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| Thread: Haven Units and Abilities revealed |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted October 16, 2014 09:33 AM |
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Edited by Kimarous at 09:36, 16 Oct 2014.
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On the topic of Silverbacks, one concern of mine is how Unlimited Retaliation will work with the new flanking system. Granted, I don't know how the intricacies of the flanking system works, but let's assume something like "front = normal damage, side = 1.5x damage, back = 2x damage, retaliation occurs after flanking bonus." That's how I'm assuming it works until evidence otherwise.
Here's the thing, though... because Silverbacks are large animals, they have more hexes on a given side. Let's assume the board is thusly:
_|g|G|_
_|S|S|d
_|S|S|R
_|_|_|R
S = Silverback
G/g = gargoyle and golem, your pick
d = djinn
R = Rakshasa
Here we have four melee units attacking the Silverback at once. Let's assume the Silverback first attacked the Rakshasa, so it is currently facing the right side of the field. Now the golem attacks, getting a flanking bonus, and the Silverback retaliates. Now the djinn can attack its flank. Silverback retaliates, leaving an opening for the gargoyle, leading to another retaliation that leaves the Silverback exposed to the Rakshasa.
If my presumptions of the flanking system is correct, Unlimited Retaliation could prove more of a weakness than a strength in the right circumstances.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted October 16, 2014 01:05 PM |
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Maurice said:
NamelessOrder said:
SILVERBACK
Abilities: Unlimited Retaliation, Feral Charge
Wolf Duchy’s equivalent of a Griffin, Silverbacks has unlimited retaliation. The other ability, Feral Charge will probably work as activated ability that gives you a bonus to damage (and maybe even movement) but will lower your defense until his next turn. I hope he will have high initiative to take advantage of the Feral Charge – you use the wait command and then attack at the end the turn to move him again in the beginning of the next turn so your opponent cannot take full advantage of decreased defense. With low initiative using his ability might become too risky. Also the 2 abilities doesn’t really synergize since Unlimited Retaliation is defensive and works best in a blocker while Feral Charge is offensive.
The description on the site for Feral Charge says that the Silverback leaps onto his target from just about anywhere. To me, that sounds like the Silverback will be able to jump over obstacles towards the target. In essence, a one-time-per-use fly ability.
Also, it says it leaves the Silverback vulnerable for a period after it. People automatically assumed it means its defense will be lowered; has anyone (Marzhin?) confirmed that it works that way? For all we know, it may reduce its initiative for the subsequent turn, so more enemies can attack it before it can act again.
Nothing is confirmed, but to me it really sounds like leap ability of Horned Leaper Inferno Demon from Heroes 5. When he leaps, he gets bonus damage from every tile he has passed(10% per tile I think) and then if the enemy retaliates, retaliation is doing double damage.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 16, 2014 01:24 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 13:24, 16 Oct 2014.
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Kimarous said:
If my presumptions of the flanking system is correct, Unlimited Retaliation could prove more of a weakness than a strength in the right circumstances.
I think the actual facing doesn't matter. The system they will employ is likely one where enemies get a flanking bonus as soon as they're on opposing sides of your creature. Presumably, the game will calculate a line between allies of the attacker and if one or more crosses over (or near enough) the central point of the creature being attacked, it will be considered a flanking attack.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted October 16, 2014 01:43 PM |
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Need wait for stream to see how flanking gona work exactly.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted October 16, 2014 07:59 PM |
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According to the recent stream, there will no longer be a Blood/Tears system because it locked you into a set style of play for bonuses that weren't really worth the effort. There will be different classes, but they will be completely separate classes and not evolutions of a base class.
With that said, let's discuss and speculate on class variations for Haven. We've seen at least two Magic classes - the blue priest of Elrath, like the base mage from H6, and a white-robed mage who I'm 99% sure is either an Angel or a non-melee Seraph. As for the Might builds, we haven't seen one in-game but the big representation on the Haven page looks like an H6 Paladin in Vindicator colours, so that's practically assured to be a Might class.
What do you think? What are your hopes, fears, and speculations?
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2014 11:02 AM |
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source: http://s598.photobucket.com/user/storm-giant/media/Heroes%207/H7%20-%20Screenshots/MMH7_screenshot_03.jpg.html
As i expected Wolfs have one of the highest ini in Haven army.
Does sb know what the numbers above a unit's pictures are?? They look like ini numbers but i'm not totally sure.
If you watch the stream closely and pay attention to Haven units positioning you can see that they are very clunky on battle maps that are constricted by obstacles. In such an environment, the Cuirassiers might be rather weak.
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I'm still very worried about camping possibilities. For example a map displayed during the stream contained some debris that created a perfect camping spot (the red X in the red rectangle). Necro player from H6 would be almost unbeatable in such a place. You can only reach it with 2 big creatures (rectangles 1 and 2) and 1 small (rectangle 3) and maybe, one small flyer (the question mark sign).
I think that debris should be destroyable.
source: ubisoft stream, 2014-10-17
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 17, 2014 12:00 PM |
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NamelessOrder said:
Does sb know what the numbers above a unit's pictures are?? They look like ini numbers but i'm not totally sure.
I don't know the rest of the picture, but could they be stack size of the stack?
Quote:
I'm still very worried about camping possibilities. For example a map displayed during the stream contained some debris that created a perfect camping spot (the red X in the red rectangle). Necro player from H6 would be almost unbeatable in such a place. You can only reach it with 2 big creatures (rectangles 1 and 2) and 1 small (rectangle 3) and maybe, one small flyer (the question mark sign).
We yet don't know what spells and effects the game will feature. One disadvantage of clustering creatures like that is that it makes them vulnerable to area damage spells and effects. Also, Ranged units would still be able to hit the 'campers'.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2014 12:25 PM |
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Maurice said:
NamelessOrder said:
Does sb know what the numbers above a unit's pictures are?? They look like ini numbers but i'm not totally sure.
I don't know the rest of the picture, but could they be stack size of the stack?
no, the numbers below the unit's picture are the stack amounts
Quote:
I'm still very worried about camping possibilities. For example a map displayed during the stream contained some debris that created a perfect camping spot (the red X in the red rectangle). Necro player from H6 would be almost unbeatable in such a place. You can only reach it with 2 big creatures (rectangles 1 and 2) and 1 small (rectangle 3) and maybe, one small flyer (the question mark sign).
Maurice said:
We yet don't know what spells and effects the game will feature. One disadvantage of clustering creatures like that is that it makes them vulnerable to area damage spells and effects.
dmg spells are more or less ok but when the armies are bigger they aren't generally that powerful.
But yes, it's very early to say anything i just warn against sth that occurred in previous instances and i don't see it being taken care of.
Maurice said:
Also, Ranged units would still be able to hit the 'campers'.
which is the type of play im afraid of- camper vs camper and you cannot move away from camping other-wise you lose.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 17, 2014 12:45 PM |
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If they make destruction magic strong camping strategies will be out unless in full map games you collect many resistance artifacts.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2014 01:03 PM |
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Numbers above units are probably their initiative.
About the battlefield, yes that might be a problem, but then again AoE spells will wreak havoc upon those units and unlike in H6, we won't have that many resurrection spells and abilities.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 17, 2014 01:27 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 13:28, 17 Oct 2014.
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RMZ1989 said:
About the battlefield, yes that might be a problem, but then again AoE spells will wreak havoc upon those units and unlike in H6, we won't have that many resurrection spells and abilities.
I think spells valance it quite well. On one hand, we have a good defence point but in such place also area destruction spells will be much more useful. What do you prefer - to stay there and be prone to fireballs, circles of ice, group attack of Apprentices or do you want to flee and let melee units attack you?
Such battlefield gives more strategical options for players and this is why it is good to have such. Of course, not all battlefields should look like that to give greater variety (it was mentioned by Xavier and Marzhin during livestream).
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 17, 2014 02:13 PM |
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They said they want different type of battlefields, and with the announcement they've showed battlefields that are different from previous games. But I'm confident we'll have battlefields with just a few obstacles too.
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dkolb
Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
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posted October 25, 2014 02:33 AM |
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The Swordmaster looks like he is going to be able to collapse enemy formations.
I think the Abbot is going to be an awesome unit specifically because he will be able to make pesky archer units pay a penalty for once.
I'm excited about the wolves too because they seem like they are extreme offense like the inferno hell hounds and cereberi.
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"...once you bought your first green dragon, there was already a necromancer with six or seven boners out and about-Lord_Wook"
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 02, 2014 11:54 AM |
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I was thinking about Justicars and this unit makes perfect sense? Why? I will start my text with example of Hugh Jackman. When he was preparing for a role of Wolverine, his training plan was primarly designed for women, so that they will become swift and agile. Women will never be equal to men in strength, but their gymnastic-related skills are usually greater that in case of men. Look at all sports where females are dominant. They revolve around beauty and being swift. This perfectly corresponds to Justicars. They wear light armour and their basic move - double attack, requires swiftness, which in terms of physical activity is usually corresponded with women. Besides, it looks a little bit like dance, another sport dominated by women. Also, that's why we have in Haven Swordmasters. They do heavy, powerful blows and are slow units, while Justicars, who are also a type of knights, are not that powerful, but are quicker.
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araedros
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 10, 2015 02:46 PM |
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Some late comments from an old player:
One thing that always bothered me in haven faction is that compared to the other factions and with the exception of angels and priests there were no units with above human status.
What I want to say is having a knight or a cavalier as an elite unit is cool and all but if you take a moment to imagine the battle outside of your computer screen, how can a simple warrior on a horse (no matter how skilled he is) cope against a demon/treant/vampire/you name it. Likewise with the Justicars. Besides their training they seem plain ordinary warriors. There’s nothing for me to indicate they should have stats close to that of a Rakshasa for example. This is one area where H6 (with all its weak points) make it right for me. Glories, no matter how lazy they were in their conception, were a proper elite unit lorewise, while sun riders have to be my favourite Haven unit in the series. Both units are depicted as above human level carrying the light of Elrath in them. Now we have ironclad horse riders (where even the narrator in the official blog feels nostalgic for the Sunriders) and fast striking amazons. Not to mention that the Swordmaster looks and feels uninspired overall. I am happy with a human Champion, but would it be so hard to make him a Paladin or Paragon of Elrath, smiting foes with holly might, bridging fighting prowess and divine magic. Anyways, that’s all for me as a huge haven fan.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 10, 2015 03:03 PM |
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araedros said:
how can a simple warrior on a horse (no matter how skilled he is) cope against a demon/treant/vampire/you name it. Likewise with the Justicars.
I am happy with a human Champion, but would it be so hard to make him a Paladin or Paragon of Elrath, smiting foes with holly might, bridging fighting prowess and divine magic. Anyways, that’s all for me as a huge haven fan.
For that we have different creature growth. E.g. there're more cavaliers than rakshasas. And cavalry usually uses charging unison attack, they don't end up fighting rakshasas, for example, in melee combat like infantry does.
Landsknechts aren't normal human either ^_^
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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araedros
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 10, 2015 03:24 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
araedros said:
how can a simple warrior on a horse (no matter how skilled he is) cope against a demon/treant/vampire/you name it. Likewise with the Justicars.
I am happy with a human Champion, but would it be so hard to make him a Paladin or Paragon of Elrath, smiting foes with holly might, bridging fighting prowess and divine magic. Anyways, that’s all for me as a huge haven fan.
For that we have different creature growth. E.g. there're more cavaliers than rakshasas. And cavalry usually uses charging unison attack, they don't end up fighting rakshasas, for example, in melee combat like infantry does.
Landsknechts aren't normal human either ^_^
growth can be different in favour of Haven but not for much. I mean would 2 more riders compensate against a powerful arch lich?
The swordmaster though other than being ridiculously big and wielding a glimmering sword doesn’t have anything in the description that suggests that he could take on a Titan or Grim Reaper. He’s just an oversized Mountain from Game of Thrones
Anyways, that’s just my personal taste so I guess each on his own.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 10, 2015 03:40 PM |
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araedros said:
growth can be different in favour of Haven but not for much. I mean would 2 more riders compensate against a powerful arch lich?
The swordmaster though other than being ridiculously big and wielding a glimmering sword doesn’t have anything in the description that suggests that he could take on a Titan or Grim Reaper. He’s just an oversized Mountain from Game of Thrones
Anyways, that’s just my personal taste so I guess each on his own.
Well, as I said, riders use cavalry unison tactics while Rakshasas are more like single-unit (in some Ashan games, they're champion level for example).
A Lich will probably win, being a shooter ^^
Ehm, if you read carefully, a Swordmaster once beheaded a Cyyclops under Bloodrage ^^ The description also says that they have more dragon blood within them.
Fair enough.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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araedros
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 10, 2015 05:16 PM |
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In any case, for me I just wanted some more “fantasy” elements at least in the elite units.
That’s all
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2015 11:10 AM |
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Haven Army img
source: steam - http://store.steampowered.com/app/321960/
- i still think that the CUIRASSIERs ride a pony and not a proper horse. They are so big compared to their horses.
- I don't see a major improvement over H6 graphics as we should expect after 4 years (i mean compare H5 and H6 difference or H4 and H5)
- there should not be terrain obstacles in the first 3 tiles to prevent turtling
- Piercing Shot is confirmed as active
- in the initiative bar you can see 2 enemy CELESTIAL but i cant spot them on the battleground. Not that this is important but maybe they died later in the battle and a unit stays over its corpse to cover it
- apparently war machines have 10 ini and you can attack them
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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