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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 02, 2015 11:14 AM |
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Dunno, maybe there are a lot of Green Dragons and Treants around where the developers live, but for me, it seems rather obvious. 
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 11:14 AM |
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Edited by Steyn at 11:22, 02 Jul 2015.
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Elvin said:
- The Moon doe is fine apart from the fact that it looks so plain and ordinary.. Being blue is about the only special thing about it. The sun deer looks a lot less special than the artwork which is disappointing. But my real complaint are those awkward attack animations. They are horrible and devoid of grace. Any chance they will be improved? Maybe a solar beam? At this rate laser shooting from their eyes would be a lot more preferable
Not only are those attack animations really ugly, it also looks like the animators didn't pay any attention to the way a real deer attacks. The head should be held low and the enemy punched into the ground, instead of this weird looking uppercut. The sun deer will hopefully indeed shoot some kind of sun beam, 'cause else his attack looks even more ridiculous. I think the animators should take a good look at goat fight, because those buggers have some really cool attacks. Especially when they rear up on their hind legs before attacking. Here is an example to show what I mean.
These sheep also know what they are doing.
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Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 02:18 PM |
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Elvin said:
- The Moon doe is fine apart from the fact that it looks so plain and ordinary.. Being blue is about the only special thing about it. The sun deer looks a lot less special than the artwork which is disappointing. But my real complaint are those awkward attack animations. They are horrible and devoid of grace. Any chance they will be improved? Maybe a solar beam? At this rate laser shooting from their eyes would be a lot more preferable
so sprite and blade master are overdone but the doe is very simple...?
smth tells me that if the doe and the stag had lots of bling they would be "overdone"... *deep sigh...
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 02, 2015 02:22 PM |
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i think they're rather reasonable in decor. simple, not too much stuff. what you'd expect a deer to kinda look like in h3 even (minus the whole sun/glowing bit). they're still not unicorns though 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 02, 2015 03:51 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
so sprite and blade master are overdone but the doe is very simple...?
Aren't they? Ubi has trouble finding some commonly acceptable middle ground.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 05:06 PM |
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The particle effects look so bad lol
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albe
Promising
Adventuring Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
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posted July 02, 2015 06:20 PM |
bonus applied by Elvin on 02 Jul 2015. |
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I know I am a bit late to comment on everything from the line-ups to models and abilities, but here it goes:
First, I am really disappointed in the developers choice of the three line-ups. The line-ups was all decent and each had their good thing. Strength had unicorns, Balance had phoenixes and Fury was overall the best without the stupid "root snakes" and "emerald knights". It was clear that no one would ever want a "root snake" in his or her army, so that left Fury for the most popular choice and I understand that.
One thing I don't understand is how the unicorn suddenly classified was a "defensive" unit in the defensive line-up. In H5 it had amazing offensive power and dealt great amounts of damage, so why would you take away its role and give it to the sun deer? I simply don't see a reason other than the devs didn’t want us to have all our favorite units in the same line-up (same for Dungeon line-ups). That way we ended up with 3 decent line-ups all with some units that was not though about.
Another thing about the line-ups that bothers me is why the green dragon was part of the Fury line-up. I mean it has great damage yes, but it is made of stone and possess only “average” speed. It seems easy to go with the phoenix instead since it is fast, it flies and looks more damage dealing, but also more fragile. That would make the differences between the champions much greater instead of having two "slow" strong champions that walks. I will stop complaining about the line-ups for now.
I will talk about the different units individually:
Hunter/Master Hunter: A must-have unit for Sylvan imo. It looks fresh, while keeping it traditional. In addition, the hood is a nice reference to sharpshooters.
Dryad/Oak Dryad: Now that conservative rage comes to life! I simply don't see the purpose of this unit. I don't know why you would split up the H5 sprite/dryad in two separate units in the same unit level! I find it annoying that dryads are without purpose until you get treants, which so very smartly makes you never want to choose dragons, since dryads then are totally useless. They look rather fine though, but their model remind me of genies...
Pixie/Sprite: Looks gorgeous. I find this new design very appealing for them and they still resemble the old butterfly ladies from past games. They function as they used to, which is fine for me.
Druid/Druid Elder: Artwork was not so good, but the models luckily looks better. I do though agree that it looks like the H5 druid just gender bended. I had hoped for a more innovative look as shown earlier. Abilities look rather interesting though.
Moon Doe/Sun Deer: Conservative rage incoming! First of all this creature to me looks weak (mostly the doe) and naked. It is simply a fancy deer with a glowing aura around it. I have to admit I never really liked the deer, but I might be annoyed because of the obvious unicorn replacement as mentioned earlier. I did though find hope when I remember what the deer in CoH looked like, but these miss the majestic look that the CoH deer had. The doe looks more like a core unit and I actually think it would work out with a fast-damage dealing core creature like the wolf in Haven. I had also hoped for some cool jumping-over-obstacles ability, but it was hard to imagine how it would work out. Furthermore, why does the doe become a deer when upgraded? Do they gender bend it as well as the druid?
Blade Dancer/Blade Master: As said the model is much better than the artwork, so that is a huge improvement. I do overall like the blade dancer, but the blade master seems overdone. The shown artwork from line-up voting looked better imo.
Green Dragon/Emerald Dragon: This is indeed a very interesting design choice. Whereas the H5 green dragon was rather slim and had wings, this one is bulky and without wings, which makes sense since it is made (from what I see) mostly of stone. It could be called Stone Dragon as well, but it isn't as great a name. I like its design overall and it doesn't look like a giant lizard as I would feat when the wings are missing, so they did a good job on that. The emerald dragon is though not so good... At least the model is bad. It could even be the basic form of the creature. The tree head makes the problem along with the removal of the plants on the back. I think they should have kept the head in stone and the made a crown of the branches. The back should also have some plants or branches on it. The attack animation is quiet disappointing, especially when it seems that "Acid breath" is applied on standard attacks.
Treant/Ancient Treant: As said by many it looks really good and the design is close to perfect, so all good on that. If I need to be critic (which I do), I would remodel the head (it reminds me a bit of Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean). Also the blue color of the leaves for the Ancient Treant should be changed. It has some very great abilities, which I look forward to try out. About it being a ranged creature, I would say that I don't hope so. It isn't worth much having a tanky, defensive creature with supporting abilities throwing stones at enemies - leave that to the cyclopes (I know they don't in H7, but they used to).
Now if I had the power of the Erwinner I would do the following:
Remove dryads and give the sprites the ability to synergize with treants. That would leave room in the core tier for either the blade dancer or the deer to move down. The blade dancer would then be a great dueling unit in core with more stable defensive abilities than pixies, which would lose some of their attack power in order to receive the dryad abilities. It would make sense that the fragile pixie then is use along with blade dancer in early-mid game and then in late game stays with treants and thus don't die, while still being useful. The same thing would work out if the deer was moved instead. As I said, it could be a Sylvan version of the wolf with high movement and great damage.
This would leave a spot in the elite tier and there we should of course (Enrothian Conservatie Party says) have the unicorn as a both offensive and defensive strong unit (either BD and deer would still stay and act as a pure offense unit). I simply cannot think about Sylvan without a unicorn in it. I would be like removing the Black Dragon from Dungeon, the Vampire from Necropolis or the Titan from Academy. It simply does not have the right "Heroes feel" without it.
Now that I am still dreaming about the power to create a different line-up, I would also switch out either the green dragon or the treant with the phoenix. As mentioned before an offensive line-up makes much more sense to me if the strongest unit in the faction can fly up in the beginning of the combat and strike at the enemy forces as the phoenix used to in the older games. It is just a much more offensive choice of creature to me and it feels too repetitive with two bulky champions in a faction that should be about swift and fast hitting creatures.
Pardon for the wall of text 
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 06:46 PM |
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Nice post 
You took the words right out of mouth 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 07:01 PM |
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Elvin said:
ChrisD1 said:
so sprite and blade master are overdone but the doe is very simple...?
Aren't they? Ubi has trouble finding some commonly acceptable middle ground.
Well that's a truth yet to be discovered. I think that this middle ground is more of a small rock actually. Take out 3 feathers from the blade master and put them on the doe? Is that "ground" enough?
Make the sprite's wings same colour as its dress,and give doe an extra color?
I think we should take a step back and enjoy
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 08:32 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 20:32, 02 Jul 2015.
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albe said:
Furthermore, why does the doe become a deer when upgraded? Do they gender bend it as well as the druid?
I really don't understand how all this gender thing can cause so much fuss among people.
The way I see it is very simple, there are 2 types of creatures sun deer and moon doe, with the basic dwelling you can only recruit one type (moon doe) and with upgraded dwelling you can recruit both. It is the same way with dragons, angels, golems, humans and everything else.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 02, 2015 09:14 PM |
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jhb said:
I really don't understand how all this gender thing can cause so much fuss among people.
The way I see it is very simple, there are 2 types of creatures sun deer and moon doe, with the basic dwelling you can only recruit one type (moon doe) and with upgraded dwelling you can recruit both. It is the same way with dragons, angels, golems, humans and everything else.
It's not really an issue for me either, but I think one of the gribes people have with it is the actual upgrade of the unit - you have a doe, then you pay some money and it becomes a deer. That's kind of ... silly. Easier to envision when you give the unit some better equipment, better training, or whatever.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 02, 2015 09:26 PM |
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alcibiades said:
It's not really an issue for me either, but I think one of the gribes people have with it is the actual upgrade of the unit - you have a doe, then you pay some money and it becomes a deer.
not so Alcibiades,
the doe is already a deer (also a stag), it is upgraded into a stag which is called a deer and also called a stag, but the doe is and simultaneously isn't a deer, hope that clears things up lol
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albe
Promising
Adventuring Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
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posted July 02, 2015 09:32 PM |
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Thank you very much for the QP, Elvin. I appreciate it a lot
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 02, 2015 10:02 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 22:02, 02 Jul 2015.
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jhb said:
The way I see it is very simple, there are 2 types of creatures sun deer and moon doe, with the basic dwelling you can only recruit one type (moon doe) and with upgraded dwelling you can recruit both. It is the same way with dragons, angels, golems, humans and everything else.
Except when you bought those Does and then upgrade them to Deer - how do you explain that one?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 02, 2015 10:05 PM |
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omg, it's not hard!
get with the setting already!
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted July 02, 2015 10:12 PM |
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Those deers are indeed strange, even tough sex changes for upgrades happened before (h3 genies), now the gender itself makes the actual upgrade. For example in h3 you could have said that the genie stack was composed of both male and female genies and the upgrade only changed the "icon" unit, but now you are 100% sure that the upgrade stack contains only males while the basic stack contains only females. Ain't that strange? 
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2015 10:28 PM |
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Maurice said:
jhb said:
The way I see it is very simple, there are 2 types of creatures sun deer and moon doe, with the basic dwelling you can only recruit one type (moon doe) and with upgraded dwelling you can recruit both. It is the same way with dragons, angels, golems, humans and everything else.
Except when you bought those Does and then upgrade them to Deer - how do you explain that one?
I would say there is team of elven doctors working 24/7 on these subjects, oh wait...
we could say we are exchanging the units, not upgrading.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 02, 2015 10:38 PM |
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OK OK.. So it's my time to post an opinion on the Sylvan line-up. Whit all the models and abilities published I can't play my "let us wait what will come" card any more.
From the begining I must say that the first, second, and every other glance at the 3D models slowly chipped away my grudge for the artworks. And several units look better on in game. But STILL in many cases the basic form looks beter then the upgrade.
So now let us focuse on the individual units.
Hunter/Master hunterOk, this was a unit I liked from its artwork, and the model made the artwork justice. I really like how the Elven units are depicted in this game. They feel more powerful and intimidating, not like those push-overs from H5. The scale armor helps a lot btw. In general, these are, in a long time, Elves that I could respect.
Grade: Expectation: 8, Final grade: 8
Sprite/PixieAs many of you I was disappointed that the final game art did not correspond with the Vote one, but this unit is one of those, whose 3D model made me like it. It looks vivid, varied, and actually not like the ghost at all! You can see the difference in the animation, how time has made them better then in the H6 era.
Grade: Expectation: 5, Final grade: 7
Dryad/Oak DryadThis on the other hand was one of my most liked artworks, but at the same time most feared one, due to basic concept similarities with the Djinn (Legless, half naked, female spirit). Oh what my surprise was that the model looks BETTER then the art. The skin color gives much needed contrast, and I love the funny animation. The cooperation with a Warfare unit is also a nice touch imho.
Grade: Expectation: 8, Final grade: 9
Druid/Druid EldarThe basic druid was my MOST liked artwork, and the model itself does it great justice. But the upgrade was one of my least liked ones. Luckily for the faction, the 3D model looks a bit better then the art, but I still feel that their was a better choice of headwear.
Grade Basic: Expectation: 8, Final grade: 8
Grade Upgrade: Expectation: 4, Final grade: 5
Sun Doe/Moon Dear Ok Lol, this is the worst unit in the line-up for me. And opportunity for an truly epic creature has been missed, burned and stomped on here. The concept it self is not that good and sounds like something from an Adoptable site. The 3D animations don't help much as well, as does the fact that it is a "stronger Elite" fulfilling the role of a support unit.
Grade: Expectation: 4, Final grade: 4
Blade Dancer/Blade MasterThere was a lot of fuss about this unit. Mostly based on it's artwork, that I did not directly liked, but got interested by it. The 3D models and Abilities gave this unit form in the end. High damage output but fragile is a good fit for the unit, and from my point of view, I like the Indian touche. Honestly if you do want to make an elven faction based on real world cultures, a mix of Celtic and Native north american influences is one of the best options.
Grade: Expectation: 5, Final grade: 6,5
Treant/Ancient TreantWhen I first saw the Art during the vote, I thought it was just another "might look like this" concept which looked too good to be true. the fact that the final product was based on it, was a pleasant surprise for me. I must say this is the best looking treant/tree man I have seen in a long time and maybe even be the best in MaM games. Abilities are also interesting, creating more tactical options an variations. In general a nice treat that i thought would be all looks but no taste.
Grade: Expectation: 7, Final grade: 7
Green/Emerald DragonSo Marzhin claims that the Dragon is an original new model made from scratch, and not based either on the dragon or kirin. I'm gonna take his word for it, but in that case, somebody should take the 3D artist and introduce him to a new concept of how a Dragon might look. Ok, It does look better then on the art. What I Don't like, is the fact that it has skills and abilities too similar to the upgraded Wyvern. Im all for re-using abilities, but this is a Champion unit! It should have had something special :-(! The final grade will be better then I expected it to be, but I can not help it to not be hurt by this unit.
Grade: Expectation: 4, Final grade: 6
In the end. I must confess that Sylvan and its unit was aesthetically a huge surprise for me. I expected this faction to look bad, but for now, if I take away the one or two bad looking units, it might overall be the best looking faction for now.
Now Excuse me While I go rant why does stronghold not look so good :-(
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 02, 2015 10:57 PM |
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Maurice said:
Except when you bought those Does and then upgrade them to Deer - how do you explain that one?
Same way you explain having 1000 creatures represented by a one-gender stack - you don't, just roll with it.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 02, 2015 11:03 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Same way you explain having 1000 creatures represented by a one-gender stack - you don't, just roll with it.
not the same thing man, check Lizard Warrior's post, those are just representations but this is literally a sex change of the unit lol
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This thread is pages long: 
