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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 22, 2015 01:11 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 13:17, 22 Jun 2015.
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But here goes another idea, why don't devs name the green dragon to greenaurus? That way we would know it is not a dragon (still see it as a dinosaur), rather than having a non-flying dragon 100 years after H5, where dragons flew. And I just don't believe in that retcon trash.
Even if not that, what do you think of having dinos in line-ups (like Sylvan one)?
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 22, 2015 01:12 PM |
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TD said:
I don't really agree with dancer needing boost. It's the same stats guardian has(their idea of balancing is making units all the same between factions IMO). Djinn has more hp but no dmg ability like sweep or double-atk to make them about the same. Also in general the units are just like with other factions in terms of stats. There is slight deviation like adding couple atk and removing couple def, but there isn't much of difference between "counterpart"-units overall. You can find very close equivalent for all creatures in terms of stats from other factions.
Well, Guardian has more HP (40,45). I would rather say that Dancer (35) is in need of a small HP boost because he has the same HP like Abbot (35) and he is the upgraded of Chaplain (28 HP). And do bear in mind that they are range attackers, while Dancer is melee.
EDIT: even Magi, a range unit of academy, has more HP than Dancers. (43,48 vs 35)
EDIT:
@EnergyZ
"why don't devs name the green dragon to greenaurus?" We can always rename him to Indominus Rex. 
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted June 22, 2015 01:14 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 13:16, 22 Jun 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
Count with me
Don't forget the H6 Dragon Utopia's model 
This is sth that made me rage the hardest. Not only Black Dragon looked like s*it, they've also re-used this (I'm a dark butterfly!) crabby model a lot of times. Their only (sort of) reedeming action in H6 was the Kirin, which actually looked nice and had an interesting mechanic. On the subject of dragons I'm very very stingy...
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 22, 2015 01:22 PM |
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Adilmaru said:
I am long time lurker on these forums, and I posted maybe 3-4 times here before. Today I logged in, just to say, this is the worst "fan" community that I have ever seen.
Being a fan of a series does not mean that we one have to agree with everything that is happening to the series, just because you are a fan. A real fan will criticize things that are wrong, hoping that they will be fixed.
Adilmaru said:
Constantly bashing and whining about some nonsense, talking about some stupid things, like those Sea Elfs etc.
To some, these things are stupid, to some they are not. They are highly subjective. You cannot forbid anyone to talk about any feature of the game.
Adilmaru said:
I just want to say, if you don't like the game, then don't buy it, no one is forcing you to do so. Simple as that.
I agree 100%. That is why I will not buy it.
Adilmaru said:
But please, stop whining. Reused models and animations? So what? If that model looks nice, I don't see any problem in that.
Exactly. You do not see any problem with that. But, it seems that many people see a problem.
Adilmaru said:
Heroes 6 gave us completely new models and animations, and it was snow of a game.
Again, I agree 100%.
Adilmaru said:
These guys are clearly trying as much as they can, to give us nice and enjoyable game! Respect that at least.
That 'developers' are trying excuse is a little worn out. You do not sell a product because you gave your best shot in creating it. You sell it because it is good. I respect their enthusiasm, but I will criticize them, if it is needed, because, maybe, it will be an influence on their decisions to make a better game.
Adilmaru said:
You have few hive minds here, while others just repet their words...
Please, wait until game is finished, then express yourself. We all have our opinions, but it is stupid to speak about something that we haven't tryed or tryed it in really bugged state.
As you said,many of us tried a bugged version of it. And what should we conclude: "Oh, nevermind the bugs and broken things. And never mind stupid AI, and never mind that game is to be released in September. They are giving their best, so we should all agree that game will be awesome." That is not the right way to do things. You should be concerned with buggy "beta" (that was only a marketing stunt to get more preorders) and things you saw in it if you care about the game. That way, they maye push the release date, fix the issues, etc.
Now, just to be clear: I am not saying that we should insult the developers, or Ubi, or talk rant. I am talking about argumented discussion of the game, because we are fans of the series.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 01:25 PM |
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Edited by TD at 13:38, 22 Jun 2015.
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Sleeping_Sun said:
Well, Guardian has more HP (40,45). I would rather say that Dancer (35) is in need of a small HP boost because he has the same HP like Abbot (35) and he is the upgraded of Chaplain (28 HP). And do bear in mind that they are range attackers, while Dancer is melee.
EDIT: even Magi, a range unit of academy, has more HP than Dancers. (43,48 vs 35)
Well I rather considered mages to have too much hp rather than others having too little. Even overall academy is a bit hefty on the hp(to enfore the image of them as might team no doubt!). As for blade dancer it's unit based on swift movement. Justicar on the other hand is still a front-line fighter with real armor. Blade dancer should be rather somebody who hits hard, but can't take damage(glass cannon). Just think how they were in h5. The current stats are simply result of h6-style balancing so each faction/unit is similar(having counter-part) = balanced in devs eyes.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 22, 2015 01:59 PM |
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Maybe this is what is missing; we try to get some response from Ubi or devs what we think. But neither of them doesn't care, or shows no interest in replying (well, unless it is really bad, like spamming and outraging). That being said, the community could change if they start changing first.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 02:07 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 14:11, 22 Jun 2015.
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EnergyZ said:
But here goes another idea, why don't devs name the green dragon to greenaurus? That way we would know it is not a dragon (still see it as a dinosaur), rather than having a non-flying dragon 100 years after H5, where dragons flew. And I just don't believe in that retcon trash.
Even if not that, what do you think of having dinos in line-ups (like Sylvan one)?
stop using this nonsense "dinosaur" word. crystal dragons had no wings too, but noone says dinosaur to it.
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that accident which i call "heroes 5" was a terrible game, only that game used such a stupid idea to add dinosaur to game, a raptor. that was a huge mistake, and it remained as a mistake in past.
this creature is called dragon, and it uses previous dragon models, so its a wingless dragon. not a dinosaur.
i honestly dont care what timeline of lore says, heroes 5 was game released years and years ago, and heroes 7 is the newest child of series, and it doesnt have to follow what h5 dictates. if lich can change, so dinosaur can go away too.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 22, 2015 02:11 PM |
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cleglaw said:
that accident which i call "heroes 5" was a terrible game
 I just realized that we have totally different tastes! H5 is the only good heroes game made by Ubi, imo.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 22, 2015 02:15 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 14:17, 22 Jun 2015.
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cleglaw said:
EnergyZ said:
But here goes another idea, why don't devs name the green dragon to greenaurus? That way we would know it is not a dragon (still see it as a dinosaur), rather than having a non-flying dragon 100 years after H5, where dragons flew. And I just don't believe in that retcon trash.
Even if not that, what do you think of having dinos in line-ups (like Sylvan one)?
stop using this nonsense "dinosaur" word. crystal dragons had no wings too, but noone says dinosaur to it.
that accident which i call "heroes 5" was a terrible game, only that game used such a stupid idea to add dinosaur to game, a raptor. that was a huge mistake, and it remained as a mistake in past.
this creature is called dragon, and it uses previous dragon models, so its a wingless dragon. not a dinosaur.
Maybe crystal dragon is also a dino? I mean that it does not fly, it does not have a breath attack, yet it is quite fast and has strong legs. I don't know, it is hard to say.
"i honestly dont care what timeline of lore says, heroes 5 was game released years and years ago, and heroes 7 is the newest child of series, and it doesnt have to follow what h5 dictates."
But you are forgetting the setting is the same; Ashan. This would also cause some strange plot holes that shouldn't have happened.
Besides, why do you consider H5 bad (besides visual look, like cartoonish graphics and 3D townscreens)?
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 22, 2015 02:16 PM |
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H3 Crystal Dragon is a golem.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 02:20 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
cleglaw said:
that accident which i call "heroes 5" was a terrible game
I just realized that we have totally different tastes! H5 is the only good heroes game made by Ubi, imo.
im a h3 fan, and h5 hater. if ubi wants to catch old h3 players like me, they have to drop some ideas of h5 behind. thats why im againts the skillwheel and raptor and some other stuff.. i think h5 messed up with the series way before h6 did. im acctually suprised that many people here likes h5, and sees the abominaton as h6, to me h5 is the one which started this. race based factions, race abilities, meesed up factions, dark elves, fancy unfunctional 3d, weird artstyle, weird lore.. so many changes that even h6 looks innocent compared to it.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 22, 2015 02:30 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 14:33, 22 Jun 2015.
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cleglaw said:
im a h3 fan, and h5 hater. if ubi wants to catch old h3 players like me, they have to drop some ideas of h5 behind. thats why im againts the skillwheel and raptor and some other stuff.. i think h5 messed up with the series way before h6 did. im acctually suprised that many people here likes h5, and sees the abominaton as h6, to me h5 is the one which started this. race based factions, race abilities, meesed up factions, dark elves, fancy unfunctional 3d, weird artstyle, weird lore.. so many changes that even h6 looks innocent compared to it.
Well how to say:
1. This was Ubi's first Heroes game, so our expectations were lowered.
2. Race based factions... well, it is subjective, but I don't consider that much as a major problem. But H6 (and seems H7) also have that problem.
3. Race abilities? What, like racial skill (counterstrike, gating etc.) or creature abilities?
4. 3D... well, you never saw it before. Besides, I will repeat the words: why making the whole game 3D if the townscreens would be 2D? It would be less costly to make the game 2D.
5. Lore, yes. It is basically the problem of whole Ashan idea. But I'd say lore and storyline were #1 problems of the game. You didn't understand what people were talking about, in a lot of times, when first playing the game.
6. Dark elves... didn't they exist in Enroth (just in MM-RPG's)? Even so, it was a new idea, something that could've been fixed later on.
7. Skillwheel was also new and has potential. Isn't it like improvement of Heroes series, being able to choose abilities and skills, plus having additional effects when such things stack? (Okay, the latter one was not actually added, but could be for H8.)
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted June 22, 2015 02:30 PM |
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cleglaw said:
im a h3 fan, and h5 hater. if ubi wants to catch old h3 players like me, they have to drop some ideas of h5 behind. thats why im againts the skillwheel and raptor and some other stuff.. i think h5 messed up with the series way before h6 did. im acctually suprised that many people here likes h5, and sees the abominaton as h6, to me h5 is the one which started this. race based factions, race abilities, meesed up factions, dark elves, fancy unfunctional 3d, weird artstyle, weird lore.. so many changes that even h6 looks innocent compared to it.
I'm also H3 fan  For me, skillwheel was a great addition to the game. I wasn't bothered by raptors at all. Race based factions is something I don't like, so we agree on that. Dark elves I like As for artstyle, I know that many people don't like it, I will just say that I don't mind it. On the other side, I hate H6 artwork As for 3D, it is unfortunately inevitable. I'd love to see good 2D heroes game.
As for H6, too many gameplay changes that I didn't like. Also, the replayability of the game is just awful. Overall, the game was boring for me. On the other hand, I still play H5, along with H3
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 22, 2015 02:54 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Where was your "rage" when you got Haven creatures? A lot of them have reused animations. Or Necro creatures (since lamasu and ghost still remain)?
There is a fine line between reusing assets and REUSING THE ONE AND THE SAME ASSET OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
EnergyZ said:
You forget we also have MMX. Perhaps it is not a Heroes game, but it is a Might & Magic game, therefore should count.
A MaM game is not the same as a HoMaM game. Again fine lines.
Hermes said:
Sometimes I feel that since Blackhole and Puppetworks left, we won't ever see any truly new creatures..
Whit the difference that Puppet works still work on the game.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 22, 2015 02:58 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
EnergyZ said:
You forget we also have MMX. Perhaps it is not a Heroes game, but it is a Might & Magic game, therefore should count.
A MaM game is not the same as a HoMaM game. Again fine lines.
No, but it is still related to copy the same models over and over.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 03:07 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Well how to say:
1. This was Ubi's first Heroes game, so our expectations were lowered.
2. Race based factions... well, it is subjective, but I don't consider that much as a major problem. But H6 (and seems H7) also have that problem.
3. Race abilities? What, like racial skill (counterstrike, gating etc.) or creature abilities?
4. 3D... well, you never saw it before. Besides, I will repeat the words: why making the whole game 3D if the townscreens would be 2D? It would be less costly to make the game 2D.
5. Lore, yes. It is basically the problem of whole Ashan idea. But I'd say lore and storyline were #1 problems of the game. You didn't understand what people were talking about, in a lot of times, when first playing the game.
6. Dark elves... didn't they exist in Enroth (just in MM-RPG's)? Even so, it was a new idea, something that could've been fixed later on.
7. Skillwheel was also new and has potential. Isn't it like improvement of Heroes series, being able to choose abilities and skills, plus having additional effects when such things stack? (Okay, the latter one was not actually added, but could be for H8.)
1. H5 was first Ubi game, but I had high expectation. I didn't really care too much for h5 vanilla to be honest. It was only when ToTE(or maybe Hammers of Fate) came out that I really started playing it and haven't stopped ever since.
2. Race themed factions are something I'm rather neutral about. I do like they tie factions together and make common themes. However having some invisible rule of 9 factions limit for ashan means a lot of potential races/creatures get cut out or end up as neutrals.
3. Racials I always liked very much. They make factions more unique and it's additional penalty for mixed armies that they don't get the racial bonus. (The morale penalty was always just too easy to get around so getting something on top of that was welcome addition).
4. I prefer 3d. I don't need as detailed models though, the graphics could be more simplistic. Especially for battles I always loved 3d. Also adventure map was more rewarding to more thorough players in 3d as with quick glance you might miss some reward(s). If the series did go back to 2d I wouldn't cry about it, I would just expect very detailed and lively world in exchange.
5. Lore can go snow itself. I just want good game-mechanics. Lore should be something to give general direction in the background, not dictate everything. General consistency should be between games, if it comes too limiting create new world.
6. Never had a problem with dark elves personally. H5 (female) DE were a "little" bit revealing, but since the game-play felt unique stuff like that never bothered me.
7. Skill-wheel to me was the best thing that ever happened to skilling/leveling -system in the series. It is big part of why h5 has such high re-play value as part of the basic mechanics of the game.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 22, 2015 03:10 PM |
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cleglaw said:
stop using this nonsense "dinosaur" word. crystal dragons had no wings too, but noone says dinosaur to it.
Eh? That is a dinosaus as much as anything I ever saw in a Heroes game. Even the tiny arms are totally made to give the association to a T-Rex.
____________
What will happen now?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted June 22, 2015 03:22 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
No, but it is still related to copy the same models over and over.
Ok the line is tha if you take a unit (Dragon) and use it in a game, and then re-usit as the same unit in a different game in the same world, that is not much of a problem, it could actually help to create connection and coherenc in the world. Which is why a simple re-use of unit in games is not bad. And it is the reason why I Haven or the Vampire-lich problem was not that big of a deal in my Eyes.
But when you take the same unit (Dragon) and re-use it 3 more times in the same game, you are making yourself look bad. And when you reuse-it 3 times in the next game again, you really starting to look like a ...... (fill in the gap yourselves).
It wasn't bad when MM7 reused units from H3, and alter even MM8 took some of them. Each was a game of its own, and usualy the were the same thing. Now we have the same unit, whit different paint job to work as several units.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 22, 2015 03:26 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
EnergyZ said:
No, but it is still related to copy the same models over and over.
Ok the line is tha if you take a unit (Dragon) and use it in a game, and then re-usit as the same unit in a different game in the same world, that is not much of a problem, it could actually help to create connection and coherenc in the world. Which is why a simple re-use of unit in games is not bad. And it is the reason why I Haven or the Vampire-lich problem was not that big of a deal in my Eyes.
But when you take the same unit (Dragon) and re-use it 3 more times in the same game, you are making yourself look bad. And when you reuse-it 3 times in the next game again, you really starting to look like a ...... (fill in the gap yourselves).
It wasn't bad when MM7 reused units from H3, and alter even MM8 took some of them. Each was a game of its own, and usualy the were the same thing. Now we have the same unit, whit different paint job to work as several units.
Well it would be good to reuse *some* units if they didn't reuse other things.
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the_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted June 22, 2015 03:28 PM |
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Wow now that I see the sylvannas art again that green dragon looks nothing like it. Why are they so bad at their jobs? Rocky, earthy dragon with some crystals and a few branches looked awesome, then they go and make a treant Dino hybrid (jurrassic world marketing?) and they keep the same stupid head from the aweful h6 model...
And a pixie that looks like its from the classic games...oh wow cool yay the pixie looks classical, just don't look for unicorns and phoenixes, but it fits right in 
Really can't wait to see Bambi's attack. Is it gonna bite!? Or is it gonna wave it's hooves at you?!
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