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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted February 26, 2015 08:15 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 20:17, 26 Feb 2015.
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The_Green_Drag said:
kiryu133 said:
i get that you're bummed out about every faction having an elite shooter (i can understand that though i don't agree)
I've been trying to bring this up for some sort of discussion...with no success. Seems to be a topic everyone ignores or maybe it doesn't matter to anyone. But I'll try one more time...
@ kiryu133
Why don't you agree? You don't see line up diversity as an issue or do you see ranged units as more than just a point and shoot strategy?
i don't really care about the amount of shooters, simple as that. i get how some people find it troubling/limiting/whatever but i don't really care. if all shooters are the same i would, but they're not as far as we know: disciples has two different modes (pierce/explosion), zealots has ranged retaliation and liches debuffs on hit. yes, they all shoot but they still have vastly different roles so no, i don't find it to be a very big deal.
though as i said, i understand that people do think it's a big deal i'm just not one of them 
EDIT: reformating
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:18 PM |
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Sorts said:
LizardWarrior said:
Minion said:
I'd like to remind you that funnily enough the Dark Elves got voted in Heroes 7 by the community 
Not Dark elves, but dungeon 
There were quite a lot dark elf likers among voters.
@ JollyJoker
They were more WH like on H5 but have now gotten different from the source matrial. Again dark elves are a common fantasy trope, even the old universe had a version of them, so whats wrong with them.
The whole concept of RACE-based factions is silly. H5 Warhammer Elves are silly. H6 Dark Elves are silly, because they are unnecessary: it's the only faction without at least an ELITE unit - the Dark Elven units are redundant.
Races have just been introduced as an explanation for "faction abilities", but there is no need to generalize.
So in the end the Dark Elves are a completely artificial placeholder without rhyme or reason.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:19 PM |
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Well idk but aliens and demons mix isn't something that I would hate on principle. It's not even unheard of. In Doom, they prety much did this kind of, and you had prety neat stuff like Imps, Hellknight, Cacodemons, Zombies ... great stuff. They came from Hell ofc, but that was more of another dimention.
Also in World of Warcraft, it is similar idea, Demons come from other dimension, and Outland (where Orcs live) is also another plane. So technicaly Orcs ARE aliens in Warcraft. Demons specialy. And when Humans and elfs go to Outland ... they are Aliens themselves
In Might & Magic serie, Demons also come from other dimention (I think), and besides, we have interdimentional rifts and teleports... so even tho there's no spaceships, aliens are fine imo.
And since I'm speaking of Doom:
I always felt H5 demon was throwback to the classic
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted February 26, 2015 08:33 PM |
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Stevie said:
Yea, about that, let's just not go there again. Ever.
About the Kreegans, I didn't get the idea demons were such from playing Heroes 3. I genuinely believed I was playing with demons, devils, imps, etc., viewing them from a medieval Christian perspective. It never dawned on me they were aliens from outer space, as that didn't affect their models in that direction (unlike Ashan with its over the top religious symbolism).
And mixing a fantasy game that has mythos creatures and a medieval atmosphere with sci-fi elements was never my cup of tea. It completely breaks my immersion.
Glad to hear this! Sorry for bad taste "joke".
And even more, if you haven't played M&M RPG, you'll never notice any kind of sci-fi in Heroes. One moment they tried to tie Heroes with sci-fi - the Forge - there was such an outrage that the whole faction was cancelled.
Now people seem more or less knowledgeable about The Ancients and the Kreegan, but there was a time when very big part of Heroes community (not this website) firmly believed that Heroes are medieval fantasy.
+100500 well said.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Pavijan
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:42 PM |
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While we are in this discussion, I want to ask one simple question to more knowledgeable members.
I loved the whole Kreegans are actually aliens instead of demons and the rest, Ancients and sci-fi thing.
It was definitely original and made universe much cooler, and that way I don't agree with Dark-Whisperer at all. That was one of the better ideas there.
But there was one thing that he mentioned that puzzled me too that someone better versed in M&M RPG lore maybe can answer:
Really, was there any explation why Kreegans, while having space-faring ships, reverted to medieval style warfare (melee combat and all)?
I heard that there were some lasers and blasters at the endings of M&M VI-VIII. So why didn't they use them all the time?
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kobalt
Hired Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:43 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Your art is fantastic, Kobalt - faithful to the H3 spirit, yet with an style that could fit in Ashan. Well done 
kobalt said:
This brings me with a question for you guys though: Seeing as both Wyverns and Hydras do belong to an Ashan faction, what other creatures do you think would fit better in a Swamp line-up?
I believe [url=http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes4/creatures_summonable.shtml]Waspworts[/url] from Heroes IV would fit this faction.
War-Overlord did his own [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40695]Fortress faction[/url], you could use some of those ideas too I guess?
That's a good idea, thanks for the heads-up Storm-Giant! As for War-Overlord's work... Damn! Hats off! A spring of inspiration. One thing I liked in particular was the voodoo part regarding the religious/magic aspect. I'm on the same page with him on that.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:47 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
The whole concept of RACE-based factions is silly.
Lol! Because creatures of various mythologies forming alliances is so much more plausible than a unifying factor such as being of the same race! xD Actually nothing makes more sense than kingdoms are based on something everyone shares, for example RACE.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:51 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
i don't really care about the amount of shooters, simple as that. i get how some people find it troubling/limiting/whatever but i don't really care. if all shooters are the same i would, but they're not as far as we know: disciples has two different modes (pierce/explosion), zealots has ranged retaliation and liches debuffs on hit. yes, they all shoot but they still have vastly different roles so no, i don't find it to be a very big deal.
though as i said, i understand that people do think it's a big deal i'm just not one of them
But that is how it was suppose to be in h6. They had different roles because of their abilities but that didn't make them unique, it only made them slightly different. Just feels like they rely on faction abilities and skills to make their line ups play different. Not a fan of the faction abilities personally, so factions like inferno, stronghold, and sanctuary played basically the same. 2 walkers and 1 shooter for both core and elite tiers with a flying champion for all three, right?
I'm hoping with the new 5 tier system things will be much better so they wont have really similar stats. It is also a chance to change things up a little, like haven could have the zealot be its best elite instead of cavalier.
As I've said before, I prefer to use as many fliers as possible because you can do so much with them. Something I made a habit of due to H1 and H2 mostly. But I just want things to be fairly distributed. I play all the factions so I just want each one to play different. With only 3 types of units and 6 factions I didn't think it would be this hard.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 08:55 PM |
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Now YOU are silly: since when do the members of a faction share a race? Because there are 2 Elves in the mix?
HoMM 6 fac tions are more like DRAGON GOD factions than anything else.
Initially, it was TERRAIN in the first HoMM games.
But there is no reason to ask for one unifying characteristic for all.
HUMANS, for example, is completely wasted. The Wizards are humans as well.
FACTION could be based on quite different things.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 26, 2015 08:58 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 20:58, 26 Feb 2015.
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Minion said:
[Lol! Because creatures of various mythologies forming alliances is so much more plausible than a unifying factor such as being of the same race! xD Actually nothing makes more sense than kingdoms are based on something everyone shares, for example RACE.
Is not about being plausible, is about having some flavor. Racials is fun as a unique ability per faction, not as a lineup consistency factor. Having various mythologies forming alliances and eventually changing them throughout the games gave more freedom to variety in different towns. Now what do we have, the faction of X, the faction of Y, the faction of Z etc. I am persuaded it is somehow limiting the possibilities, restricting the factions to evolve into something more appealing.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 09:05 PM |
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Only Ubisoft is bold and shameless enough to create a web browser game with guilds and a pay to win format.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 09:10 PM |
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I agree Galaad it is not ideal from flavour perspective (but this can be mitigated easily, for example Academy is ruled by Wizards yet we only see 1 human/wizard in the line up). But the argument (by JJ) by no means can be "it is silly for members of the same race to form kingdoms of their own.."
I just lol I can't argue with that...
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 26, 2015 09:10 PM |
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Kayna said:
Only Ubisoft is bold and shameless enough to create a web browser game with guilds and a pay to win format.
About which game arou you talking right now?
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 26, 2015 09:11 PM |
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Pavijan said:
But there was one thing that he mentioned that puzzled me too that someone better versed in M&M RPG lore maybe can answer:
Really, was there any explation why Kreegans, while having space-faring ships, reverted to medieval style warfare (melee combat and all)?
I heard that there were some lasers and blasters at the endings of M&M VI-VIII. So why didn't they use them all the time?
well IIRC, the Kreegans don't really use blasters, they are like a locust swarm who overwhelm in sheer force of numbers
the blasters are weapons of the Ancients which harm the Kreegans, but they're very rare and you need a Forge to replicate more
you also blow up their Hive spaceship with all the tech in Might and Magic 6 before Heroes 3 begins, so there's that lol
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted February 26, 2015 09:19 PM |
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Kayna said:
Only Ubisoft is bold and shameless enough to create a web browser game with guilds and a pay to win format.
Are you talking about Heroes Online? And what's the point of that statement?
P.S.: you may blame Ubi for everything you want, but HO is not a pay-to-win. I haven't spent a single coin on that game. Completed it several times. DoC for a long time was really free-to-play (it's not as good as it was before).
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted February 26, 2015 09:23 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 21:24, 26 Feb 2015.
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verriker said:
well IIRC, the Kreegans don't really use blasters, they are like a locust swarm who overwhelm in sheer force of numbers
the blasters are weapons of the Ancients which harm the Kreegans, but they're very rare and you need a Forge to replicate more
you also blow up their Hive spaceship with all the tech in Might and Magic 6 before Heroes 3 begins, so there's that lol
Actually you find a few blasters in Colony Zod - Kreegans' hive where thier king live on Antagarich. IIRC entrance to prisioners cells is protected by force field.
After the Kreegan landed on Enroth in Night of the Shooting Stars they devided their forces - main force with their queen stayed on Hive ship in Sweet Water ruins on Enroth but their king with some forces invaded Eeofol on Antagarich.
Hi-tech of Ancients is still present on Enroth - the largest vault is located below city of Free Haven on Enroth but there are others as on in Deyja on Antagarich, where not working Heavanly Forge was found.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 09:48 PM |
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Minion said:
I agree Galaad it is not ideal from flavour perspective (but this can be mitigated easily, for example Academy is ruled by Wizards yet we only see 1 human/wizard in the line up). But the argument (by JJ) by no means can be "it is silly for members of the same race to form kingdoms of their own.."
I just lol I can't argue with that...
Learn to quote. Oh, and LEARN.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 26, 2015 10:09 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I just lol I can't argue with that...
Learn to quote. Oh, and LEARN.
Would you like some lemon balm tea? It smells like candies and is told to soothe nerves. Why won't you give it a try?
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 10:17 PM |
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kobalt
Hired Hero
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posted February 26, 2015 10:26 PM |
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Galaad said:
I only wish for the original feel of the series to come back, and Kobalt’s Fortress units seems like providence to me in that hope and direction. If no one objects, I will most certainly show them to the Team when I get there, as he made them for the greater glory of the franchise, even willing to offer it for Ashan, which would, IMO, do a lot of good nevertheless.
I greatly appreciate the thought alone. If you manage that, say hi to the team for me, would you?
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