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| Thread: This is for gender ambiguity |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 17, 2016 01:47 AM |
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Technically, the tiger one was a male human.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 17, 2016 01:52 AM |
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fred, do I really have to tell you why your analogy is completely flawed? These are just eccentric people having fun or simply wearing costumes, you dont have lizard hormones in your body but you do have oestrogen. People dont get prosecuted for acting all too mummy-like in theocratic dictatorships and if they did they'd quit in a second.
Let me give you a real example, we have a transexual singer, who with an operation became a woman. Now, there are movies from his early days, when he was trying to hide his transgender tendencies, even trying to act all macho as tha male lead of the movie but when you watch him, it is obvious that he has a woman in her, it's not that he's trying to push this as an agenda, the movies are from 1970's Turkey, such a thing could have ended his career. It's not the same with being gay and "acting with feminine mannerisms" either, you look at him, and you see a woman.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 17, 2016 01:54 AM |
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fred79 said:
sorry dude. plumbing's plumbing.
And here I thought you were more sexually liberal than most, given your inclination to use sexual innuendo in a lot of your posts.
The human brain has as much to do with sexual behaviour and desires as the genitals themselves. If the brain has developed differently due to a flaw in the DNA code, or due to hormonal influences while still in the womb (for instance, a correlation exists between the chance of being born gay as a man, based on the number of elder brothers he has from the same mother), or whatever doesn't matter; the only thing that counts is that the part of the brain that holds the sexual identity, as Artu points out, has been formed differently from what is "socially acceptable" for people who only think of "man" and "woman", where being straight is very much implied.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 17, 2016 01:59 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 01:59, 17 Nov 2016.
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Let's PAUSE for a second as I remind everyone that calling people dumbasses, either as individuals or groups, is against the rules here. Diseased or not, delusional or not, against your personal moral code or not: let's try to at least be respectful.
And just for the record, the only mutilation that's gonna happen here is me mutilating red star counts if everyone doesn't behave. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 02:17 AM |
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Maurice said:
fred79 said:
sorry dude. plumbing's plumbing.
And here I thought you were more sexually liberal than most, given your inclination to use sexual innuendo in a lot of your posts.
that's different. i don't give a hoot who snows what, but i have a problem with people who delude themselves, and not only that, but insist that others SHARE their delusion(like a pushy christian would). i cannot see someone who is a man, thinking they're a woman and INSISTING that others call them a woman, as someone who isn't delusional. just because so many people jump on the my-gender-is-whatever-i-say-it-is bandwagon, that's not going to change my mind in the slightest. if your dna produced you as a male, then "the level of chemicals in your body producing someone who feels other than their sex", is MOOT. because they were BORN a man, they CANNOT BE a woman. i mean seriously, how would the balance of chemicals even be an issue, when they were born with a certain sexual organ? how do the level of chemicals in an individual's body even matter when dna produced a certain sex? maybe a hermaphrodite might have a legitimate reason to think that they're a different sex(or have the option to choose between the two, or a variance thereof), but someone who was born with ONE sexual organ, doesn't have that privilege(for lack of a better term).
@ cor: i'm actually trying to play nice, believe it or not.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 17, 2016 02:35 AM |
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People get tired of having to turn their tongue 35 times before speaking to another individual, because anything could hurt him, from sexuality and gender then up to religion or race. We live in a world where we have to protect ourselves, and this will not change, despite lobbies tantrums and pushovers. More you will seek for "equality" in your intimate aspects, less you will get, because people just don't care and don't want to get involved.
If there are sensitive subjects to you -as your sexuality or other, don't pull them out every time you meet someone then you will be fine. Learn the social interactions boundaries, where intimate things are shared with intimate friends then all else is and polite talk.
As for getting a special pronoun from every person you meet and who will make the "terrible mistake" to call you on what visually matches a gender, thus giving you a reason to aggress this person and whine about being discriminated, only a goofy and a no lifer could pretend he is right to act that way.
I hope this world will never see the light, where people are trying to get respected on their characteristics and not on their actions.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 17, 2016 02:48 AM |
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In most cases, you will spontaneously call a transgender person "she" anyway, it's not like they are acting, they mostly appear like they are female, look at this video for example, I just randomly picked, even at the parts when she is 6 years old, she appears as female. If I meet this person on the street, I won't realize she has a penis: Link
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 17, 2016 03:11 AM |
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Heh I just love when people who have no clue weigh in on a subject. "Oh I've never been female, but here is how you should handle your period." Yep, we should all play by YOUR rules, I mean hey we are not all individuals, we should just bow to your 'wisdom' and do things your way. :sarcasm:
Here is some facts that might just blow your mind. We all start out as female in the womb. So.. by your own logic there should only ever be females .. right?? It is not until later that testosterone changes SOME into men. So you while you are born male or female, you start out life as female. Every single person on earth. Every single person who has been on earth, is on earth, or will ever be on earth.. starts out as female. So anybody who doesn't think they are female is delusional??? Or living a lie??? After all, we can't change who we start out life as.. right?? Just because testosterone enters the picture later (I believe it is 60 days), changes nothing... by your logic.
Do you know what a person has to go through for gender reassignment surgery? At least from legitimate sources? You have to be very dedicated, under go years of therapy, everybody around you either turns to either hate or confusion.. and you tend to lose all but a very few who are mentally strong enough to handle things. Some people minds are hardwired one way, while their bodies are hardwired another. Its not a choice, its not a delusion, its not a lie.. it is who they are. Most don't just wake up one day and say "Hey I think I will alienate everybody I know, and be the opposite gender today." It is not a disease, no more then being a man who thinks they are a man is. When did you 'choose' to be male (if you are), when did you 'choose' to be female (if you are).. you didn't .. any more then the person whose body is hardwired female and brain is hardwired male chose to be that way. They just are.
Now I don't give a rats behind what you call me. I've been called worse, trust me. I don't care if you like or accept me. You don't have to watch what you say around me, because I KNOW people don't understand.. no more then i can understand being hardwired the same way in both mind and body. Gender is a stone age concept.. not all guys like cars, are mechanically inclined, or any other gender stereotype. Not all females weary frilly dresses, are nurturers or play with dolls. Time to come into 2016.. unless.. the person doth protest too much
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Message received.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 04:56 AM |
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what people like to do is one thing. what they ARE is something else. if you have the plumbing of a male, that means that you were supposed to be a male. if you have the plumbing of a female, then that means you were supposed to be a female. period. i'm not going to bother trying to see rationality in a way someone thinks, if they can't rationalize that simple fact. you said so yourself, mytical: if someone gets enough testosterone, then that means they become male, with male plumbing. if they don't they stay female, with female plumbing. so there it is. either way it's put, i'm right. just because i forgot how people begin, doesn't mean i don't understand the outcome of what they ARE. it is the people who are confused with their identity, that do not understand. i am not confused.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 17, 2016 05:29 AM |
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Actually wrong .. again. Everybody has testosterone, everybody has estrogen.. just in different amounts. So your argument is moot. Also, did you know that part of gender reassignment is taking either testosterone or estrogen? Now add in that both are available as medicine, again your argument is flawed. People are not confused with the plumbing, that is your hangup, not theirs. It is about who they are, not what plumbing they have. It would be like your name being bob, but everytime somebody talked to you they called you gary. No matter how many times you explain to them your name is Bob, they keep calling you Gary...
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Message received.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 07:24 AM |
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what we have here is, a failure to communicate.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 17, 2016 08:26 AM |
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I am just trying to educate, as I've been down the road.. I've done the research.. and I've heard it all before. I understand your thoughts, and will never say you are not entitled to them. I don't know you, and do not presume to demand you think like I do. I have not even begin to cover the tip of the iceberg in a very big iceberg. Gender is not binary.. either a 1 or 0.. it is fluid.. the plumbing is binary, I won't argue it's not.. but there is a lot more to gender then plumbing. Males who are born with more estrogen then testosterone, females who are born with more testosterone then estrogen.
To understand gender, you have to understand sexuality, and that is another huge subject. Everything from people who are not interested in sex at all in any form, to people who can't get enough of it. Has nothing to do with what plumbing you are born with. I am trying to explain that with the information that not only were you created female, have estrogen inside of you, but that your identity can be hardwired one way, while physically you are hardwired another. People don't 'choose' to be straight or male or female... why is it they have to 'choose' to be another sexuality or to be the opposite gender then the plumbing they are born with? That is a double standard.
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Message received.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted November 17, 2016 08:42 AM |
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What an amusing thread.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 09:39 AM |
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Mytical said:
Males who are born with more estrogen then testosterone, females who are born with more testosterone then estrogen.
this doesn't compute. by your own explanation, both are impossible. a male cannot be born with more estrogen than testosterone, because he would then be female. a female who was born with more testosterone than estrogen, would then be male. you're sending mixed signals here.
Mytical said:
To understand gender, you have to understand sexuality, and that is another huge subject. Everything from people who are not interested in sex at all in any form, to people who can't get enough of it. Has nothing to do with what plumbing you are born with. I am trying to explain that with the information that not only were you created female, have estrogen inside of you, but that your identity can be hardwired one way, while physically you are hardwired another. People don't 'choose' to be straight or male or female... why is it they have to 'choose' to be another sexuality or to be the opposite gender then the plumbing they are born with? That is a double standard.
so where does environment and psychology come into play? are you saying they aren't factors in how an individual chooses? i never said anyone had to "choose" a sexuality; although there are many factors that will guide someone one way or the other(or both ways, or left ways or right ways or up ways or down ways or crooked ways or spiral ways or whatever). if someone doesn't "choose" to be a certain sex, then why do you see people having sex changes? having a sex change is a choice, and you don't naturally see it in humans(sometimes in nature, but it's rare). but i'm drifting. back to the point: too many people delude themselves. this subject is just another way they do it. they'll convince themselves of anything and everything, just to not have to face reality(be it ever so cold and harsh, lol).
i don't think we're going to understand one another, no matter how many times we try to get our point across. we may have to agree to disagree, for the sake of both of our time. i have better things to do, than argue a point that isn't going to be gotten because of some psychological barrier. if i gave you some acid, then maybe we could break through that barrier. but i don't have the drugs or the desire to meet up with you and iron our differences on the subject, out.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 17, 2016 10:25 AM |
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fred79 said:
Mytical said:
Males who are born with more estrogen then testosterone, females who are born with more testosterone then estrogen.
this doesn't compute. by your own explanation, both are impossible. a male cannot be born with more estrogen than testosterone, because he would then be female. a female who was born with more testosterone than estrogen, would then be male. you're sending mixed signals here..
Actually, his own explanation is perfectly compatible with this. Although born with male genitelia (so being anatomically a man) some people have much higher estrogen levels than a regular man has, hence they feel like a woman. This is usually diagnosed in very early ages, when they wont be bothering to delude themselves with anything, mind you.
Everybody who had already read about this will tell you the same thing, it is anatomy that is binary not gender.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted November 17, 2016 10:32 AM |
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Quote:
Actually, his own explanation is perfectly compatible with this. Although born with male genitelia (so being anatomically a man) some people have much higher estrogen levels than a regular man has, hence they feel like a woman. This is usually diagnosed in very early ages, when they wont be bothering to delude themselves with anything, mind you.
It's called a disease.
Quote:
When your body’s estrogen and testosterone levels aren’t in sync, you may begin developing certain symptoms. Symptoms of high estrogen include:
bloating
swelling and tenderness in the breasts
decreased sex drive
irregular menstrual periods
headaches
mood swings
fibrocystic developments in the breast
weight gain
hair loss
cold hands or feet
feeling tired or lacking energy
difficulty with memory
trouble sleeping
increased symptoms of premenstrual syndrome or PMS
Quote:
Although it’s called the female hormone, a man’s body also makes estrogen, just at lower levels. Men may begin to experience unusual symptoms if their estrogen levels increase significantly. Symptoms of high estrogen in men include:
Infertility. Estrogen is partly responsible for creating healthy sperm. When estrogen levels are high, sperm levels in semen may fall. This can lead to fertility issues.
Gynecomastia. Estrogen may stimulate breast tissue growth. Men with too much estrogen may start developing larger breasts.
Erectile dysfunction. A balance of both testosterone and estrogen is important for healthy sexual growth and development. Sexual function may be impacted when these hormones become imbalanced. Men with high levels of estrogen may have difficulty getting or maintaining an erection.
Quote:
High levels of estrogen can put you at a higher risk for other conditions. For example, elevated estrogen levels are a risk factor for breast cancer. According to the National Cancer Institute, high levels of estrogen over a long period of time can also cause endometrial cancer.
If you’re experiencing unusual symptoms, make an appointment to see your doctor. Your doctor can determine whether these symptoms are caused by high estrogen. It’s important to effectively treat high estrogen and any underlying cause. You’ll experience fewer symptoms and reduce your risk for related conditions.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 17, 2016 10:37 AM |
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Mytical is right on the money.
Stevie, AlHazin, LW, Fred. Your understanding of the subject is woefully inadequate and your attitudes are exactly what leads to the rampant harassment and assault of transgendered and in return the leading cause of the high suicide and self-harm rates.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 17, 2016 10:41 AM |
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Lizzy, it's a condition and may have undesirable side effects at certain points but "not being a regular heterosexual man" is certainly not a disease and even if you insist to call it a disease, some people are born like that and the only thing that gives them peace is to act as the gender they naturally feel they are (just like the way you feel like a hetero man), so there is no reason to prevent this from happening.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted November 17, 2016 10:42 AM |
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If the big mass deems something as awkward or odd, then it is awkward or odd. Such is the way human societies have always worked.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 10:49 AM |
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@ artu: mytical posted that levels of testosterone produce males, while a lack thereof(or estrogen), produces females. so no, it does not compute with what i quoted.
@ kiryu: i never attacked anyone described here, so your argument is moot; and moreover, accusatory. you can't paint somebody to be mean or violent, just because they don't agree with your delusion. but that's a tactic that people like you use; i see it all the time. demonizing your opposition. notice, that i never demonized anyone in my arguments on this subject. i'm only saying that they're wrong, and that they're more wrong, when they try to change reality in order to convince others of their beliefs. which they effectively do, under the guise of "equality". nobody wants to be seen as "intolerant", so bogus claimers get away with just about anything. even murder, sometimes.
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