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JollyJoker
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posted November 07, 2019 12:08 PM |
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We seem to have different opinions on the matter. 
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blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 01:45 PM |
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Italians have a decently strong place in academia but honestly the topic of intellectual persuasion is somewhat garbage because a lot of that just comes down to A) money and B) language. English-speaking universities get more exposure because English is the language of choice in business. It's not based on merit or at the very least not solely based on merit.
Somebody overrated in terms of their contributions, like Stephen Hawking, wouldn't be nearly as famous if he wasn't born in an English speaking country.
@JJ:
I keep repeating myself, but children born in atheist families move into religion as adults at a high rate. You keep saying that people lose their faith as they grow up but you're speaking exclusively as a mid-20th century German in a country that is saturated with anti-theist sentiment, anti-family sentiment, and hedonist sentiment, and where children are conditioned into a certain mindset in public school and at university. It's obviously hard to maintain a faith in that environment and the intellect is only a secondary reason. It has more to do with the sensory and emotional factors. A person might be able to maintain a vague spirituality but Christianity or Islam are very different.
"Science" does not make people stop being religious. Peer pressure will, but that is no surprise.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 07, 2019 01:58 PM |
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And ... the troll throws another bone.
Henceforth you shall be ignored. 
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blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 02:00 PM |
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Because A) you have no arguments, B) you know what I'm saying is true, and C) this knowledge infuriates you.
Show me a known Christian in a public school in Amsterdam or Berlin or Paris and I will show you a kid being bullied by other children and quite possibly treated unequally by the staff. THAT is why people become non-religious. The "science" factor is a joke. Human beings want acceptance and approval and when you're a young person you are especially vulnerable.
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Minion
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posted November 07, 2019 02:17 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
children born in atheist families move into religion as adults at a high rate
How high? And where are you getting this info, I tried googling it.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 07, 2019 03:20 PM |
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blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 03:53 PM |
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Hi Minion:
Sure. Admittedly I've done a lot of reading over the years and I can't always pinpoint an exact source off the top of my head, but here is some data in the United States and I do know that these trends are similar in the UK. There is also a mass exodus of atheism in Eastern Asia.
https://www.vox.com/2014/4/28/5659984/only-30-percent-of-kids-raised-as-atheists-stay-that-way-as-adults
If I remember correctly, there are a few countries where this trend isn't as strong. Austria, for example, is a highly homogeneous country and Austrians have far fewer opportunities to be exposed to the wider world compared to an American or Brit. This means the prevailing secular culture since WW2 is able to more efficiently control and condition people. BUT even in homogeneous countries with fewer opportunities to divert from the norm and where peer pressure would be stronger, plenty of people raised in atheist families shift as adults.
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Salamandre
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posted November 07, 2019 03:55 PM |
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Interesting, I would have thought that Muslims will be on top, as they are the only one to harshly punish apostasy (at least in theory).
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blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 03:59 PM |
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Muslims convert to Christianity at a high rate or become non-religious (not that people are necessarily going to believe me since the two angry atheist ideologues on this thread are convinced I sit around reading stuff on evangelical sites... which I never do because that's a waste of time). Also, Muslims from Indonesia or India are less strict compared to those in the M.E. or Africa.
Hindus have very close families bonds and they have the strongest retention.
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Salamandre
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posted November 07, 2019 04:07 PM |
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Oh you know, the people who bash on christian religion remind me of the phrase "you stay on the shoulder of a giant while thinking you can fly".
Again, I'm not religious, but I have eyes to see who came from what and what are the results worldwide.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 07, 2019 04:13 PM |
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Before you lean yourself too far outta the window, you might want to read the quoted article...
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blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 04:14 PM |
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And this is why if Western Europe & North America continue to eradicate their own culture and their own traditions in place of more totalitarian systems, either from the Neo-Marxist left or from the Islamic radical right, they will pay the price for it.
The Christian religion and the societies and legal systems it produced are responsible for the many privileges we currently enjoy. Already, children born in generation Z in many countries are growing up economically poorer and with higher depression, more loneliness, and a lost sense of identity compared to just 20 years ago.
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blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 04:15 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Before you lean yourself too far outta the window, you might want to read the quoted article...
I understand the article perfectly. Yes, there are nuances to it. Minion simply wanted some data about the retention of children raised in atheist families and I provided it. I graciously chose a secular website to give this information but that apparently went over your head.
As usual, you assume the worst from me and that is why you are such a boring and tiresome person to have a conversation with because anybody talking to you (and it's not just me, it's also people like Sal) has to go back and constantly patch up little holes since you constantly give people the worst possible interpretation instead of the benefit of the doubt. You do the same thing in political threads and frankly it's childish.
You just said an hour ago that you were going to ignore me. Please feel free to do so.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JollyJoker
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posted November 07, 2019 05:18 PM |
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I have no idea what makes you think I wouldn't - except for this clarification; the post you refer to yourself like a child that you still seem to be, is for the one above it. As could be expected.
And just so you know it, in fact I expected better from you.
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artu
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posted November 07, 2019 06:09 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Oh you know, the people who bash on christian religion remind me of the phrase "you stay on the shoulder of a giant while thinking you can fly".
Again, I'm not religious, but I have eyes to see who came from what and what are the results worldwide.
And what are the results worldwide? Look at Latin America or Christian African countries, are they more advanced about anything from, say, Japan? Put aside causality, there isnt even correlation between religion and advancement. The only correlation is in Islam and bigotry.
@bb: This is the conclusion of your own link:
“Since atheism/agnosticism/etc. are gaining ground, that'll mean more parents in the next generation raising their kids without any religion, who'll grow up in a world where it's much more common and acceptable to not believe in God.”
And trolls dont deserve arguments.
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Salamandre
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posted November 07, 2019 06:28 PM |
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yeah, because judeo-christianism originates from Africa. And latinos.
Latinx.
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Blizzardboy
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posted November 07, 2019 06:36 PM |
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Salamandre said:
yeah, because judeo-christianism originates from Africa. And latinos.
Latinx.
This is the quality of the arguments I've been reading from those two for the past 3 pages.
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Salamandre
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posted November 07, 2019 06:38 PM |
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I try to adapt.
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artu
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posted November 07, 2019 06:55 PM |
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Salamandre said:
yeah, because judeo-christianism originates from Africa. And latinos.
Latinx.
It originates from the Middle East, Sal. Not exactly supportive of your logic, eh, Sherlock?
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Neraus
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posted November 07, 2019 07:56 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 20:04, 07 Nov 2019.
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But the Middle East was also quickly turned away from Christianity, being the fertile land of Islam's conquest, the only disproving example of Christianity not leading to development is Ethiopia, which despite being one of the first Christian kingdoms and remained independent for most of its existence never progressed at the same rate as Europe (And if it weren't for the Russians first and the Germans later, they would have been an easy conquest for us, the British fought savages armed with spears and shields organized in clans, we had to face artillery and rifles from a nation that existed for centuries...).
But look at it this way, from the inertial push of Greco-Roman thought and innovation you had the flourishing of innovation accross all the Mediterranean and later Europe, but at one point, the Muslim world stopped keeping the pace, while Christianity continued progressing to the point of ironically harboring and nurturing its own deniers.
But why such an effect wasn't carried over to Latin America then? When the colonies became big enough to be parallel to the European nations the tide was already turning, secular university supplanted religious educational institutions, and unlike in the Middle Ages, sending a son to become a monk wasn't a viable alternative to make him live a better life anymore.
While the rest of the world progressed at their own pace, Europe was just explosive at it, while China and Japan were too advanced nations in their own right, they still lagged behind Europe. Christianity may have not been the catalyst of that, after all, it grew on Greco-Roman soil, but it sure was a religion that could support this type of civilization.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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This thread is pages long: 
