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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 01:12 AM |
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Remember that you don't have to deploy all of your creatures into battle during tactic phase, so you don't have to keep wolves in your town until they become relevant 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 06, 2015 01:17 AM |
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Elvin said:
I have always prefered to add more elite dwellings.
I agree with this. Better to aim up for Elite/Champion creatures ASAP IMO, gold and resources are on the map, as well as eventually not too far away neutral towns. 
What about creature banks? Are they planned to be added at some point?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 01:22 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 01:22, 06 Jun 2015.
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Minastir said:
Remember that you don't have to deploy all of your creatures into battle during tactic phase, so you don't have to keep wolves in your town until they become relevant
If you really wanna get down to it, you'd have a secondary with your main hero so you could switch up your army at any time. And no, you will never waste a slot leaving a creature on the bar. You'd need each one of them for one stacks.
Elitist jerk mode off.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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mihaitza
Hired Hero
martin had a dream
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posted June 06, 2015 02:24 AM |
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How many years of multiplayer experience recommend you as an expert in this game, Stevie?
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 03:58 AM |
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First impressions of the beta having played only academy on both might and magic so far on free-pick skill-system on the 4-player map with average difficulty:
Initial setup in menus:
1)Hotseat should be in multiplayer
2) Custom game should have default setting of player + AIs, not human players only
3) Choosing hero X should prevent other players from choosing same hero. This also applies to tavern, I ended up with 2x hero X and 2x hero Y.
4) Each hero should show their specialization at least by name. All heroes should also show their main skills(could be shown if you press right mouse button for example).
In game
Towns:
-Buildings are dirt cheap. You don't need any planning whatsoever essentially since you will always have enough resources. I forgot to tag my ore-mine in first game, only noticed I didn't have it at middle of month 2. Yet I never had any problems with resources and didn't even need to use market for ore.
-Many of "choice"-buildings don't really offer any choice in my eyes. It's like asking do you feel you have no skill and need to turtle or do you feel you know how to play... I don't see myself ever building defensive alternative buildings unless it's some small map and I know enemy will rush with big army for certainly.
When it comes to troops it just depends how you build your hero, more shooters for no range-penalty hero. For town with governor having specialty in creature X you go creature X. Even with war-machine hero I wouldn't pick building where you build small pyramid over extra rakshasas since you can just hire hero with war-machine, cheaper and more efficient.
-Most of the pre-requisites don't really make sense to me, you are upgrading building X so you need to have building Y on the other side of the town...? They also guide you quite strictly on how to build the town if you want to be efficient.
-Dwelling upgrades increase creature growth as in h6 while walls are just walls now. I never liked this about h6, but this is personal preference.
- Thieves Guild is dirt cheap and it even keeps the info updated. Seems very simple.
- It seems I don't know how to work the caravans, not that it mattered given the map.
-Tavern seems to have pre-set set of heroes or I'm just very unlucky. I tried 20 new games in a row to see this, result was I got set X 9/20, set Y 11/20.
-No excitement with magic guild with new spells since you can choose the specialization aside first level. Also there should be limit as to how many adventure map-spells you can get. On my first game I had 3 adventure map spells
-artifact recycler kept showing me 0 resources for breaking artis
-Can't seem to sell artifacts anymore for which I see no reason. Also given that player has tons of extra gold after building everything and recruiting all I don't see why this option was taken off.
+TS itself didn't bother me, I don't think I actually looked at it even once.
Heroes:
- Many specializations don't really correspond with main skills. For example prime-magic as main skill and boost to water magic or +250 gold and no economics as main skill. Also having different starting skills than mains skills seems a bit odd to me given the system.
-Hero specializations are very boring and static. They don't grow with hero and many get/are rather useless in comparison to others.
-The UI feels very clumsy switching between inventory and skills. (also skill-button sometimes crashes the game).
-Hero starting army seems to always consist of core units. I have yet to see hero who has few elites for example for the unit they "lead/represent"
-pre-made classes with set main skills showed me quickly that many of the heroes I wouldn't ever even want to try given their stat growth and skills.
+Some heroes have unique setup at start like only wolves, start with war-machine and/or start with spell.
Skill&magic-system:
To put it simply, it is boring. On my first game I didn't feel it had much to offer after level 9. Next time I accessed it was at level 15 or 16, the battles were already easy enough with magic hero(killing some 60-70 mages with single stacks was easy enough). Meta magic is meant for...? Frankly I didn't feel meta magic was even useful, I just ended up spamming same spells(big area, small area, single target) in just about every battle. There just was no need for meta magic, normal wisdom boosts seemed good enough. I had no real use for meta magic as neither might nor magic hero(though I did get it for both).
-Prime GM seems completely useless since you get +40 mana after each battle anyway
-War-machines isn't really any different from past. They are fairly mediocre even with maxed upgrades(GM) and early on. Already at end of month 1 I felt the points could've been much better spent elsewhere. If you play short game it's ok incase you are not willing to get magic hero which is much better frankly.(Also my triple shooting pyramid was bugged, only getting single shot until I restarted the game and loaded)
-Abilities are not balanced at all. You got clearly better and worse skills/abilities to go for. Also many abilities don't feel like they are in right "tier/level" considering their power.
-Abilities are also clearly targeted for specific hero and use so there isn't real choice in most cases as to what you will choose.
-Area spells always do the same dmg regardless if unit is hit in 1,2 or 4 squares. This was one of the few good improvements h6 brought making spell-placement more important and I'm very disappointed to see this gone in h7.
-Level-system from h6. Already at end of month 1 I was around level 12 without getting out of my area. Few turns later level 15 or 16 at underground, still not at enemy area and this is only medium size map(I was playing the average difficulty which was the pre-set). I had the same problem at h6, you leveled up in no time. There is no use nor need for exp boosts since they just eat up skill-points for something you max up very easily anyhow. This makes a whole skill feel useless(In h5 it at least gave extra stats so it always remained useful)
-Clarvoyance reveals couple of squares which I can't even seem to see. Feels completely useless spell to me. Also in general I wish no all adventure-map spells were tier 1.
+It is very easy and simple system that would seem great for new players.
Combat:
-Combat maps are too small compared to creature movement. Every creature I encountered walks across the map by end of turn 2 to reach their target.
-Wait-command seems to work the same as h6 mirroring the order (12345 waiting becomes 54321).
-Same feel as in h6 combat. Dozen simurghs can kill dozen gargoyles. 6 Rakshasas killed 4 gargoyles(these were on my magic hero with very low defence). 30+ cores can kill few cores(on my might hero with very low defence).
-AI is terrible. It has very bad prioritizing and doesn't even care about ranged units(gargoyles are just that threatening to the AI!). Air elementals don't even move by AI, just defend at their end(I played with only gargoyles and only cabirs, both times same situation, they won't move/attack if they can't reach enemy in same turn).
-Hero attack seems rather useless in terms of dmg(and with the meta magic atk-ability)
-Frankly the battles feel extremely mechanical and soulless. Only HoMM-game in the past that had this problem for me was h6. Don't really know how to explain it
-Battles are all about hero. Very little tactics are required as it's all about having certain skills. Same tactic is used in just about every battle, only difference being if enemy has shooter or not. For me army of 50 gargoyles I got in first week was more than enough for 5 weeks(I lost 10-15 total). At which point I replaced it with simurgh as only stack I used in battle. For might-hero these were cabirs and titans.
-The tactics-phase at start of battle doesn't remember your troop-placement of before so you gotta move them each battle manually.
-Flanking doesn't work for ranged(which it did in Heroes Online)
-Flanking looks as ridiculous as always before making units waltz around with each other.(Also bug sometimes causes you not hit from right angle you clicked)
-Flanking modifier seems to depend on might(I think highest modifier I noticed was 1,88 on week 1 and it seemed very high)
-The amount killed in estimate isn't always correct. I noticed this especially true with the small-pyramid being wrong always.
-Creature active-abilities can always be cast even on morale-turns, no cooldown.
-Free choice in when using hero makes battles way less challenging. Hopefully hero will get own initiative and turn.
-Range-penalty is easy to get rid of.
+Range penalty-modifier depends on distance of enemy.
Adventure map:
-It feels like you are barely moving(and this was medium size map!).
-Picking artifacts and viting places is too expensive. This forces player to either take logistics or recruit more secondary heroes which I did. Eventually this lead to me just leaving resources around as penalty felt too high and resources felt worthless anyway. Moving 2nd hero to pick up resources just started to feel pointless effort also considering the value of resources.
-Picking resources should add them immediately to you. The counter is just unnecessary to show how each resource gets added. This in part just makes the game feel in more slow and sluggish.
-Tax collector should just keep adding up the gold in storage until player picks it IMO. Now it's no different from old water wheel.
-You shouldn't be able to see before hand if enemy will join you.
-You shouldn't be able to see in how many stacks enemy is split up in. It just takes challenge and random element away from game.
-You can see how much resources you will get from camp-sites which is again another random element away.
-Elemental conflux isn't random weekly elemental you can recruit, but pre-set steadily growing creature like any other now.
-Artifacts are all just gold-boxes like in h6.
-Most adventure-map buildings seem like they are straight from h6.
-I did not see any battle-sites
-The world seems very grey, plain and artificial(and dead). I didn't care too much for the h6 world, but it did look much better than h7 currently. H6 looked much more lively though it went too much for the magical fantasy-side for my taste.
-I did not see with random enemies any mixed armies which I thought were going to be implemented in h7(for example having cabirs, gargoyles and golems all in one neutral instead of having only gargoyles for example. Also in every match I only saw single form of unit; upgrade or basic form, but never both)
+Elemental recruitment costs rares(which is something I have hoped for long time).
+The black-hand fortress(or whatever it was called underground middle) is fresh take on area revealing buildings.
Artifacts:
-Some artifacts don't work. Some artifacts require you to move them around to get them to work.
-Artifact sets seem somewhat underwhelming with bonuses they bring
Overall:
I can't really say this made me think any more positively about the game. Almost all things I found negative I had already thought they worked the same from info that were given us. I feel like the worst parts of this game will be skill-system, hero specializations, flanking, town-chart(the requirements and low prices), low adventure-map movement feel, creature tier-system, creature abilities and sluggish feelling UI. The game just felt dumbed down heroes, very much like h6 though not in the exact same way. Random elements have been largely eliminated from the game which were great part of fun and excitement, game overall feels simplified to target casual players. It doesn't feel so far that the game will offer any re-playability. Some things h7 does better than h6, some it actually does worse. I really can't even say for certain if it's going to be better than h6(never though I would say that!), but for certain not the best of heroes. That would require such fundamental changes IMO that I just don't see happening. The game feels very mediocre to me(and I don't take into account the balancing nor bugs into this, just the general feel of the game with its features).
I will maybe try haven this weekend, but frankly I just don't find the game all that interesting having tried it. Funny enough the game works smoothly for me at max graphics with Radeon 6900 series though it has some graphical bugs. I don't bother bringing up the graphical bugs since 5xxx and 6xxxx series were said to have problems specifically as I recall.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted June 06, 2015 09:15 AM |
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Minastir said:
kiryu133 said:
Hope they bring back creature speed impacting hero move speed. that was a cool (if in need of actually being told) mechanic that i would like to return.
So is random skills good? A pick of it showed up in the bug thread and it seemed promising.
It's good, basically the same as in HV, but for me the problem is, take a look at the screenshot (Dies Irae screenshot):
Screenshot
I don't know to which skill the ability belong to, on the screenshot it's obvious because of 'fire scholar' but when you have Righteousness, Offense and leadership, I had no idea which ability belongs to which skill 
The same 'uncertainty' also pops up in H5. Your hero can learn 6 skills only, 5 if you don't take the always-present faction skill in consideration. All the subsequent abilities fall within the category of those five skills. The same applies here. You know what skills your hero has learned, so the abilities go within one of those categories. Also, even on Random you can still access the skillwheel and see what goes where . Eventually you will learn all or at least most of the abilities within each skill, so you can just choose what suits you best at that moment (buffs, things, etc).
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sirironfist
Known Hero
King of the ogres
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posted June 06, 2015 09:55 AM |
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What I really like is the use of cinematic camera in combat. It does not feel like it's interupting the battle like in the previous two games. Generally the combat view is much more pleasant, because you can actually see your creatures.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 10:11 AM |
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anybody playing this game on laptop? mine is dell with 8 gb ram, i5 with 1.7 ghz per core(2 cores i think) and a Nvidia gtx840 2gb.
still i get a very laggy demo, with very laggy quality on high settings. once i put the lowest EVER it is more smooth but still too laggy!!!
is it because i pirated the demo or this game has extremely high demands?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 06, 2015 10:18 AM |
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Well it works slow on my laptop too, even tough the requirements shouldn't be a problem and it eats up to 4 GB of Ram at once (it jumps from 2 GB used to 6 GB used as soon as I start the beta, got 8GB RAM as you do). It's just the fact that Ubi doesn't like laptops very much
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 10:29 AM |
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TD
I disagree with you on many points..
To me the gameplay is fantastic and I love how dynamic battles are, how open skill system is - how many builds you can go for and the factions feel so so different...
Haven is just RELENTLESS...Those Justicar combined with Wolves and Legionaries make an awesome attack pack... Cavarly are basically Champions they are too good.
Academy on the other side shines with their magic immune and soulless creatures. Rakshasa are just the destroyers and Mages feel like Artillery.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 10:35 AM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Well it works slow on my laptop too, even tough the requirements shouldn't be a problem and it eats up to 4 GB of Ram at once (it jumps from 2 GB used to 6 GB used as soon as I start the beta, got 8GB RAM as you do). It's just the fact that Ubi doesn't like laptops very much
just had a breakthrough(it used the integrated card although i had appointed nvidia, had to appoint it just for the game from the panel -.-) and it is way smoother but still kinda slow, but not laggy. even though i put the speed to the maximum it is still slow!
i played heroes 6 at my old laptop and this one and it plays splendid.
btw has anyone else noticed that the pyramid shoots wherever it wants and never does damage? god it is so funny!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 06, 2015 10:45 AM |
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mihaitza said:
How many years of multiplayer experience recommend you as an expert in this game, Stevie?
Shh. The doctor said to always agree with him.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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cori14
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 11:09 AM |
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Edited by cori14 at 11:10, 06 Jun 2015.
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TD said:
Overall:
I can't really say this made me think any more positively about the game. Almost all things I found negative I had already thought they worked the same from info that were given us. I feel like the worst parts of this game will be skill-system, hero specializations, flanking, town-chart(the requirements and low prices), low adventure-map movement feel, creature tier-system, creature abilities and sluggish feelling UI. The game just felt dumbed down heroes, very much like h6 though not in the exact same way. Random elements have been largely eliminated from the game which were great part of fun and excitement, game overall feels simplified to target casual players. It doesn't feel so far that the game will offer any re-playability. Some things h7 does better than h6, some it actually does worse. I really can't even say for certain if it's going to be better than h6(never though I would say that!), but for certain not the best of heroes. That would require such fundamental changes IMO that I just don't see happening. The game feels very mediocre to me(and I don't take into account the balancing nor bugs into this, just the general feel of the game with its features).
I will maybe try haven this weekend, but frankly I just don't find the game all that interesting having tried it. Funny enough the game works smoothly for me at max graphics with Radeon 6900 series though it has some graphical bugs. I don't bother bringing up the graphical bugs since 5xxx and 6xxxx series were said to have problems specifically as I recall.
Sadly this and the other posts in the topic just confirms the reads they put out in the last few months, and the last gameplay stream did just that too.
Thought I'll get a beta key, but I don't even have the notion to try it.(Too much Witcher 3 and exams  ) I'll get into it when the open beta or something launches, if there will be one.(Hopefully they change some things for the better until then)
Keep up the posts guys, It's a fun topic nonetheless.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted June 06, 2015 11:22 AM |
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Im positively surprised by the difference between war cries and magic. It doesn´t feel the same at all, and since they only last one turn and have really different uses they feel very tactical. Like something used by generals.
The beta is rough, unpolished and leaves a lot of room for improvement. In many areas. But there is hope for a good product in the end. It doesnt really feel like H6, but they could do more to add immersion.
More zoomed in battlefield as default, choiche to remove grid and only have movement "shadow", dont show text and numbers all the time during battle and if so do it more discreet like in the battle log, remove regular battle themes from H6 (never liked those), flavour text for heroes, creatures, spells and artifacts. Artwork (or zoomed in 3D models) for creatues in game when looking at stats (and/or recruting). More ambient sounds from adventure map objects when passing by, the orchestral sound from H2 when visiting certain mapobjects (always loved those strings)...
The list goes on
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted June 06, 2015 11:40 AM |
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Elvin said:
I don't see why you'd use the doggies for creeping. They are the kind of unit you leave in your town to accumulate because they die too easily Warmachines, archers, priests surrounded by small sentinel stacks works fine for creeping. I'm guessing that shooter boosting wacry works too, it gives +8 attack. If you also upgrade the sentinels they give crazy survivability to each other and then there's that defensive perk for adjacent stacks in righteousness. No need for doggies.
I use them because they KILL. As Stevie said, they're the best Core Haven has. They are the only relyable damage-dealers untill you've got a pretty good stack of Cavaliers.
Sentinels are rock-solid, but they hit like a grandmother. Crossbowmen have a very big damage range, which makes them a bit unreliable.
Warmachines are fine, but they do require a bit of hero investment, which takes a few lvls. So do Warcries.
You perhaps don't need them, but it makes creeping faster and more satisfying.
Also, you've not given a reason to build a shooting range over a slaughterhouse. Other than to build neither in favor of elite dwellings.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 06, 2015 12:01 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:03, 06 Jun 2015.
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There is one core and one elite in each line-up that it's better than its counterparts - that was a point of design. With Haven, wolves are the better cores and cavaliers the better elites. There is no reason to go for increasing a weaker, more unreliable core like the crossbowmen unless you maxed on shooter skills/abilities with your Hero build (warcries, offense, air, etc.) and you want to get the best value out of them, and/or you either sacrificed your wolves early on and now their numbers aren't a threat for the enemy. That's the best reasoning I can come up with in their favor and I still find it very wanting.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 06, 2015 12:02 PM |
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Hermes said:
TD
I disagree with you on many points..
To me the gameplay is fantastic and I love how dynamic battles are, how open skill system is - how many builds you can go for and the factions feel so so different...
Haven is just RELENTLESS...Those Justicar combined with Wolves and Legionaries make an awesome attack pack... Cavarly are basically Champions they are too good.
Academy on the other side shines with their magic immune and soulless creatures. Rakshasa are just the destroyers and Mages feel like Artillery.
Don't forget, this is just the beta with two maps. To be great, this feeling of yours should apply to a lot more people on a lot more maps. These first moments may be okay, but I just don't think it will work on a bigger basis.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted June 06, 2015 12:05 PM |
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Does the game goes slower and slower the more you play as well or is it my laptop that's doing it?
It reminds me a lot of Heroes IV this way. The more you played the harder it got for the game to keep up the framerates and speed.
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted June 06, 2015 12:07 PM |
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articun said:
Does the game goes slower and slower the more you play as well or is it my laptop that's doing it?
It reminds me a lot of Heroes IV this way. The more you played the harder it got for the game to keep up the framerates and speed.
I experience the same, on a stationary.
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted June 06, 2015 12:34 PM |
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Stevie said:
There is one core and one elite in each line-up that it's better than its counterparts - that was a point of design. With Haven, wolves are the better cores and cavaliers the better elites.
I've noticed that, but I don't know which one that is supposed to be for Academy. (Mind I've only played academy once so far in a 3 hour session)
I'm thinking Golems, but I'm not sure. But that doesn't give the same non-dilemma for Academy. If I recall correctly, you can either boost Golems or Cabir.
Golems are very solid tanks, it takes a lot of effort to kill them. Cabir on the other hand are very effective shooters and repairers.
Choosing between Golems and Cabir is choosing between fast and slow. This is a choice that depends on your playstyle and is less of a non-brainer than Haven is.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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