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kobalt
Hired Hero
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posted March 11, 2015 02:13 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Like this?
tried my hand at it with a quick rework(posed last night)
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 11, 2015 02:14 PM |
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Oh, I thought he was referring to Heroes III and the overused "nostalgia argument". But then again, some of his comments demonstrate that he's stuck on this game too, which makes this statement akin to hitting yourself.
Quote:
2) actually, people dwelling on 2000+ year old game even today makes this game and those people amazing
do you speak sarcasm?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 11, 2015 02:15 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Actually, your comparison is rather flawed, 1) DJ was referring to PG system,
Are you sure? He said "16+ YO game" ... that's 16-years-old, aka Heroes3.
For the record, I sometimes still play Dune 2 and Command & Conquer: Tiberian Dawn and such  . Just because a game is old doesn't mean it's no longer worth playing. I don't think I am particularly stuck in any one game, to be honest, I tend to switch around every few weeks/months.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2015 02:18 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Sorts said:
like Ashan more than Enroth. The setting might have good number of faults but Marzhin&Co are working in them.
Faults are faults, no matter who's working on them.
You speak as if NWC's settings didn't have any.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 11, 2015 02:19 PM |
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Sorts said:
Agreed. The opponents are always the vocal ones, especially the demagogues. Most gamers, especially the content ones aren't yelling out how they like the game or arent bothering themseves with attempts to fight demagogues or "justice trolls." There are fans who like the new setting
Let's be honest. There is a huge line between harsh critique and being a "bile-spewing raging fanboy." And several people on these boards crossed this line long ago: comments about Erwans "arachnophilia," blaming Ashan or lore for unrelated things (for example: the whole blaming Ashan for spiky unrealistic armors) or blatantly disregarding any attempts to reconcile teh fanbase or fix mistakes made during H6.
I have a strong dislike of demagogues and sadly thats what most of those so-called True Fans like Galaad or Lizardwarrior or some others are. You see what you ant to see, and disagree with any thing that might prove you wrong.
I don't believe that my words here change anything, but i don't care.
I like Ashan more than Enroth. The setting might have good number of faults but Marzhin&Co are working in them. And thats good, Ashan has chance to be a better setting, with its own tales and ideas. NWC squandered and wasted Enroth, it had so many possibilities and they ruined, spoiled and destroyed it. This is my primary critique of Enroth/Antagarich/Jadame. They just threw it away. But i am not here to speak ill of the dead.
i won't deny that i've personally taken somewhat of a piss on Ashan every now and again (mostly as a joke but still) but i still want to say i don't necessarily dislike Ashan. i dislike where it is at the moment and i feel it's very stale and cliché (dark elves? really?) but that's not Ashans fault. It's ubisofts fault for not allowing developers and writers to do their own thing with the setting. i've said this as well. Ashan isn't the problem. The absolute ruleset set by Ubisoft is. Writers and developers aren't allowed to see their own ideas into fruition. Ashan has potential that hasn't been realized yet and right now, starting over with a new universe and allowing the developers to shape it as they please is probably the best course of action.
i won't say you're wrong about prefering Ashan over Enroth, but i will ask one thing: isn't destroying an entire world, a loved world at that, in order do start with something fresh pretty admirable? Enroth wasn't necessarily better, neither was Axeoth or the others, but they were without a doubt more interesting and free to change than Ashan is now. This is where my dislike comes from: a lack of flexibility. let your developers do their own thing, ok Ubi?
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 11, 2015 02:20 PM |
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Hmmm... excusez-moi, I was wrong. He actually talks about H3
But M&M is a 16+ game as well 
LizardWarrior said:
do you speak sarcasm?
You think that it's not amazing that 2000+ YO (yeah, I was confused by this "YO") game is still very popular nowadays, even maybe more popular than it was?
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 11, 2015 02:22 PM |
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Dude, what's so hard to understand? I pointed out how ridiculous his argument looks
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 11, 2015 02:23 PM |
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Chess sucks, we should bash developers for making Knight work in such a stupid way. Not to mention that Queen is stronger than the King, and yet less important. That's so offensive, on both accounts. Overpowered too - why exactly is the only female unit in the game the strongest one of them all? This game supports gender inequality and ignores the fact that many kings fought bravely on the battlefields.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 11, 2015 02:26 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Dude, what's so hard to understand? I pointed out how ridiculous his argument looks
I understood it. I even did something along the same lines a few posts earlier. I hope people didnt think i was serious about that...
We both did use the Italic font to emphasise the point though 
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 11, 2015 02:31 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Dude, what's so hard to understand? I pointed out how ridiculous his argument looks
You should always end your sentences properly. "...ridiculous his argument looks for me", that's how it should be. Because, you see, it isn't ridiculous ^_^
P.S.: just so you know, chess was developed (and is developing) throughout history. I don't know anybody who plays the original chess ^_^
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 11, 2015 02:33 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Avirosb said:
Sorts said:
like Ashan more than Enroth. The setting might have good number of faults but Marzhin&Co are working in them.
Faults are faults, no matter who's working on them.
You speak as if NWC's settings didn't have any.
I actually don't, that was a general statement.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 11, 2015 02:36 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Chess sucks, we should bash developers for making Knight work in such a stupid way.
#knightisbestpiece
Sligneris said:
Not to mention that Queen is stronger than the King, and yet less important. That's so offensive, on both accounts.
Oh, this will be fun!
The queen less important because the king is supposed to be protected: you lose the king, you lose the game. making that piece great or even good would kind of defeat the purpose of protecting it. The Queen is the (second) best piece since it's paired with the king or "worst" piece and its supposed guard. since that one is called "king" its pairtner is naturally the "queen".
the queen is also not reduced to a sexual object which is kind of important here as well.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 11, 2015 02:43 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
i won't say you're wrong about prefering Ashan over Enroth, but i will ask one thing: isn't destroying an entire world, a loved world at that, in order do start with something fresh pretty admirable?
May I answer this question? For me, it's pretty stupid.
There's one thing I strongly dislike in the old universe - it's hopping from planet to planet way too fast. You're not used to one setting but you already get new one.
And something fresh? P-p-please. Axeoth was heavily based on Enroth's legacy - too many Enroth Heroes miraculously escaping Cataclysm is one example.
And really, I never understood why they destroyed Enroth. Just why? What was the reason? For fun? Or to just have an excuse for once again change the setting (which, IMO, sucks - Infernopolis, I remember you).
P.S.: btw, Queen isn't the strongest chess piece. kiryu133 got it right.
Queen only looks like it's overpowered, but the knights are the trickiest pieces to deal with and play with ^_^ They can be devastating in good hands. Also, it's very easy to lose your Queen.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 11, 2015 02:49 PM |
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This is starting to get interesting.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 11, 2015 02:51 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
May I answer this question? For me, it's pretty stupid.
There's one thing I strongly dislike in the old universe - it's hopping from planet to planet way too fast. You're not used to one setting but you already get new one.
And something fresh? P-p-please. Axeoth was heavily based on Enroth's legacy - too many Enroth Heroes miraculously escaping Cataclysm is one example.
And really, I never understood why they destroyed Enroth. Just why? What was the reason? For fun? Or to just have an excuse for once again change the setting (which, IMO, sucks - Infernopolis, I remember you).
each to her/his own. The fact that they were able (and actually did) to destroy Enroth in the first place is pretty impressive and admirable to me. It shows that even if something is liked they were willing to bet on themselves being able to do something better. whether they succeeded or not is up to personal opinion, but that they actually took the risk is just so... impressive.
risk is the key word here. it was risky but they did it anyway. I don't see Ubi taking any risks with Ashan.
the heroes franchise hadn't actually changed worlds up to that point i might add. that would be the Might and magic (and i believe they were pretty steady with Enroth at this time? don't quote me on that though)
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 11, 2015 02:54 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 14:54, 11 Mar 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
It shows that even if something is liked they were willing to bet on themselves being able to do something better. whether they succeeded or not is up to personal opinion, but that they actually took the risk is just so... impressive.
The problem is that they chose to destroy it because they didn't know it. So it's not impressive for the least if you ask me.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 11, 2015 02:59 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
You should always end your sentences properly. "...ridiculous his argument looks for me", that's how it should be. Because, you see, it isn't ridiculous ^_^
P.S.: just so you know, chess was developed (and is developing) throughout history. I don't know anybody who plays the original chess ^_^
And heroes III is the 3rd () installment and chess wasn't changed that frequently and that recently. So it's not Heroes I, it's not the first type of chess, but still pretty old
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 11, 2015 02:59 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
risk is the key word here. it was risky but they did it anyway. I don't see Ubi taking any risks with Ashan.
the heroes franchise hadn't actually changed worlds up to that point i might add. that would be the Might and magic (and i believe they were pretty steady with Enroth at this time? don't quote me on that though)
There was basically NO risk, they just destroyed the world but kept the charachters (Sandro, Crag Hack, Christian, Gavin Magnus, to name a few).
The old universe means pretty much the whole universe. It's true that the Heroes almost avoided any sci-fi elements and player which haven't played the RPG won't come over these plot detailes, but I never "teared" them apart. They're still one universe.
And I believe "anti-Ashanists" presented here would talk about whole NWC universe as well, because Ashan too expanded over several genres.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted March 11, 2015 03:05 PM |
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@ Avirosh: An attempt to fix past mistakes is a lot better than just ignoring them.
@ Slingeris: Most of "H3 oldtimers" are unable to see any faults in Enroth. And Avirosh IMO trolls more than has actually anything to say.
@kiryu133: Switching worlds/settings in a estabilished series is always a tricky thing. They could have done a new world without blowing up the previous one, the whole destroying Enroth was a unnecessary thing.
I have my own problems with Ashan, and i can agree that Ashan feels a bit stale, especially since we are playing "in the past." I hope the campaigns can deliver some depth and interesting stuff to the world.
But i wouldn't consider Ashan a cliche world, it uses many common tropes (underground dwelling dark elves are a trope, not cliche)... like almost every other fantasy settting. The important thing for a setting to give its own spin or alteration on them, and Ashan does that.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 11, 2015 03:08 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:10, 11 Mar 2015.
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Sorts said:
@ Slingeris: Most of "H3 oldtimers" are unable to see any faults in Enroth.
This is your assumption, and I disagree with it.
I'd say, most of H3 oldtimers have no clue what Enroth is.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
