ent.
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 09:58 AM |
|
|
|
Morning everybody... so, what have I missed since thursday?
|
|
Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 10:00 AM |
|
|
Limbic-Jaelle said:
Morning everybody... so, what have I missed since thursday?
Morning only necropolis page update and some rage.
|
|
Limbic-Jaelle
Shaper of Lore
Communication Management, Limbic Ent.
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 10:19 AM |
|
|
Wellplay said:
Limbic-Jaelle said:
Morning everybody... so, what have I missed since thursday?
Morning only necropolis page update and some rage.
Thank god I wasn't here.
|
|
red_flag
Known Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 10:35 AM |
|
Edited by red_flag at 10:40, 23 Feb 2015.
|
War-overlord said:
I disagree that this is the only good reason for voting.
I mean not just a voting, I mean voting for the three prepared line-ups instead of voting for the every tier creatures, but I like your interpretation
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 10:41 AM |
|
|
Minion said:
JollyJoker said:
It was just a friendly advice. Dark Elves have their place in some fantasy realms. They could have had a place in Ashan as well - but as a blatant Warhammer ripoff?
Come on.
So that's why I told you if you want to play Warhammer go ahead and do it.
So you didn't like playing as Dungeon in H5 then?
. I generally liked HoMM 5 as a game, and I didn't mind playing Dungeon, but I thought it was pretty cheesy. I very much disliked the fact that Minotaurs were sluggish Ogres with bondage piercings, and I also disliked the fact that there were suddenly Druchii with their Nauglir part of the deal. Plus, the T6 Witches felt horribly wrong in that slot. Their Sylvan male counterparts felt a lot more like it. Stalkers and Blood Furies were fun to play, but of course pretty cheesy.
Racial was good, though, and Heroes worked.
At that point "Dark Elves" were godawfully cheap anyway and not in the least "cool".
|
|
dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 10:43 AM |
|
|
red_flag said:
Voted? It's wasn’t a voting, it was twisting of ours arms.
Oh, no. Developers gave us chance to vote for line ups, ouch, my hand hurts from all the twisting. Stop bullying us by giving us choises, please
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 11:14 AM |
|
|
dark-whisperer said:
red_flag said:
Voted? It's wasn’t a voting, it was twisting of ours arms.
Oh, no. Developers gave us chance to vote for line ups, ouch, my hand hurts from all the twisting. Stop bullying us by giving us choises, please
Nah, he is kind of right, though. Yes, we got to choose between three line-ups, but when each line-up includes some creatures you don't like, and neither line-up includes all the creatures you do like, it's hard to be really grateful.
Am I asking for too much by wanting to put together my own line-up in the vote? Maybe. I get the argument of balance and different kinds of creatures, but even that is not so much of a problem since many creatures can accommodate different roles depending on what's needed.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 23, 2015 11:33 AM |
|
|
|
However, no matter which way, when there is a vote there will always be some that are disappointed - and if everyone would be happy with the result, it wouldn't have been much of a choice in the first place.
|
|
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
