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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 09, 2020 09:28 PM |
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Good DD.  I hope MOD reads this thread and give you QP, what I recommend.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 09, 2020 09:40 PM |
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Its only language question. What you mean as soul? Ancient philosophers told about plant spirit animal spirit human spirit.
In christian sense human spirit is immortal.
Wisdom
Bible said that :
And this is the false argument they use, 'Our life is short and dreary, there is no remedy when our end
comes, no one is known to have come back from Hades.
We came into being by chance and afterwards shall be as though we had never been. The breath in
our nostrils is a puff of smoke, reason a spark from the beating of our hearts;
extinguish this and the body turns to ashes, and the spirit melts away like the yielding air.
etc.
For God created human beings to be immortal, He made them as an image of His own nature;
Death came into the world only through the Devil's envy, as those who belong to him find to their
cost.
...
Red in Bible.
Yes in heaven existing souls without bodies. At the end of world will be bodies ressurection.
Human soul cant be mortal because have a piece of God inside (He made them as an image of His own nature) so it would mean that ,god is mortal' (small letters because heresy). Absolutly nonsense.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 09, 2020 09:59 PM |
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I respect your point of view, Baronus, however the Book of Wisdom of Solomon is not Biblical canon, it's a deuterocanonical work at best. So you need to use an apocryphal book to support your view because in the Bible itself there is no proof for an immortal soul.
The Bible plainly says that God alone is immortal. (1 Timothy 6:16) Humans need to "put on immortality". (1 Cor. 15:53), yes, but not through some "immortal soul" that exists separate from the body. This is not Biblical.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2020 01:51 AM |
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One thing on my to-do list, is read/procure copies of the old testament, new testament, quran, talmud, kabbalah, etc.
I keep seeing religious text references online, and i want to be able to immediately verify them.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 10, 2020 12:22 PM |
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Fred. Of course search truth if you are completly far of religion. But only christianity is scientifical religion veryfied by logic. Rest are only fideist. Believe and dont check.
Difference between soul and spirit:
Soul and spirit
I unerstand you dont respect parts of Bible.
But in Genesis is the same.
Genesis
God said, 'Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves,
God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he
created them.
Image of God repeat 3 times. God is spirit and immortal so people spirit is immortal. But eg. animal IS NOT a image! Only creation!
Next you have:
Yahweh God shaped man from the soil of the ground and blew the breath of life into his nostrils, and
man became a living being.
BREATH OF LIFE! Its not life we think. Animals plants dont have "breath of life"! Because its spiritual life! Gods piece inside man!
All Bible is the same!
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2020 12:33 PM |
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Baronus said:
Fred. Of course search truth if you are completly far of religion. But only christianity is scientifical religion veryfied by logic. Rest are only fideist. Believe and dont check.
Thanks, but i tend to think for myself.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 10, 2020 12:48 PM |
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Baronus, I believe that the human is made in the image of God but NOT inherently immortal unless granted eternal life by God, and I already argumented.
If you want more, then fine: The body returns to dust and the breath of life returns to God. That's it. When you're dead, you're just, well, dead. The dead know nothing.
If humans were really immortal through this "soul", then what is the meaning of "death" to you? "You shall not surely die", that's what the serpent said, not God. And you seem to believe the serpent's words.
And then, what would be the point of a resurrection if we're all "immortal" souls anyway?  What's the point of believers being rewarded with "eternal life" if we already had it?
Immortal souls come from other religions and the belief infiltrated mainstream Christianity.
If you would rather believe it anyway, I respect that. I won't discuss further.
@fred
At least for the Bible i know there are plenty of websites where you can read all the material in just about every translation.
I assume there have to be similar sources for other texts.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2020 01:16 PM |
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The whole point of going through the texts myself is to verify what's online.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 11, 2020 10:25 PM |
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Death is only for material sphere. Spirit is immortal. Angels as only spirits are immortal. The same people spirit.
Death means eg. in apocalypse going to hell. Its death of spirit but not in sense that they dont exsisting. They living but in hell.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 12, 2020 06:25 PM |
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Excellent!
Yeah Mormon says Hell is a temporary place of punishment. When a person begins to believe in God. He acquits himself from punishment. But Satan remains in prison because it is difficult for Satan to accept God. There is a lot of persecution in punishment so Satan returns to the way of God. When does the punishment take place? With the coming of Jesus. People and demons go to jail.
Of the dead soul, I don't now remember the place of the Bible about Mormon. Later shows the Bible in places. Now I'm at my mother's.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 13, 2020 11:07 AM |
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@Baronus
And what is your proof from the Bible that humans have an immortal spirit or soul or whatever?
Still waiting.
Okay, in the meantime I have more: Death is likened to SLEEP... Jesus did not say "Lazarus went to heaven/hell" when he brought him back from the dead... He first said Lazarus is sleeping, and then he told the disciples plainly: "Lazarus is DEAD."
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 16, 2020 11:17 AM |
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I think Baronus lost debate. But this thread isn't debate but talking about Christianity. Ok I return home on Sunday and I bring paradise subject. Perhaps you know Jehovah's witnesses believe in paradise. But Pentecostalism and Lutheranism believe in too paradise. How? - or maybe you know about paradise. You can begin a paradise.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 16, 2020 01:55 PM |
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Sure. In my opinion upon studying the Bible, humans do not "go" to a place of reward when they die, but rather the Kingdom of God is to come on Earth (as in the prayer, Thy kingdom come)...
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven - Jesus in the Gospel of John, 3:13
The 'Lord's Prayer' asks for God's Kingdom to come (i.e. praying for the return of Christ), whereby God's desires will be done on earth as they are now done in heaven (Matt. 6:10). We are therefore praying for God's Kingdom to come on the earth. It is a tragedy that thousands of people thoughtlessly pray these words each day whilst still believing that God's Kingdom is now already fully established in heaven, and that the earth will be destroyed.
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth" (Matt. 5:5) - not '...for their souls shall go to heaven'. This is alluding to Psalm 37, the whole of which emphasizes that the final reward of the righteous will be upon the earth. In the very same location that the wicked had enjoyed their temporary supremacy, the righteous will be recompensed with eternal life, and possess this same earth that the wicked once dominated (Ps. 37:34,35). "The meek shall inherit the earth...Such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth...The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever" (Ps. 37:11,22,29). Living in the earth/promised land for ever means that eternal life in heaven is an impossibility.
"David...is both dead and buried...David is not ascended into the heavens" (Acts 2:29,34). Instead, Peter explained that his hope was the resurrection from the dead at Christ's return (Acts 2:22-36).
Earth is the arena of God's operations with mankind: "Heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's, but the earth hath He given to the children of men" (Ps. 115:16).
Rev. 5:9,10 relates a vision of what the righteous will say when they are accepted at the judgment seat: "(Christ) hath made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth". This picture of ruling in God's Kingdom on earth is quite removed from the vague conception that we will enjoy 'bliss' somewhere in heaven.
The prophecies of Daniel chapters 2 and 7 outline a succession of political powers, which would finally be superseded by the Kingdom of God at Christ's return. The dominion of this Kingdom would be "under the whole heaven", and would fill "the whole earth" (Dan. 7:27; 2:35 cp. v. 44). This everlasting Kingdom "shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High" (Dan. 7:27); their reward is therefore eternal life in this Kingdom which is to be located on earth, under the heavens.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 16, 2020 02:16 PM |
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And for anyone else who is genuinely interested in this, I suggest that you start here.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 20, 2020 11:38 AM |
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Excellent DD. So I add to
Isaiah 45:18 NIV
"For this is what the Lord says—
he who created the heavens,
he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth,
he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty,
but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:
“I am the Lord,
and there is no other."
Psalms 37:29 NIV
"The righteous will inherit the land
and dwell in it forever."
Psalms 37:11 NIV
"But the meek will inherit the land
and enjoy peace and prosperity."
Isaiah 65:21-24 NIV
"They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear."
Ok I can't add to Mormon's the dead soul, when deep.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 20, 2020 02:45 PM |
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Mormons has own book so they can believe what they want. In Bible there is no escape from hell.
I give you Genesis. I can give you other. Eg.
Mathew 10.28
'Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; fear him rather who can destroy both body and soul in hell.
...
CANNOT KILL THE SOUL.
Cleary.
Lazarus case is not about immortal spirit but its for people that they may believe that God sent Son.
John 11.42
I myself knew that You hear Me always, but I speak for the sake of all these who are standing around me, so that they may believe it was You who sent Me.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 20, 2020 03:02 PM |
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Matthew 10:28 says, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
The word “soul” in this context implies “the capacity to live.” That is, another human being may be able to take away our life, but we still have the capacity to live again. God can always bring us back to life in the resurrection. So, though we naturally fear people who can cause our physical death, Jesus was giving us the true, eternal perspective. We should not fear man, but God.
Why? God has the authority to deny bringing us back to life—destroying the capacity to live ever again. “Hell” in this verse refers to the gehenna garbage heap fire burning in the valley outside of Jerusalem. It’s symbolic of what the Bible calls “the lake of fire.” If we die “the second death” in the lake of fire, there remains no hope of a resurrection (Revelation 21:8).
If we fear—reverence and obey—God, we don’t need to fear men.
Anyway, Baronus. This isn't going anywhere. You believe what you want, and I'll do the same. I think I've said enough about the soul and it certainly is not immortal.
@Ghost: Good verses! 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 20, 2020 03:28 PM |
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Ok I know Matthew 10:28, because Jehovah's witnesses who taught Satan goes devastation. Other religions I don't know about Matthew 10:28. I must ask deaf priest. He's my guy. But excellent. Remember that we can't authenticate religion correctly. So I don't condemn Mormon or your religion also DD performed superbly.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 20, 2020 06:59 PM |
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Ok I take easy. What Mormon says the dead soul?
Job 34:15 NIV
"all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust."
Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV
"and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it."
I must read more it, Baronus.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 21, 2020 12:10 AM |
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Edited by Baronus at 00:29, 21 Jul 2020.
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Baronus
The word “soul” in this context implies “the capacity to live.” That is, another human being may be able to take away our life, but we still have the capacity to live again. God can always bring us back to life in the resurrection.
...
There is nothing like this! Its your invention.
Simply understanding this is that if you are killed you lost body but you never lost soul! Because soul is immortal. God can ressurect your BODY! So its only body ressurection! As Church teach. Its not mine ;0)))
If in death you lost body and soul this scrap lost sense! You have no citation in whole Bible that God ressurect youd dead soul!
Thanks Ghost
Job 34.15 all flesh would instantly perish and all people would return to dust.
FLESH so body never spirit!
Eccl 12.7
the dust returns to the earth from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it
Very good! dust to earth because is mortal spirit to God because is immortal.
So you see two different parts of human. Mortal and immortal.
All Bible is the same!
Jehovits?
Here you have best world specialist this sect. He knows his papers and have it in head!
jehovits
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