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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 28, 2016 07:01 PM |
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Well, for one church should be living by the spirit. Look at the fruits and you will see what kinda tree it is. Jesus, said He is the true wine tree. Jesus centered and people centered. There is two diagonals in a cross, vertical is your connection to God and horizontal is your connection to people. These two are very closely connected and if you make good fruit there is enough to share others. Loving, caring, compassionate and truthfull. There is not enough good preaching on Word, evangelium should be our joy, by words and actions if church has motivation to increase this in the people, more people will be come to kingdom of God, more will find help in their problems. N.T shows us clear example.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 28, 2016 07:06 PM |
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 28, 2016 08:39 PM |
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Homer171 said:
...There is two diagonals in a cross, vertical is your connection to God and horizontal is your connection to people. These two are very closely connected and if you make good fruit there is enough to share others...
Very good Homer. I imagined the scourging and agony of Christ on the cross but the cross has always meant to me, the same way as you, an important life-intersection and you well described it.
I will add also, and "possibly" a larger view, it represents all human contact. Every day two people meet at a "crossroad" and come in contact in some fashion. Whether people are Christian or not this is the fact of people living lives.
To me, this happens so often it is far, far too easy for us to take others for granted. After all, we are only human.
When I decided to follow Christ, my goal was simple and direct; be the best husband, father, brother, friend etc. that I could be and as Os said earlier in his talk...you have to care to "Be there in the moment" with others. Compassion is ever my goal and there always seems to be a little further for me to reach. Honestly, I hope I never think I have arrived anywhere on that quest.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 28, 2016 08:58 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 21:04, 28 Sep 2016.
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Homer171 said:
What you think about it?
It's clear to me, that young man sees the Truth of Christ. I'm glad I posted what I did because it explains how the Church eventually became a Religion carrying little of Christ.
Thank you for sharing the link. It made me glad that the young man can share great help to others...I hope over a long life. I consider the guy quite blessed because it took a lot of years for me to learn what he now knows. God bless him and anyone that can put away...SELF.
One of the best sayings that I've never forgot was "You may be the only scripture anyone sees". Now to me that is stating what should be obvious but people often need in many things...to return to the start or return to the source.
Note: notice the 12th line of this poem.
Endeavor
Break the spell
Walk a new way
Search in love
Seize each day.
Test the spirit
Challenge the mind
Hold a new vision
Seek to find.
Renew the senses
Deepen at heart
Discover in truth
Return to the start
Take the narrow path
Explore our earth
Remember all others
Play with mirth.
Pursue the Master
Consume the flame
Desire his ways
Embrace his name
Touch in youth
Believe to see.
Sing to the winds
Free to be.
Markkur 1999
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted September 28, 2016 09:46 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 21:50, 28 Sep 2016.
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markkur said:
What should a New Testament church be?
The body is the temple.
markkur said:
Return to the start
"You may be the only scripture anyone sees"
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 28, 2016 10:33 PM |
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Homer171 said:
...There is two diagonals in a cross, vertical is your connection to God and horizontal is your connection to people.
Which reminds me... Some years ago I was watching a documentary series, (I recommend to download it, btw, Ancient Rome - The Rise and Fall of an Empire, six episodes all focusing on different eras of Rome, dramatized but accurate, wonderful series), during the episode on Constantine, when he converted, his soldiers drew this symbol on their shields:
And just as I was wondering if it's an earlier version of the cross or something else, like a legion symbol or whatever, they also entered the city with it after victory, and there was this dialogue in the crowd.
- What's that, where's the eagle?
- It's a Christian symbol
So, I checked out the history of cross and found out that it wasn't the regular icon during the first two centuries. What was more common before it was a symbol named Staurogram (the monnogrammatic cross) and when you look at that, it is kind of similar but definitely not the same:
Christian cross variants
To this day, I haven't been able to track down the origin of the symbol in the documentary, I mean, I haven't tried for hours but still.. any idea about the story behind it?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 29, 2016 01:41 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 13:52, 29 Sep 2016.
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yogi said:
markkur said:
What should a New Testament church be?
The body is the temple.
True start but the Church begins with "Wherever two or more are gathered I am in their midst" This makes Marriage the smallest but most vital assembly.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Pretty cool...last night I bumped into a movie (I went back to finish A man for All Seasons, from the same uploader - but this time with Chuck Heston in the lead role as Thomas More)I've never heard of called "Saving Grace". It is a Paramount picture starring the fine actor Tom Conti as the Pope. However, <imo> this Pope could also have written what I have shared as well as Homer's young man's video.
null
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted September 29, 2016 02:28 PM |
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artu said:
To this day, I haven't been able to track down the origin of the symbol in the documentary, I mean, I haven't tried for hours but still.. any idea about the story behind it?
As far as I know the "chi-rho" has its origins in the use of kings making monograms of their name, I've read that it was used as far as back as King Phillip of the Macedonians.
The whole point is that it's the first to letters of Christ in Greek, so X and P, apparently I was wrong to say it meant Christus Rex (Although it is quite charming as an hypothesis).
So, I believe it was used due to the regal implication of such a symbol besides Constantine, however, I don't know how it came to reach its spread.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Sumsum
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 05, 2016 08:58 AM |
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artu said:
So, I checked out the history of cross and found out that it wasn't the regular icon during the first two centuries. What was more common before it was a symbol named Staurogram (the monnogrammatic cross) and when you look at that, it is kind of similar but definitely not the same:
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross_variants]Christian cross variants[/url]
To this day, I haven't been able to track down the origin of the symbol in the documentary, I mean, I haven't tried for hours but still.. any idea about the story behind it?
Studies show that it might not've been a simple cross (or a tau rho cross). It might have been a kind of circle used to torture people
and it might've not been hanging, it might've just been layed on the ground.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted October 05, 2016 08:58 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 21:22, 05 Oct 2016.
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It is just another mega-holy-saint symbol that apeared in some mind long time ago. The thing like that apearing through of a History of Mankind begging from 50 000 years B.C.E.
Something like that.
Quote:
Before man learned about words and letters, he used different drawings and pictures to communicate stories and narratives to other people. Certain drawings or pictures were commonly used to connote particular things, thus symbols were born. Through the years, people all over the world have used symbols to mean many different things. They have become an easy way to point out an ideology, to express an abstract thought or even to denote a group or community who share the same goals. Below are some of the most iconic symbols used throughout history and how they influenced the world.
Symbols Influence on History
The Christianity itself have made nothin' revolutionary in that way.
So the above mentioned symbols can be used in the any purpose that you want, in general it is just a marble on the paper, you can put the any meaning that you want, into it  .
So my opinion is: Nothin revolutionary, nothin' special, and more important - a nothin' interesting for myself. Just another marble, that has been used, like a holy-sacred stuff for the large mass of peoples.
yogi -
yogi said:
The body is the temple.
yogi said:
stilling the body and directing the mind inward
in contrast: active, procreating bodies need fat and regeneration.
yogi said:
the human body is a lens; which refracts not just space, but time.
Nahh, from your words the human body is not a temple, it is more looks like a frigging nuclear power plant with a Coal Mine like Energy elevators, a Hubble Telescope like Space-Time lens on the roof - whahhahahah  .
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 05, 2016 09:11 PM |
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Riding the mount of a donkey
Expected to rule by sword and hammer of justice
The truth shall set you free
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What are you up to
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 05, 2016 09:19 PM |
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Symbology is one of the things that separates us from animals, among all the other things that philosophers said (Diogenes is funny however, he couldn't find a man...)
Symbols are great because they allow you to condense pages and pages of thought into a single picture, in a way that is shared across thousands.
You don't see nothing when looking at a chi-ro because you can't go beyond the visual representation, and yet, if you dig deeper you realize that this mere juxtaposition of letters hides the proclamation of Christ as king, (although it may not say Christus Rex, monograms at the time were symbols of kings) and, following the story, Constantine charging to battle with this symbol upon his legions bears a statement of submission to Christ's regal authority.
Just as the fish, the connection may seem loose, at best you can link the "fishermen of men", but actually, in Greek, fish is Ichthys, which at the time was used as an anagram for: "Jesus Christ Son of God Saviour" in Greek.
And so on.
You may give whatever meaning you want, but such an effort is null, considering that you will be the only one giving a symbol your meaning, as instead people have already agreed upon what the symbols mean.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted October 05, 2016 09:49 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 22:12, 05 Oct 2016.
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Neraus -
Quote:
Symbology is one of the things that separates us from animals, among all the other things that philosophers said (Diogenes is funny however, he couldn't find a man...)
Ahmm, I am always thought that the ability to store and transport an information in the way of communications (using a language i.e.), was a more important for the growing of the Human Brain
I mean the practical using the symbols is much more important than the symbols itself
Quote:
You don't see nothing when looking at a chi-ro because you can't go beyond the visual representation, and yet, if you dig deeper you realize that this mere juxtaposition of letters hides the proclamation of Christ as king, (although it may not say Christus Rex, monograms at the time were symbols of kings) and, following the story, Constantine charging to battle with this symbol upon his legions bears a statement of submission to Christ's regal authority.
The correction - I can see anything and everything that can provide my imagination in this particular symbol.
If you are imagine something that you want to see in this symbol, then you have shared this toughs through a large amount of the peoples - it still will be nothin' more than a shared imagination . I mean, it is a matter of agreement.
Quote:
Just as the fish, the connection may seem loose, at best you can link the "fishermen of men", but actually, in Greek, fish is Ichthys, which at the time was used as an anagram for: "Jesus Christ Son of God Saviour" in Greek.
And what a difference of that from what I have type - nothin' more than another holy-sacred mega-spiritual symbol for a peoples. You can find such stuff through a History of Mankind, the Christianity is not an exception.  As the almost the same as the any other modern religion, and religion like cults, communities and so on
Quote:
You may give whatever meaning you want, but such an effort is null, considering that you will be the only one giving a symbol your meaning, as instead people have already agreed upon what the symbols mean.
yeah... yeah...
Quote:
"Generally management of the many is the same as generally management of the few, it's a matter of organization." - Sun Tzu
Of course it is a nonsense, somekind , but I think it is right in the place to describe of what I am thinking about .
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 05, 2016 10:30 PM |
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frostysh said:
Quote:
You don't see nothing when looking at a chi-ro because you can't go beyond the visual representation, and yet, if you dig deeper you realize that this mere juxtaposition of letters hides the proclamation of Christ as king, (although it may not say Christus Rex, monograms at the time were symbols of kings) and, following the story, Constantine charging to battle with this symbol upon his legions bears a statement of submission to Christ's regal authority.
The correction - I can see anything and everything that can provide my imagination in this particular symbol.
If you are imagine something that you want to see in this symbol, then you have shared this toughs through a large amount of the peoples - it still will be nothin' more than a shared imagination . I mean, it is a matter of agreement.
[...]
Quote:
"Generally management of the many is the same as generally management of the few, it's a matter of organization." - Sun Tzu
Of course it is a nonsense, somekind , but I think it is right in the place to describe of what I am thinking about .
You are missing the point, and congratulations on labeling Sun Tzu's thoughts as nonsense.
The power of the symbol is its ease of use to express a shared thought, and yes, the quote you said is nonsense basically applies to this, a symbol can organize a thought, it can bring a mass to follow a lead and so on, and for that reason symbols aren't just a piece of marble with some meaning that you give, that is called modern "art".
I find it ironic that you denounce the use of jewish symbols to claim that games are anti-semitic while yourself not finding any other meaning in symbols other than what you can see with your sight.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted October 06, 2016 09:42 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 21:43, 06 Oct 2016.
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Neraus -
Neraus said:
You are missing the point, and congratulations on labeling Sun Tzu's thoughts as nonsense.
OF course I will not believe into anything that has been scribed by a guy which is lived an eternity ago, in the time even without a cell-phones , in addition he was a truly joker .
Neraus said:
The power of the symbol is its ease of use to express a shared thought, and yes, the quote you said is nonsense basically applies to this, a symbol can organize a thought, it can bring a mass to follow a lead and so on, and for that reason symbols aren't just a piece of marble with some meaning that you give, that is called modern "art".
Not the power of the piece of marble itself, but the power of what the peoples see into it. Yeah... A typo Psychology of the large amount of peoples. You call the piece of marble as anything, but this is will not change the very fact - it is a piece of marble like the many others .
Neraus said:
I find it ironic that you denounce the use of jewish symbols to claim that games are anti-semitic while yourself not finding any other meaning in symbols other than what you can see with your sight.
What ... ? Are you talking about my topic - "Heroes 5 propaganda"?
- if that so, again the correction, not the jewish piece of marble alone, but a combination of: good/evil side distribution + typo holy paladins mythology + characterizing symbolism = the propaganda picture. Without the previous two factors the symbolism alone cannot give the working propaganda stuff to you.
You again saw the symbol, concentrate your eyes on it , and forgot to read what I have typed there also
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted November 11, 2016 07:15 PM |
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In recent times I browsed the Googles, searching for stuff like "(religion) logic", "(religion) irony" etcetera, to see what kind of memes abound on the internet. I'm quite sure that a lot of these take certain aspects out of context to pose them as being exemplary of a belief's (or nonbelief's) faults, simply in order to poke fun at or ridicule said beliefs. Both faith and atheism receive a fair share of bashing on the internet.
The example I'm about to give you is likely just one of those 'out of context' things, but it struck me as very peculiar and I'd like some of you guys' opinion on this matter.
In sequence we read these three things, starting with Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters — yes, even their own life — such a person cannot be my disciple."
Then, in 1 John 3:15, it says: "Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him."
In Revelations 21:8, we read: "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
So...followers of Christ are damned, then?
This comes from honest curiosity. So how would you explain that?
____________
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted November 11, 2016 09:08 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters — yes, even their own life — such a person cannot be my disciple."
Then, in 1 John 3:15, it says: "Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him."
This comes from honest curiosity. So how would you explain that?
I would suggest looking up that first passage in the Greek to see what's there because when I have dug in to translations often they were not done well. As you know in language sometimes words can have multiple meanings, so in translation <imo> often the wrong one is chosen and even at rarer times it was done for a specific purpose.
<imvho>What Christ said was to not "favor or prefer" ANY others, no matter their position in your life, over your dedicated discipleship. In short, God must rule your Spirit or He doesn't. I suppose he could have made the point that "this is such a serious matter you need to distance yourself from everyone" but that's not in keeping with everything he said. In the end you'll have to decide for yourself.
Another passage that has caused conflict is "Call no man Father". Now where do you suppose Papa, Atta, Abba, Dad or Daddy came from? God is the Father of my spiritual life and my Dad was my Dad. Legally he was my Earthly Father and I never had qualms about that. However, for me Father was a distant term and my use of Dad was one of love and respect.
As far as the second, if Christ said to "love your enemy" than that should make it clear that "Love" is central to the Christian walk. Read the 13th Chapter of Corinthians from Paul's letters and you should get a clear idea.
Hope that helps a little. Cheers
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted November 11, 2016 10:14 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 22:16, 11 Nov 2016.
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The first passage has the same meaning as the Son of Man bringing the sword and not peace.
If one isn't willing to reject the world, its pleasures and its temptations, if one doesn't reject the things that bind you here, then he can't be a disciple of Christ.
That's why we come to a sort of "contemptus mundi", we are destined for life in the kingdom of Heaven and not to remain here, as such we mustn't covet this world's pleasures, but the heavenly world's.
Figures of speech...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2016 03:06 AM |
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Thank you Dies_Irae for the question. Like you said most of the "jokes" about bible are out of contex and have very little thing to do with reality. If it's facebook or any other media people "quote" bible and write in end of it: Ha, ha, ha stupid christians... Even tough they clearly have no idea what they are quoting about. Could say joke is on them but I have never found ignorance quite amusing aim afraid.
Like brothers here said it's a parable. One biggest mistake is to take one word out of big contex and make one new concept out of it. Imo, bible comes together quite nicely and has very little controversy when looked little bit closer. We should know...
I quote here the whole Luke 14 chapter starting from 7 as there the "story begins". Would be nice to know what you think for yourself, what that teaching meaned. Here goes:
Quote:
7 When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: 8 “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. 9 If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. 10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. 11 For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
15 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”
16 Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’
18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’
19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’
20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’
21 “The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’
22 “‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’
23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’”
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, 30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’
31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.
34 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35 It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
“Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
The last part is commonly referred as: The Cost of Being a Disciple. Chapter clearly explains how you need to let go the things that mathers you the most, THAT STOPS you to become beliaver/disciple. May it be wealth, power or even family, nothing should stand in your way to gain this goal. All in nutshell: "33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples." Cost of becoming a christian is to submit your whole life to God's hands.
Hope this helped you Dies_Irae
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted November 12, 2016 04:20 AM |
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This thread is pages long: 
