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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 13, 2022 11:03 AM |
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Ben80 said:
You are right, of course. It’s just that a discussion of the USSR still pops up if we communicate on this topic more widely, talking about civilizational confrontation.
No. It doesn't "pop up" - you BRING it up. Sure, Russia and the Ukraine have been together in the USSR, but so what? It might (I don't say it does, but for the sake of the argument it might) be a factor in EXPLAINING what is happening, but not in JUSTIFYING it. And how good or bad the USSR was is neither here nor there, because Russia attacking Ukraine won't restore it and has nothing to do with it.
If two people are divorced, one cannot come back years later and force the other at gunpoint to reunite because that one feels they had such a great time together. And the claim that the current or aspiring partner(s) are bad for her isn't valid either.
So - red herrings. And off-topic.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 13, 2022 01:01 PM |
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Today news told Russia is weak, but ex-power from 6000 nuclear warheads..
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted April 13, 2022 07:01 PM |
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 15, 2022 01:03 PM |
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted April 16, 2022 10:43 AM |
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/15/putin-thought-ukraine-war-was-a-missile-to-nato-it-may-be-a-boomerang
But by Nato’s Madrid summit in June, Nato will be on course to expand its population by 16 million, its GDP by €800bn and its land mass by 780,000 sq km. Ukraine, by contrast, has a population of 41 million, a land mass of 603,000 sq km and a GDP of €155bn. A new 1,300km border with Nato could be formed, the precise opposite of what Putin set out to achieve in the treaties designed to shrink Nato that he ordered the west to accept last year. What is worse for Moscow, Nato could have strengthened itself in the Baltic Sea, right next to Kaliningrad enclave, the strategic Russian naval base.
By invading Ukraine, Putin thought he had hurled a missile at the west. It has emerged to be a precision-guided boomerang. To have turned two stolidly non-aligned countries into Nato members would join the pantheon of great strategic blunders of wartime.
This is basically what I was saying for more than a month already. Putin is a terrible strategist, he miscalculated and now causes catastrophical damage to both Ukraine and Russia, while NATO becomes even stronger.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2022 12:19 AM |
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2022 07:59 AM |
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The Turkish armed forces launched a military operation against Kurdistan Workers' Party in northern Iraq. Is it interesting to someone and does anyone want to discuss it? Does it make sense to create a new topic?
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted April 19, 2022 06:13 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 19, 2022 07:32 PM |
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Ben80 said:
The Turkish armed forces launched a military operation against Kurdistan Workers' Party in northern Iraq. Is it interesting to someone and does anyone want to discuss it? Does it make sense to create a new topic?
Link
You mean PKK? That’s not a political “party” you know, and dont let the name fool you, they arent about socialism either. The war between Kurdish independence movement and Turkey has been going on for 40 years. The operation is nothing new, it’s routine.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 05:12 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 05:21, 20 Apr 2022.
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Yes, I understand. I guess. I just thought - all of a sudden, kind people on the forum (like AlexSpl, for example) are worried - that's why I asked if it was necessary to create a topic.
Or perhaps the Ukrainians on the forum are worried about such things. everyone should worry and worry about the Ukrainians, which means that Ukrainians, probably, also worry about others.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 12:11 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 12:26, 20 Apr 2022.
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Quote:
Yes, I understand. I guess. I just thought - all of a sudden, kind people on the forum (like AlexSpl, for example) are worried
Well, I'm just a human. I can honestly admit that I'm biased. I still hate wars, any wars, but this one is beyond my capacity to think even logically, not saying about tears shed by my empathy. For me now brothers kill brothers, not in a saying of some sage, but in a real nightmare. Always thought that Russians and Ukrainians are above this. Well, many of them are still above this. But you know the fate of a pacifist. The crowd is always right no matter how stupid it may be.
You have a good point, though. It only remains to recall current local conflicts in Africa.
When I see destroyed tanks I don't think of those pieces of metal snow, I think about those guys who were inside. Not all of them were necessarily bad guys. You know there are war fanatics, worshippers of Mars, and there are people who only wanted to defend their families. To defend, not to take lives of other families.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 12:23 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 12:31, 20 Apr 2022.
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@ ben80: the people orchestrating everything pictured in that meme, are the same people. only those who are willfully misinformed or short-sighted fail to grasp this. this goes for you; and the others "showing support for ukraine". by continually being attracted to the divisionist dog-and-pony show(yes, your enemies use even the atrocities of war in this manner), you are playing into your(all of our) enemy's hands. you people are discussing the face-value of war, without understanding who is behind it, and why. the who, and why, are the MOST important things to be discussing.
protip: if you're getting your "understanding" of "who", and "why" from government-run sources, you AREN'T getting any understanding of "who" and "why". you are being LIED TO. you should KNOW THIS by now. there is NO excuse to be CONTINUALLY DENSE at this point in time.
both zelenskyy AND putin, are on the SAME SIDE. and that side isn't for russia OR the ukraine(any more than those at the helm in ANY western country are for their own nation's people). their handlers are feeding BOTH country's populace to the meat grinder, and they're doing so INTENTIONALLY. what you are seeing is an easily observable tactic that has been REPEATED for as long as there has even BEEN war in the modern world. they are using atrocity as PROPAGANDA. they want you EMOTIONALLY INVESTED, so they can MANIPULATE YOU into FURTHERING THEIR PLANS.
WAKE UP.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 12:36 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 12:46, 20 Apr 2022.
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Quote:
you people are discussing the face-value of war, without understanding who is behind it, and why. the who, and why, are the MOST important things to be discuussing.
Do you know how to effectively fight faraohs? I think you will build another pyramid rather than convince at least one of them that wars are bad. How can they be bad if we are making money? - they will say. Look at those piles of gold, spoils of war. Do you still think wars aren't profitable - they will say. They have their vision, and it's a problem of the whole system, the nature, who allowed that twisted ways of thinking.
Also look at the very nature of sanctions. They are against pharaohs and their luxuries. This means, for pharaohs yachts are more important than lives of their own tankists. Have you heard about Pharisees? Our rulers are the mix of pharaohs and Pharisees. And real changes are possible if one group of them will think that it would be very profitable to eliminate another group of them 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 12:45 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Do you know how to effectively fight faraohs?
yes. the masses outnumber those running things by millions to one. as long as the masses think their leaders are ON THEIR SIDE, they will never rise against them; but instead, work for them.
once people come to grips with reality, they can change the state of the world. until then, it will go on as those that control, subjugate, and destroy them, plan.
they are defeating everyone first and foremost, because they have convinced everyone that THEY ARE BENIGN. that the dog-and-pony show is the reality. "USE YOUR EMOTIONS INSTEAD OF YOUR BRAIN". "FEEL, NOT THINK". "TAKE EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS AT FACE VALUE".
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 20, 2022 12:51 PM |
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Ghost said:
Today news told Russia is weak, but ex-power from 6000 nuclear warheads..
Ok weak, medium or strong.. Because Russian new attempt!  It's the same Polybius game..
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 12:54 PM |
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@fred79,
it's called a "conspiracy theory". I don't know if it's true or false. On the one hand, the elites of different countries could negotiate before, at all times. Nevertheless, history does not consider the wars of the past "negotiable". Take the first world war. All participating countries were capitalist countries, which means that it was easy for the elites of these countries to negotiate with each other. But that war is considered real, "non-contractual".
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 12:57 PM |
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Quote:
yes. the masses outnumber those running things by millions to one. as long as the masses think their leaders are ON THEIR SIDE, they will never rise against them; but instead, work for them.
This is an impossible scenario in our reality due to our own nature. Do you really think that Hitler killed so many people? No, they were killed by people who wanted to kill. They, themselves, were ready for this, even, maybe, wanted this. Hitler just allowed inner haters inside people to fest. Look around, do you see many clever people near you?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 01:00 PM |
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you operate under the easily disprovable notion that your leaders have your best interests in mind. until you realize that is absolute horsesnow, you will help not only continually perpetuate this bs existence of mindless servitude, but you will actively be helping them to work towards your individual nations' destruction; to where they will forever hold a monopoly on power through the unification of their resources.
this is inarguable.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 20, 2022 01:04 PM |
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Yes because Hitler killed the Jews.. If black too.. In the US could problem.. If only war and conquest.. We keep a common war..
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2022 01:10 PM |
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@fred79,
I'll just give you a quote from one literary work.
"Understand, lieutenant, not everything in this life determined by territories and ships. There is also the spirit of the nation and the God of War. Here they are all decide. And then the Karls Marxes come and explain that France fought for the primordial the French lands and Germany are for them. And Russia, apparently, is for influence on these same lands.
Is that how you do it, Lieutenant?"
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