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| Thread: Coronavirus Discussion Thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 23 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
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posted May 22, 2020 05:13 PM |
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"Social distancing" and masks require a partial lockdown. If you want 2 metres distance everywhere and masks, you may have open air events under those conditions, but in closed rooms like halls it becomes difficult. No bars, no discos, no restaurants, no contact sports; entry rule for shops, a lot more home office (distance in offices), places where people work near to each other, schools, kindergardens and so on...
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 05:36 PM |
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This still doesn't explain thousands of people, one sticked to each other, ready to go to Germany for gathering asparagus. Neither does it explain the empty hospitals in a big city, while mass-media says the opposite.
And it's already well known that a regular mask isn't too efficient either; it's also a proper place where bacteria can develop, with all that cramped space, exhaled air, dust (from skin, or air, for example) etc.
The one asking why should he wear a mask was one of the dudes who wanted the people to do it in the first place, and the one who threatened with monthly lockdown.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 22, 2020 08:45 PM |
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On the contrary, every mask is effective because of the way the virus spreads. I explained that in the other thread (and you can check this online); it's besically in every air breathed, in small fluid molecules that stay afloat 8 to 12 minutes. With a mask, this is greatly reduced.
Anyway, what I don't like at all is arguing with "the people dying would have died anyway". Would they? One advancement of our society is that people are NOT dying from things like cancer, diabetes and heart deseases (and HIV) and so on, not RIGHT AWAY. SOME still die fast, some live a couple of years, some get healthy and live MUCH longer - on the other hand EVERYONE dies EVENTUALLY.
Our society is not about "growth whatever the costs". The last economic crisis started when a speculation bubble blew, because everyone wanted to make a profit that just wasn't there anymore at one point. A LOT of money was pumped into saving those who ordinarily would have gone down, and things have gone well from there.
Now there is a crisis due to self-containment in order to save lives and keep the basic workings of the world's biggest economies and societies intact - keep in mind that this may become a blueprint in future years, when we may be forced to radically change our ways with a view on climate and environment.
You have to keep in mind that the workd economy has radically changed - in earlier times a country and their currency was covered by gold (think Fort Knox). Today, currency is covered by ENERGY. The currency of an economic entity, in this case the EU and the Euro is covered by the ability of their members to produce the energy necessary to keep them moving. As long as that is working, all is well.
You don't have to believe that, you can research that, but that is the way things are at this point.
You can also be assured that this isn't used to somehow suppress people - that has long happened. Every mobile delivers all the information needed, every imprint you leave in the internet can be followed (and is, economically), we are all part of a wheel that is turning, with a few sitting fine and comfy in the hub while those furher outside may be thrown off due to the higher speed. Stopping the wheel though, will just throw off even more while those in the hub will still be safest. Slightly slowing the wheel is the right thing to do, although I understand that young people are impatient and want to see results fast.
So for the virus, once there is a SAFE "cure", that is, a safe and reliable treatment that will make the illness less serious, so that you can avoid people dying, things will change. Things will also change when there is a vaccine. Even if vaccinating won't be mandatory (looks like in Germany it won't) it will move responsibility - if people die, well THEIR fault - they could have gotten vaccinated.
However, the really important thing is, that this won't happen again. You know, we HAD THAT. Pigs Flu, Birds Flu - we just were lucky. We need to be able to respond in case of such a thing (it's not like there are not a ton of boks and movies about this), and this will help us define procedures.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 09:07 PM |
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Still didn't answer my major questions, and more like prolonged the discussion.
I never said anything similar to "growth whatever the costs". I didn't even mention economy, except that the guys here sold and are selling everything they can.
The thing with the cure was just a minor addition. After all, profit can still be made.
I dunno why we suddenly started speaking about Eu countries' energy. Not gonna say you're wrong about it or unbelievable.
Well, many of those people were in terminal phase. And as the world has it, compared to last years, the deaths in this period are way lower for everything else in my country.
Well, the virus doesn't get to you as fast, but other bacteria develop there. After all, air easily enters on the sides (it should enter through the mask too, in a certain quantity). Besides, you don't want to see were these blue masks are produced.
Can't be assured by anyone's words, especially online, you can be assured.
JollyJoker said:
However, the really important thing is, that this won't happen again. You know, we HAD THAT. Pigs Flu, Birds Flu - we just were lucky. We need to be able to respond in case of such a thing (it's not like there are not a ton of boks and movies about this), and this will help us define procedures.
How can this not happen again?
JollyJoker said:
You can also be assured that this isn't used to somehow suppress people - that has long happened. Every mobile delivers all the information needed, every imprint you leave in the internet can be followed (and is, economically), we are all part of a wheel that is turning, with a few sitting fine and comfy in the hub while those furher outside may be thrown off due to the higher speed. Stopping the wheel though, will just throw off even more while those in the hub will still be safest. Slightly slowing the wheel is the right thing to do, although I understand that young people are impatient and want to see results fast.
What does this have to do with anything? And the wheel example can be interpreted plenty of ways. Also, are you saying people were suppressed a long time ago?
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Oddball13579
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posted May 22, 2020 09:24 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
So for the virus, once there is a SAFE "cure", that is, a safe and reliable treatment that will make the illness less serious, so that you can avoid people dying, things will change. Things will also change when there is a vaccine. Even if vaccinating won't be mandatory (looks like in Germany it won't) it will move responsibility - if people die, well THEIR fault - they could have gotten vaccinated.
And that's why these diseases are never eradicated anymore. Because of stupid people who choose to not be vaccinated. Like "oh I'd rather risk getting a highly infectious and dangerous disease instead of getting a needle stuck in me to prevent me from getting it" is the height of idiocy. We should just be thankful that the really deadly and infectious diseases were eradicated years ago thanks to global vaccination campaigns.
Vaccination should be mandatory. Period. And if you have potential health complications then you should consult your doctor, but should try your damnedest to still try and get vaccinated.
Like I have health concerns/potential complications when it comes to getting vaccinated, and yet I always got them. All of them. From the first ones when I was a baby, to the boosters in highschool, to the adult boosters that I'll probably be getting in the not-so-distant future. I'd rather risk complications than have the risk of getting a diseases that could kill me or cripple me.
JollyJoker said:
However, the really important thing is, that this won't happen again. You know, we HAD THAT. Pigs Flu, Birds Flu - we just were lucky. We need to be able to respond in case of such a thing (it's not like there are not a ton of boks and movies about this), and this will help us define procedures.
It will happen again. Outbreaks like this are inevitable. We had a Swine Flu outbreak, but the virus is still out there. We had a Bird Flu outbreak, and again, the virus is still out there. They haven't been eradicated. But, like you said, response to outbreaks like this need to be handled better.
Like what if it wasn't COVID-19, but a much, much worse disease? New strain of smallpox? Or tuberculosis? This is a wake up call for a lot of people and world governments.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 09:28 PM |
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It should be optional, in my opinion. All medical acts should be. And those vaccinated, won't be able to get the illness, even if those who weren't have it.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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JollyJoker
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posted May 22, 2020 09:30 PM |
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Your question is based on info I don't have. I have no idea whether something is faked in Romania or not, I'm just pretty sure that things aren't faked in countris like the UK, Italy, Spain, France and Belgium. So how can I answer that?
The country to compare with is obviously Sweden. Sweden has half the pop of Romania, no lockdown, 4.000 deaths. So no lockdown in Romania might have resulted in 7.000 more dead. On the other hand, Scandinavians are more on distance anyway - no kissing, not so much talking and so on, so who knows?
Lastly, yes, the majority of people has been oppressed since the beginning of time. All women, through the times. An there have always been the haves and the havenots.
However, as Janis Joplin sang, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - and the best move ever to guarantee stability was to give everyone something to lose - hereabouts, that is. Looks different in other regions. Germany, where I live in, is pretty much on top of the food chain for the average of the population, but even when you are living in Romania, there are a lot of crapholes in the worls where the average has a much harder time. The worls isn't just black or white.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 09:31 PM |
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Never said it's black on white. Or thought.
How can you say (or approximate) it would have been 7000 deaths without the lockdown when my gov fakes the deaths, either by obliging doctors or bribery?
Well, but you have a point. You didn't see the emptiness of the "treating locations".
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JollyJoker
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posted May 22, 2020 09:32 PM |
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Oddball13579 said:
Like what if it wasn't COVID-19, but a much, much worse disease? New strain of smallpox? Or tuberculosis? This is a wake up call for a lot of people and world governments.
Yes, it could be much worse - the risk group could be babies and very young children, for example.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 22, 2020 09:33 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Never said it's black on white. Or thought.
How can you say (or approximate) it would have been 7000 deaths without the lockdown when my gov fakes the deaths, either by obliging doctors or bribery?
Look, you can't just CLAIM stuff, you have to prove it.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 09:33 PM |
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Then how about tens of people and doctors complaining about it everywhere on the internet, and getting censored a while after? Or doctors just simply leaving their jobs, saying they can't be part of this?
We aren't (and won't) get anywhere.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Oddball13579
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posted May 22, 2020 09:42 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
It should be optional, in my opinion. All medical acts should be. And those vaccinated, won't be able to get the illness, even if those who weren't have it.
So instead of eradicating a potential disease, we should just let it continue to exist and infect people? When we have the technology, resources, and manpower to eradicate them?
JollyJoker said:
Oddball13579 said:
Like what if it wasn't COVID-19, but a much, much worse disease? New strain of smallpox? Or tuberculosis? This is a wake up call for a lot of people and world governments.
Yes, it could be much worse - the risk group could be babies and very young children, for example.
That's what has happened recently. There is a new virus that just cropped up that targets babies and young children. Doctors think that it could be a new strain of COVID-19.
FirePaladin said:
Or doctors just simply leaving their jobs, saying they can't be part of this?
We aren't (and won't) get anywhere.
Doctors are leaving their jobs because they can't take working 24 hours shifts and watching countless people die. Same with nurses. It's hell. And a lot of the healthcare workers are gonna need therapy after this.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 09:46 PM |
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Yes, we should leave it, if it's about modifying or injecting a substance into the people's body. It's theirs, and only they should be allowed to decide what enters them. It's even one of the people's rights. Substances can't be injected without consent from the person.
Not when they say they can't lie about the deaths. And the hospitals here are empty, and I'm not the only one reporting this. What inferno are you speaking about? When the hospitals are empty, in big cities?
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Oddball13579
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posted May 22, 2020 09:58 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Yes, we should leave it, if it's about modifying or injecting a substance into the people's body. It's theirs, and only they should be allowed to decide what enters them. It's even one of the people's rights. Substances can't be injected without consent from the person.
I'm not saying that it be forced. But I am saying that it should be a mandatory requirement for numerous things, jobs and such.
It just is incredibly foolish and stupid to refuse a vaccine.
FirePaladin said:
Not when they say they can't lie about the deaths. And the hospitals here are empty, and I'm not the only one reporting this. What inferno are you speaking about? When the hospitals are empty, in big cities?
Sounds like conspiracy theory propaganda to me. Fear-mongering and the like.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 09:59 PM |
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But what to say, if that's what I've seen with my eyes and what other people see too, all over the country? Do I have to keep it for myself, just because it sounds like a conspiracy? That's nuts.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Oddball13579
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posted May 22, 2020 10:04 PM |
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No you don't have to keep it to yourself. But at the same time, are you sure they are 100% empty? Or are they simply understaffed/operating under sub-optimal circumstances?
I find it hard to believe that a hospital is 100% empty.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 10:05 PM |
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Oddball13579 said:
No you don't have to keep it to yourself. But at the same time, are you sure they are 100% empty? Or are they simply understaffed/operating under sub-optimal circumstances?
I find it hard to believe that a hospital is 100% empty.
Dude, when I say it's empty, it is. I was honestly shocked. Power off. No lights. No sounds. Empty 100%. No cars. And this in more than one hospital. I couldn't believe my eyes. It was crazy. Then more people started saying the same thing. And these are hospitals were at the TV is said that people are treated there.
I don't want to oblige you into believing me or trying to make a conspiracy crap, but it's simply what I've witnessed, in my country, which, I'll be honest, isn't truly the best regarding politics.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Oddball13579
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posted May 22, 2020 10:12 PM |
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Sounds to me like they have been shutdown or the funding for them has been cut.
And you saying that your country isn't great on politics than it sounds even more likely that that is what happened.
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FirePaladin
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posted May 22, 2020 11:04 PM |
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Maybe, but what's intriguing me is that those hospitals are shown to be full of patients at the TV. Plus, the gov has plenty of money to keep the hospitals running, especially these times, and especially after funding mass-media several millions.
Sorry, by not great in politics I meant those guys contradict each other a day after saying something and are already known to do dirty stuff.
Anyway, kinda made this thing too long. I am not denying the virus or anything, I don't know what the exact situation in other countries is, I'm just saying that here at me something fishy might be happening, which isn't that uncommon, but now happening on what you might call a larger scale (well, asparagus gathering in the middle of the lockdown, to name one).
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Salamandre
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posted May 22, 2020 11:10 PM |
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Actually I was very positively surprised about some laws in Romania, as elders having free transport, also elders having specific hours to make their market during the lockdown, where no younger were admitted. Some smart and humane decisions.
Also, on the 12th of march, I passed a 2 hours medical control when entering the country, while one week later I entered without any check in France.
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