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Pol
Known Hero
.^.
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posted March 10, 2022 03:58 PM |
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Salamandre said:
There is a movie made by a french journalist, exposing the (I quote) "crimes against humanity perpetuated by soldiers and extremist Ukrainians on Donbass russian population".
It's pity, that she didn't bother to make movie about atrocities caused by Donetsk KGB on Ukranians, which started first. And decide to side only with Russian propaganda.
Some people check facts, some people don't.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 10, 2022 04:02 PM |
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If you show me a documentary on what you claim there,I will take the time to look at. This is what makes us different.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 04:17 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 04:26 PM |
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Salamandre said:
she said 13000 were killed, the information was fackchecked and debunked by multiple french media. However, the Wiki page War in Donbas states that the war has killed around 13000 people.
Exactly - but it's worth mentioning who those 13.000 people ARE, don't you think? Herethe casualties are shown in a bit more detail.
Quote:
There is not a single link to which "mainstream medias" debunking, nor to which propaganda she parroted. What is wiki now, someone's wishes?
Check this
Anyway - of course there are casualties. There has been a war ongoing since 2014, and of course the situation has to be settled before there can be peace between Russia and Ukraine.
On the other hand it looks like the plethora of agreements and ceasefires since 2014 didn't last long.
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Salamandre
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posted March 10, 2022 05:05 PM |
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I don't see what your link is supposed to show, is exactly what I said. She made a documentary about the conflict Ukraine/Donbass, way before the actual Ukraine/Russia conflict and nobody had anything to say.
Now, everyone is looking at her movie as if she made it yesterday and she wanted to discredit Ukraine and support Putin. That's nonsense, if you look at the timeline context.
Is also relevant to note that wiki emphasize on her talking on a "conservative media".
Why a conservative only, when the same day she appeared on BFMTV which is left leaning mainstream.
I know the answer, no need one.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 05:32 PM |
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Salamandre said:
way before the actual Ukraine/Russia conflict
Blitz question to you. Do you think regular Russian army forces were in Donbas region before 02/24/2022? Yes or no, please.
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Salamandre
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Omnipresent Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 05:43 PM |
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I have no idea, I learn about these 2 conflicts as time passes by.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 05:50 PM |
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So you admit that you don't know much about the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, but that doesn't stop you from repeating Russian propaganda numerous times? Maybe you should at least learn more and then post your messages in this thread without actually having an idea what is happening? Please check your sources and reply to the same question once you have your opinion. That's an important one.
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Salamandre
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posted March 10, 2022 05:57 PM |
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Well, you keep repeating I parrot propaganda, but you don't help me at all. Your arguments were "let's go to wiki and discredit the journalist".
"We will have work, they will not. We will have pensions, they will not. We will have benefits for pensions and for children, they will not. Our children will go to school, their children will stay in the cellars. Because they don't know how to do anything. And that's how, precisely how we'll win this war !"
Ukraine president Porochenko, 2014. public speech about Donbas civilians.
As far as I know, the last leader talking this way was elected in 1933.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 06:02 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 18:05, 10 Mar 2022.
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It's sad that everyone tries to justify this war now. But damage is done. And it's not just damage to the infrastrustrure of Ukraine, it's thousands of universes that don't enjoy this life anymore. Sure, we're all now tactical and political genuises, even maybe war experts, sitting in houses that are still intact.
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Salamandre
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Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 10, 2022 06:25 PM |
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ihor said:
https://www.stopfake.org/fr/manipulations-et-fakes-dans-le-documentaire-francais-donbass/
I'm not going to discuss that crap, somebody has already fact-checked it.
"Somebody"?
The fact-checking site StopFake.org was launched on March 2, 2014 with the aim of verifying facts advanced by Kremlin propaganda. The initiators of the project are teachers, former graduates as well as students of the Mohyla Academy (a journalism school in Ukraine. editor's note) and of the “ Digital Future of Journalism ” program, intended for journalists and editors.
Many people who have joined the project, be they journalists, editors, programmers or interpreters, are concerned about the future of Ukraine and its people since the beginning of the occupation of Crimea and the military actions in the Donbass.
Have you any clue about what is first required for a fact-checker to be taken seriously?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 06:32 PM |
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And a really big question - what is that power which could provide peace guarantees to Ukraine?
1. NATO. They made it clear that they protect their members only.
2. Russia. They can guarantee the independence of Ukraine. And not just in words, but in deeds, as we see. But we also see that ethnical Ukrainians would be treated as traitors and Nazis by Russia in this scenario. Do you really think that Russia ever forgives?
3. The UN. But we see what they are really worth of.
4. The US itself. And this is the best option. I think only the US can really guarantee that Russia will never ever repeat this reckless step into oblivion.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 06:49 PM |
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My point is that if you want to understand the situation you must spend time and analyze the facts. I asked a simple question and wanted a simple answer, the answer "I have no idea" might actually mean that you don't want to know the truth. I assume you're not banned in Google, so you can research and find out. You could start by finding some initial details in Wikipedia in like 30 seconds and then understand where to look next.
Anyway, if you need help, let me give you some details. Check out this resource here: https://informnapalm.org/en/russian-military-intervention-ukraine-overview-evidence-map/
Nowadays, with plenty of open-source content, including pictures, videos, posts in social media, sometimes it's easy to verify different facts.
In fact, there are so many proofs of Russian presence that it's so weird that we still have to discuss this. I still remember 2014 and I remember the posts by Russians themselves in VK (social media) that they were bragging they are in Ukraine, uniform, weapons, all of that.
So, what do you think, now? Do you still have no idea or you need more evidence?
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Salamandre
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posted March 10, 2022 06:56 PM |
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ok thanks, I will look.
You still didn't give your opinion on Porochenko quote, quite disturbing one.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 07:03 PM |
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I'm not a King Kong of politics, but I think I've listed all the possibilities for a peaceful solution of the sutiation. You cannot trust a country that is incapable of waging war to keep the peace. And now I know two of such countries - the US and Russia. Of cource, Ukraine is in the list also, their people are real heroes, but we should understand that a small countries are doomed for suffering when being attacked by superpowers countries. Maybe a compromiss is possible even.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 07:18 PM |
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I'm afraid I can't give you my opinion on Poroshenko quote. I was trying to google that message and then I only found this: https://www.shine.cn/news/in-focus/2203102957/
And it also says: "Some news sites argued that the speech was taken out of context. But "their children will stay in cellars" was apparently understood by many in the Donbass region as a reference to them."
Indeed, in the video, it looks like it's taken out of context and would be valuable to hear the entire speech, not the part where it's not even clear what he means.
-----
And more evidence in Google Doc here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/159jVqzSfz5gR-0YwsdnbeQMsNNEOwnhjJswkvqQNqm8/edit#gid=0
Looks like English version links are broken, but original works fine, and then Google Translate can help.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 07:40 PM |
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Now it's not the time to chew over the causes of the war, why it happened and how it could have be prevented. We have a war, the real one. The cost of a just one day of postponing a peaceful solution is hundreds of broken human lives of those people who probably wanted to play games or launch rockets to Venus. And decades of hatred. Russia will win, or maybe Ukraine will be new Afghanistan for it. Many of you wanted to live now in destroyed by both Russia and the US country of Afghanistan? For Europeans it's just a local conflict between two Soviet states. Many even think that Russians kill Russians. And while they do it NATO gets stronger. Well, I, too, can't really say which Europeans belong to which country. It's very sad that people who share common views on this life, who just want to play games, or dance, or spend their lives proving the Riemann hypothesis, forced to be slaves to the war machine which was created by those who takes and never gives.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 10, 2022 08:04 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 20:22, 10 Mar 2022.
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My strategy: when they take an old capitol, and we tell a news that temporary capitol is Lviv.. and in there is Zeleskyi.. Because I'm played too much chess, Heroes, Settlers.. Why? We take their more losing troops, time etc But now defend a town.. Important laugh, power and morale to them.. Ok do it secret..
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 08:07 PM |
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Ghost, you can really use https://translate.google.com/
Most of the time I don't understand what you mean.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2022 08:26 PM |
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Now we clearly see that those "hoax games" played by politicians are reality. Do they really know what the best scientists of our planet don't? I don't think so. I think that the people with power are people who disappointed in life, who know that our sun is doomed. Those who don't belive that we, people, may become immortal one day. Or are they those who already know all the possible answers? Anyway, you don't see many scientists between politicians. And I'm not sure, if the current system is future-oriented at all, or there will be a new renaissance. At least, now we have all hopes for it. We are no more those people who were building senseless pyramids, we are those who created AI which in some areas may be considered smarter than any living individuum.
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