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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 11, 2019 07:23 PM |
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It’s not about one individual’s chance to reproduce I am referring to, but the symbolic statement of “wasting your semen is sin/taboo.” It’s figurative.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 11, 2019 10:33 PM |
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Sure, these ancient, survival-oriented mini societies are known for being figurative and attach a lot of symbolic meaning - that everyone of their educated clientel understands and identifies with.
Please.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 12, 2019 02:12 AM |
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JJ, are you for real? Because myths and legends having symbolic layers is kind of like high-school knowledge. You don’t think that the forbidden fruit story is actually about stealing fruits from a tree, do you, or that griffins are about lions and eagles? The interpretation talks about “wasting the precious fluid that had been designed to perpetuate the human race” and obviously this is not a comment about wasting 5 milliliters of semen but disrespecting the will of god. Why was it considered a sin to masturbate? Because you waste too much semen? And for semen to represent fertility or blood to represent brotherhood or water to represent life or ox to represent strength, etc., you don’t need technical higher education on poetry or surreal iconography. It’s how people have been creating these stories for thousands of years, they associate things with concepts, they make abstractions. When a completely uneducated cannibal from a tribe eats the heart of his enemy from the rival tribe to posses his powers, is he eating the heart because of the nutritive materials in it or is he making an abstraction.
Britannica: "The symbol has a long-established relationship with myth (sacred stories that define the human condition and humanity’s relation to the sacred or holy). Often containing a collection of symbolic forms, actions, expressions, and objects, myths describe gods, demons, men, animals, plants, and material objects that are themselves bearers of symbolical meanings and intentions.
MIT: Myth, Ritual, and Symbolism
ancient-symbols.com: mythological symbols: Different cultures have specific myths to help people understand the mysteries of nature, the reason behind all creation, their own relationship with nature and the essentials of moral conduct. These myths gave rise to a number of symbols that explain these diverse concepts.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2019 07:37 AM |
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"Symbol" is something else entirely than "symbolism".
We have no "symbols" here and there is no symbolism either. We have just a story, told with words. Words are always open to interpretation (which is where this conversation started), and as long as you don't know the author and their intentions, you can interpret as much as you are able to play with the words and find their meaning.
In this case, it's difficult to find sense. From the point of "wasting a fluid", sex with a woman already with child would be the same offense, and if it actually WAS such a grave offense it would have found its way into the Leviticus and law books of the Bible (the death penalty isn't something to take lightly).
I'm a bit perplexed, though, that now it is you, for the sake of the argument, who starts to see hidden meaning in everything like the Cabbalists, when you are usually among those who say, "it's just stories".
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 13, 2019 02:02 PM |
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Yes, they are stories, what I said wasnt that people didint take them for real or the symbolism was there to have some hidden meaning. What I said was too simple not to understand, wasnt it, if in some religious text, “wasting your semen” is presented as bad behavior, it is not actually about wasting the semen itself, semen represents reproduction and the continuation of the people. If I say “dont shed blood” you will understand that I mean “dont be violent” and will not object by saying “what’s the big deal, we can wash it off,” which is kind of what you did above, you took the word semen way too literally when it clearly had a symbolic meaning.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 13, 2019 03:26 PM |
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Sorry, for me this is absurd - both interpretations actually, except if it's meant to be a funny story, a kind of grotesque. It makes as much sense to off a guy because he somehow didn't want to take part in a specific (not general) reproduction process, as it does in your example to cut the throat of a guy who slapped someone, cutting his lip.
For me the story simply doesn't make a lot of sense. But that's nothing stories of the past have a monopoply on. I'm sure, future generation will laugh their asses off at some stuff that is presented today as entertainment.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 06, 2020 08:22 AM |
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John 9:1-5
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted January 06, 2020 08:56 AM |
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To one who said that myths were lies and therefore worthless,
even though "breathed through silver"
PHILOMYTHUS TO MISOMYTHUS
You look at trees and label them just so,
(for trees are `trees', and growing is `to grow');
you walk the earth and tread with solemn pace
one of the many minor globes of Space:
a star's a star, some matter in a ball
compelled to courses mathematical
amid the regimented, cold, Inane,
where destined atoms are each moment slain.
At bidding of a Will, to which we bend
(and must), but only dimly apprehend,
great processes march on, as Time unrolls
from dark beginnings to uncertain goals;
and as on page o'erwitten without clue,
with script and limning packed of various hue,
and endless multitude of forms appear,
some grim, some frail, some beautiful, some queer,
each alien, except as kin from one
remote Origo, gnat, man, stone, and sun.
God made the petreous rocks, the arboreal trees,
tellurian earth, and stellar stars, and these
homuncular men, who walk upon the ground
with nerves that tingle touched by light and sound.
The movements of the sea, the wind in boughs,
green grass, the large slow oddity of cows,
thunder and lightning, birds that wheel and cry,
slime crawling up from mud to live and die,
these each are duly registered and print
the brain's contortions with a separate dint.
Yet trees and not `trees', until so named and seen -
and never were so named, till those had been
who speech's involuted breath unfurled,
faint echo and dim picture of the world,
but neither record nor a photograph,
being divination, judgement, and a laugh,
response of those that felt astir within
by deep monition movements that were kin
to life and death of trees, of beasts, of stars:
free captives undermining shadowy bars,
digging the foreknown from experience
and panning the vein of spirit out of sense.
Great powers they slowly brought out of themselves,
and looking backward they beheld the Elves
that wrought on cunning forges in the mind,
and light and dark on secret looms entwined.
He sees no stars who does not see them first
of living silver made that sudden burst
to flame like flowers beneath the ancient song,
whose very echo after-music long
has since pursued. There is no firmament,
only a void, unless a jewelled tent
myth-woven and elf-patterned; and no earth,
unless the mother's womb whence all have birth.
The heart of man is not compound of lies,
but draws some wisdom from the only Wise,
and still recalls him. Though now long estranged,
man is not wholly lost nor wholly changed.
Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned,
and keeps the rags of lordship one he owned,
his world-dominion by creative act:
not his to worship the great Artefact,
man, sub-creator, the refracted light
through whom is splintered from a single White
to many hues, and endlessly combined
in living shapes that move from mind to mind.
Though all the crannies of the world we filled
with elves and goblins, though we dared to build
gods and their houses out of dark and light,
and sow the seed of dragons, 'twas our right
(used or misused). The right has not decayed.
We make still by the law in which we're made.
Yes! `wish-fulfilment dreams' we spin to cheat
our timid hearts and ugly Fact defeat!
Whence came the wish, and whence the power to dream,
or some things fair and others ugly deem ?
All wishes are not idle, not in vain
fulfilment we devise - for pain is pain,
not for itself to be desired, but ill;
or else to strive or to subdue the will
alike were graceless; and of Evil this
alone is dreadly certain: Evil is.
Blessed are the timid hearts that evil hate,
that quail in its shadow, and yet shut the gate;
that seek no parley, and in guarded room,
through small and bare, upon a clumsy loom
weave rissues gilded by the far-off day
hoped and believed in under Shadow's sway.
Blessed are the men of Noah's race that build
their little arks, though frail and poorly filled,
and steer through winds contrary towards a wraith,
a rumour of a harbour guessed by faith.
Blessed are the legend-makers with their rhyme
of things nor found within record time.
It is not they that have forgot the Night,
or bid us flee to organised delight,
in lotus-isles of economic bliss
forswearing souls to gain a Circe-kiss
(and counterfeit at that, machine-produced,
bogus seduction of the twice-seduced).
Such isles they saw afar, and ones more fair,
and those that hear them yet may yet beware.
They have seen Death and ultimate defeat,
and yet they would not in despair retreat,
but oft to victory have turned the lyre
and kindled hearts with legendary fire,
illuminating Now and dark Hath-been
with light of suns as yet by no man seen.
I would that I might with the minstrels sing
and stir the unseen with a throbbing string.
I would be with the mariners of the deep
that cut their slender planks on mountains steep
and voyage upon a vague and wandering quest,
for some have passed beyond the fabled West.
I would with the beleaguered fools be told,
that keep an inner fastness where their gold,
impure and scanty, yet they loyally bring
to mint in image blurred of distant king,
or in fantastic banners weave the sheen
heraldic emblems of a lord unseen.
I will not walk with your progressive apes,
erect and sapient. Before them gapes
the dark abyss to which their progress tends -
if by God's mercy progress ever ends,
and does not ceaselessly revolve the same
unfruitful course with changing of a name.
I will not treat your dusty path and flat,
denoting this and that by this and that,
your world immutable wherein no part
the little maker has with maker's art.
I bow not yet before the Iron Crown,
nor cast my own small golden sceptre down.
In Paradise perchance the eye may stray
from gazing upon everlasting Day
to see the day-illumined, and renew
from mirrored truth the likeness of the True.
Then looking on the Blessed Land 'twill see
that all is as it is, and yet may free:
.
Salvation changes not, nor yet destroys,
garden not gardener, children not their toys.
Evil it will not see, for evil lies
not in God's picture but in crooked eyes,
not in the source but in the tuneless voice.
In Paradise they look no more awry;
and though they make anew, they make no lie.
Be sure they still will make, not been dead,
and poets shall have flames upon their head,
and harps whereon their faultless fingers fall:
there each shall choose for ever from the All.
..
JRR Tolkien
Mythopeia
...
Yes people have their myths and symbols. But m&s have no own sense inside them.
What is the sense them all? This question was genially decrypted by... JRR Tolkien! Yes! This man in spiritually father of Might and Magic too! Without him probably we have no one of these games.
People searching spiritual true using myths. And this True exist! This is God!
Only one true myth. Evangelion is only true myth. Which is target all people of the world if they have good will. This is the solution.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 08, 2020 04:17 PM |
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A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
- C.S. Lewis
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 25, 2020 01:54 PM |
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Matthew 18:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted February 06, 2020 05:48 PM |
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I really really recommend:
Learn the Bible in 24 Hours
If you interested in Physics, Biology, Archeology, History...
Hey you might even discover God if you wan to...find out is HE really Out there(or here)
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 29, 2020 11:50 AM |
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Luke 9:23-24 (NIV) Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 09, 2020 05:34 PM |
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What is sin? The word of God. God expressed the word.
When Eve ate the fruit, and later Adam. Ok we look at the Bible together.
Genesis 2:17
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Genesis 3:17-19
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
Romans 5:12
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—"
So God took life eternally away from man. I call the word sin means wrong. Do you agree or do you have an idea?
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 09, 2020 05:55 PM |
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Death is only for body not for spirit. First Gods plan is that after life in paradise man will be sleep as you read that adam slept and through this his spirit will go to haeven. But they eat this friut and daeth come to aarth. And all pain. In fac earth is wasteland and here living wasted people. Church is spiritual hospital.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 09, 2020 06:29 PM |
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Thanks! Interesting information. Therefore, I know that the only Jehovah's witnesses who teach Ezekiel 18:4 reads “Behold, all Souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who Sins shall die." I asked the deaf priest. He said so. But couldn't give an explanation. So you get to tell us what you think too Baronus.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 09, 2020 08:01 PM |
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Souls means often person eg. Gogol and his Died souls.
So
In this case it means:
“Behold, all persons are Mine; person of the father As well as the person of the son is Mine; The person who Sins shall die."
It means go to hell of course. Soul is immortal!
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 09, 2020 08:42 PM |
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Our Lutheranism doesn't teach and use Ezekiel 18:4. You, Baronus  But we agree sin makes death. If you want to know more about sin, maybe we help you in this thread.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 09, 2020 09:09 PM |
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Baronus said:
Soul is immortal!
No.  The immortal soul is not from the Bible. If we do some research...
Clicky
The Hebrew word most often translated into English as “soul” in the Bible is nephesh. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible succinctly defines this word as meaning “a breathing creature.” When used in the Bible, nephesh does not mean a spirit entity or the spirit within a person. Rather, it usually means a physical, living, breathing creature. Occasionally it conveys a related meaning such as breath, life or person.
Surprising to many, this term nephesh is used to refer not just to human beings, but also to animals. For example, notice the account of the creation of sea life: “And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good” (Genesis 1:21, King James Version). The Hebrew word translated “creature” in this verse is nephesh. In the biblical account, these particular “souls,” creatures of the sea, were made before the first human beings were formed and given life.
The term is also applied to birds (Genesis 1:30) and land animals, including cattle and “creeping” creatures such as reptiles and insects (Genesis 1:24). It follows, then, if we make an argument for man possessing an immortal soul, animals must also have an immortal soul, since the same Hebrew word is used of man and animal alike. Yet no biblical scholars would seriously make such claims for animals. The truth is, the term soul refers to any living creature, whether man or beast—not to some separate, living essence temporarily inhabiting the body.
In the Old Testament, man is referred to as a “soul” (Hebrew nephesh) more than 130 times. The first place we find nephesh in reference to mankind is in the second chapter of Genesis: “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7, KJV).
The word translated “soul” in this verse is again the Hebrew word nephesh. Other translations of the Bible state that man became a living “being” or “person.” This verse does not say that Adam had an immortal soul; rather it says that God breathed into Adam the “breath of life,” and Adam became a living soul. At the end of his days, when the breath of life left Adam, he died and returned to dust.
The Old Testament plainly teaches that the soul dies. God told Adam and Eve, two “living souls,” that they would “surely die” if they disobeyed Him (Genesis 2:17). God also told Adam that He had taken him from the dust of the earth and he would return to dust (Genesis 3:19).
Among the plainer statements in the Bible about what happens to the soul at death are Ezekiel 18:4 and 18:20. Both passages clearly state that “the soul who sins shall die.” Again, the word for “soul” here is nephesh. In fact, this same word was even used of corpses—dead bodies (see Leviticus 22:4; Numbers 5:2; Numbers 6:11; Numbers 9:6-10).
Not only do all these scriptures show that the soul indeed can and does die, but the soul is identified as a physical being—not a separate spirit entity with existence independent of its physical host.
The Scriptures tell us that the dead have no consciousness: “For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing” (Ecclesiastes 9:5). They are not conscious in some other state or place (see “Jesus Christ and Biblical Writers Compare Death to Sleep”).
The New Testament teaching
The New Testament contains several statements confirming that the wicked who refuse to repent will die—permanently. In Matthew 7:13-14, in exhorting His disciples to choose the way that leads to life, Jesus states that the end of those who do not choose life is destruction. He contrasts that path with the way of righteousness, telling us, “Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
Jesus, moreover, made it quite clear that utter destruction includes both “soul and body” (Matthew 10:28), the Greek word for “soul” (psyche or psuche) referring to physical, conscious existence (see “Do Some Bible Verses Teach We Have an Immortal Soul?” begining on page 8).
The apostle Paul also stated that the wicked will die. In Romans 6:20-21 he talks about those who were slaves of sin and says that for them “the end of those things is death.” So those who are slaves of sin, who habitually commit sin, can perish completely. Yet many attempt to redefine death here and in other scriptural passages to mean merely separation from God.
Romans 6:23 is one of the best-known verses of the Bible. It plainly states, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Again, people will argue that death here means an eternal life of separation from God. Note, however, that death here is directly contrasted with eternal life. How, then, can death involve eternal existence through an immortal soul?
This verse plainly tells us two crucial truths. First, the punishment of the wicked is death, utter cessation of life, not a life of eternal suffering in another place (see also Philippians 3:18-19; 2 Thessalonians 1:9). Second, we do not already have eternal life through a supposed immortal soul. Eternal life is something God must give us through our Savior, Jesus the Messiah. In 1 Timothy 6:16 Paul also tells us that God alone has immortality.
Paul makes a similar statement in Galatians 6:8: “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life” (NIV). This tells us what happens to unrepentant sinners. Eventually they will reap destruction, referring to wasting away and perishing, but those who repent and obey God will ultimately receive eternal life.
So is man an immortal soul? No. Does he have an immortal soul? No. The Bible declares plainly that man is temporary, of the dust of the earth. There is no immortal quality about man at all—unless and until he receives it from God through a resurrection, which means being brought back to life in a body, raised from the dead as Jesus was.
The Bible clearly states that man puts on immortality at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:50-54), not at the end of his physical life. Until that time man has no more permanence than animals.
Nor does man have some spiritual soul with conscious awareness independent of the physical body. This has been proven time and time again when individuals have gone into comas for weeks, months and sometimes years at a time, only to emerge from that comatose state with no memory or recollection of the passage of time.
If one had a soul that existed independently of the human body, wouldn’t that soul have some memory of remaining aware during the months or years the body was unconscious? That would be powerful and logical proof of the existence of an independent soul within the human body—yet no one has ever reported any such thing, in spite of thousands of such occurrences.
This fact likewise supports what the Bible teaches—that consciousness ceases at death. Only through a resurrection to life will consciousness return.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 09, 2020 09:21 PM |
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DD must get QP. DD hasn't told of his idea.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 09, 2020 09:25 PM |
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Thanks, Ghost, but it's not really "my idea", as you can see I quoted the article and it's something that I came to believe in myself after careful studying of the Scriptures. I'm certainly not the first to do so.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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This thread is pages long: 
