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| Thread: This is for gender ambiguity |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted November 17, 2016 10:49 AM |
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Oxford Dictionary said:
disease
noun
1.A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury:
So, it's a disorder because of the unequal levels of hormones. It's a disorder of a structure because hormones affect the reproductive system. Having unusual hormone levels also has negative effects as I quoted in my the previous post. Also diseases can be genetic too, you can be born with them, they aren't necessarily caused by a pathogen agent, but can also be caused by errors in the gene code. No matter how much you want to play with semantics, a disequilibrium of hormones is a disease.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted November 17, 2016 10:56 AM |
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Fred79, I normally do not have a lot of conversations with you here on this forum, but I must say that you scored a headshot with your last phrase in your post here.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 17, 2016 11:13 AM |
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Edited by artu at 11:15, 17 Nov 2016.
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@fred: yes, within the context of male and female gender. in the other sentence, he is referring to having male genitelia.
@lizzard
I never said you cant be born with a disease but saying it is a disease because it affects the reproductive system is just beside the point. Peolple dont have an issue with transgenders because they cant have babies or they have this or that symptom in their body, which transgender people will deal with themselves anyway. Such issues dont make transgenders say, oh I must get a cure and transform into a hetero, they, if given the chance, are in peace with their identity. Because while enlisting all of the above that is the part you ignore, it is not just a condition about your bodily functions but an identity, it determines what you see yourself as, and that is the part that causes the stigma not the dysfunctions in the reproductive system or this and that. So, that is just something you cherry-pick to call it a disease. but your actual motive is to be able to call it a disease. In the third page, I already wrote why some are so eager to do that.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 17, 2016 12:15 PM |
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So I leave for a few days and this is what happens. 
Honestly, if you tag along with another human being does it really matter how you have to call him/her?
On the other hand, if you're feeling uncomfortable about it it does not make you a homophobe/nazi/responsible for suicides either... Tolerance goes both ways.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted November 17, 2016 12:28 PM |
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Quote:
call him/her
I call them it, since I only breed with livestock I don't really care what gender it identifies as.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Ereinion156
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 01:23 PM |
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Galaad said:
Tolerance goes both ways.
I think that's the best thing to say here!
Actually if one side of an argument doesn't tolerate the other one, the second one may find it just to do the same. So, actually both sides must be tolerant in order to see any tolerance.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 17, 2016 01:25 PM |
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It's not intolerance to not tolerate intolerance.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 17, 2016 01:35 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 13:35, 17 Nov 2016.
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kiryu133 said:
It's not intolerance to not tolerate intolerance.
On a tangent, that's what seems to plague Europe the last few years: way too much tolerance for intolerant groups within our society. And in those cases, the age-old saying goes, "pardon one offense and you invite the application of many".
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 17, 2016 03:23 PM |
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@Fred Just because you have the delusion that you get to decide how somebody IS, when you have no experience.. have not done the research .. and are not that person does not mean everybody else has to share that delusion
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Message received.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 17, 2016 03:27 PM |
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In my opinion people are allowed to be as intolerant as they wish as long as that intolerance doesn't manifest itself in a harmful way towards others.
That is why it may be so tricky with e.g. politicians who try to become popular through semi-hate-speech or refugees who have very different ideas than us and are to live safely and freely among us.
We accept that these people exist, because we are better than what they present, but we must also make them understand that they have to be good people and do things (or rather not do things) they disagree with.
Galaad said:
Honestly, if you tag along with another human being does it really matter how you have to call him/her?
I'll call you my precious then. 
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted November 17, 2016 03:31 PM |
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Edited by AlHazin at 17:36, 17 Nov 2016.
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kiryu133 said:
Mytical is right on the money.
Stevie, AlHazin, LW, Fred. Your understanding of the subject is woefully inadequate and your attitudes are exactly what leads to the rampant harassment and assault of transgendered and in return the leading cause of the high suicide and self-harm rates.
Hey green buckler, don't get me wrong, I'm not with the least way of discrimination against any kind of human being.
It is just that I see the way people like Stevie's or Fred listed are the ones who don't make any effort to be what they already are. My way of seeing is that it is harder to actually accept yourself as you are, rather than what you would want to be. In some regions of the world such phenomenons happen yet have to stay hidden within a persons mind, because society wants you to play your role. Now you can say that people's opinions don't matter, but actually they do. Basically, it's a choice, you accept to play your role within an All that is society, or you leave and live freely but alone.
And humans are created to live in groups, not as hermits. Which is the more important : family and friends or changing a gender? And life is choices. Even for those people, it's a choice. It's that clear to me.
In fact the very fact that we are debating about those people is a form of discrimination against them. We put them in a group, as if they are not part of us (the "normal" society.
So I don't think my way of seeing it leeds people to kill themselves, no. Sorry if I gave you that impression.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 03:56 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:06, 17 Nov 2016.
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Mytical said:
Here is some facts that might just blow your mind. We all start out as female in the womb. So.. by your own logic there should only ever be females .. right?? It is not until later that testosterone changes SOME into men. So you while you are born male or female, you start out life as female. Every single person on earth. Every single person who has been on earth, is on earth, or will ever be on earth.. starts out as female. So anybody who doesn't think they are female is delusional??? Or living a lie??? After all, we can't change who we start out life as.. right?? Just because testosterone enters the picture later (I believe it is 60 days), changes nothing... by your logic.
This is false and just reveals how misinformed you are, so please reconsider your tone especially when you're not even right with the facts.
Genetically, a zygote is determined male or female from the moment of its conception. A male's 23 chromosomes (from his sperm) join a female's 23 chromosomes (from her egg) and form pairs. Depending on which sexual chromosome the sperm carries (either X or Y), the resulting embryo will have male or female DNA.
Phenotypically (which is the essence of your argument), an embryo in its first few weeks does not display either male or female characteristics. The gonads at that point can become either male or female sex organs depending on the presence or absence of the Y chromosome. It only makes sense that embryos share a lot of their structural development regardless of sex, that's just good design. But that's millions of light years away from claiming that undeveloped sexual glands are actually female and therefore every embryo is female at some point and some turn male.
So no, Mytical, as far as that argument goes, you don't have a point. People don't start out as females no matter how hard you try to delude yourself into believing that. You claim to be educated on the subject, I think you're misinterpreting facts with the googles of your bias.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 04:02 PM |
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Mytical said:
@Fred Just because you have the delusion that you get to decide how somebody IS, when you have no experience.. have not done the research .. and are not that person does not mean everybody else has to share that delusion
lol, what's more delusional:
1. claiming that you are something other than what's between your legs, like a crazy person would claim something exists which nobody else can see.
2. claiming that people claiming they're something other than what's between their legs AREN'T what they CLAIM to be; like a rational thinking person who can deduce reality by observing it physically.
hint: if you picked any answer other than 1, you're wrong. 
you actually think you have me on the ropes, which is funny. it is actually YOU on the ropes, my friend. *swings for the knockout punch and connects* 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 17, 2016 05:34 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 17:34, 17 Nov 2016.
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fred79 said:
1. claiming that you are something other than what's between your legs
You have the notion that having a penis or a vagina is the sole discriminator that determines the full build of someone's body, but you completely seem to ignore the role the brain has and how it was formed, when it comes down to sexual identity. If the part of the brain that regulates sexual identity is formed in a female structure and yet this person has a penis (or male structure but with a vagina), there's a contradiction within the person in question.
You can't solve this because you can't go back to the drawing board to correct the flaw in a fundamental way. The only thing you can do is approach the situation which the person in question is most happy with. Like Mytical, who feels male and has had surgery to change at least the physical appearance to match those feelings. There's a choice to make and usually, the identity as it formed within the brain while the brain was forming, is stronger than the physical appearance. Undergoing surgery is not ideal, but it's the closest thing to achieve a principle feeling of personal happiness.
Suppressing the feelings and sexual identity one has within the brain leads to all sorts of mental and psychological problems.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted November 17, 2016 05:40 PM |
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@Maurice That...or get them cured because that would be the natural conclusion that resonates with the rest of what you said.
Everything here :
Quote:
You have the notion that having a penis or a vagina is the sole discriminator that determines the full build of someone's body, but you completely seem to ignore the role the brain has and how it was formed, when it comes down to sexual identity. If the part of the brain that regulates sexual identity is formed in a female structure and yet this person has a penis (or male structure but with a vagina), there's a contradiction within the person in question.
The problem lies with the person, thus the mantle of responsibility to resolve this contradiction falls to the individual and to be carried by specialists. Simples. 
That or as artu claims we should learn to tolerate this 'disorder', which is fair enough, but don't force people to play along plz..
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 17, 2016 05:50 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 17:57, 17 Nov 2016.
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Tolerating is one thing, condoning is another.
tSar-Ivor said:
The problem lies with the person, thus the mantle of responsibility to resolve this contradiction falls to the individual and to be carried by specialists. Simples.
With that reasoning we'd have people with xenomelia getting amputations and anorexics getting liposuctions.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted November 17, 2016 06:00 PM |
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Mantle of responsibility as in they need to get their **** together, but I acknowledge that some may not know how so that's where specialists and experts come in.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 17, 2016 06:02 PM |
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For what it is worth, you are all meat popsicles to me.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted November 17, 2016 06:03 PM |
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OmegaDestroyer said:
For what it is worth, you are all meat popsicles to me.
For what it is worth, the more I am asked to tolerate, the less I tolerate things.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 17, 2016 06:16 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
OmegaDestroyer said:
For what it is worth, you are all meat popsicles to me.
For what it is worth, the more I am asked to tolerate, the less I tolerate things.
that's a fault of you, no one else
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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