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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 21, 2023 09:19 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 22:03, 21 Feb 2023.
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I can't believe Artu is so wrong about this. Ukraine had a 30% approval for joining NATO before 2014 annexation of Crimea. And Ukraine didn't qualify for NATO membership either. They could not have joined even if they wanted to.
Yanukovych only made himself and his family rich by doing the bidding of Kremlin when in power. He rejected everything EU offered and approved everything Moscow did. People hated that, they wanted to be part of West, and they ousted him. You can't with clear conscience say he wasn't a Russian puppet.
EDIT: Maybe I am wrong so I wait for your response but you come off as you thinking Ukraine should remain a Russian satellite state. You imply that it wasn't wise for them to choose west instead of Russia? And when you call it a "so called" revolution what do you mean by that exactly?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 21, 2023 10:08 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:11, 21 Feb 2023.
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The qualification or official full membership is just a technicality, it was on the table, thats why you have approval ratings and so on. And puppet or not, you had a pro-Russian government replaced with a pro-western one. Remember even the debates in here and how the Russians percieved the change. And that is the conflict, I am not talking about who is right or wrong, but the conflict is between Russia and Western powers, not just Russia and Ukraine. Any analysis with depth will tell you the same.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 21, 2023 10:15 PM |
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Ukraine choosing west life style is not a problem for Putin, since millions of Russians constantly visit or study in Occident. But militarization of Ukraine, financed by the US, it is. Putin himself told many times his admiration for western culture, his opposite talk style right now is only an understandable counter to Russian trashing from our part.
In 1962 when Russia attempted to install a military base in Cuba, Kennedy threatened with nuclear war. Last year, when China stated discussions with Solomon Islands (2500 km far from US borders) for implementing a military base, US said this will lead to military invasion from them, so China had to withdrawn. Ukraine being basically border to border with Russia has to consider what is always accepted for others, an neutral influence sphere, for the sake of security. Anyway.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 21, 2023 10:17 PM |
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The so called means that it wasnt a revolution in the classical sense. You had Ukranian people supporting both camps and intelligence agencies of the Western side naturally backed up the pro-western side both financially and through media coverage. It wasnt about poor people uprising to the rich or somethng like that, it was about alliiences.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 21, 2023 10:28 PM |
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Just because it is a more modern revolution, it doesn't mean it is not a revolution. Yanukovich failed his promises, I would love to see more people in power ousted when they prove to be a complete lackey for a foreign power. We need more of this, not less. Maybe even in Turkey some day.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 21, 2023 10:32 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
what exactly had Russia to fear from NATO? Absolutely NOTHING.
That's from our (the western world) perspective. It is such an error to not take into consideration what other leaders think and how they interpret NATO's expansion; even if they are wrong, we can't just ignore it. Oh we did, and see the consequences now.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 22, 2023 01:05 AM |
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The majority of Europe does not share your view Galaad.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2023 01:07 AM |
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Salamandre said:
You forgot the billions to Taiwan, as it doesn't fit your narrative. Yet it is the key to understand what Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan have in common. What you notice similar when you look at map locations?
Divide et impera said Julius Caesar a few years ago, and that's how USA feeds its hegemonic power in strategical areas where there are either tons of resources or nearby secular enemies to contain. That Zelensky is a jew is pure hazard and doesn't play in anything, as there is a much bigger design here.
"there is a much bigger design here". no snow, sherlock. i've been trying to point that out. this jew snow encompasses thousands of years of history, major religions and every impact they've made, and everything inside nations spanning the entire world.
what do russia and china have in common that the powerful western nations don't? what makes them the biggest threat to people attempting to divide and conquer the rest of the world, now that the west has been snowing handed to them?
well, being that russia is already compromised by the jews (that you guys actually pointed out, but don't understand; when you referenced how a pro-russian leader was replaced by a pro-western one), that only leaves china. so what's china's biggest strength? two things: national homogeneity, and solidarity.
do you understand why taiwan, a nation the jews are trying to get a larger foothold in, is being given aid, now? look at what's happening in taiwan: same sex marriage (for one), an overall invasion of "western" "values" into their culture, being so close to china (why do you think the jews focused their efforts on UKRAINE, ffs???)... i could go on and on. it's the same divisionary tripe pushed in EVERY WHITE WESTERN COUNTRY, that they're attempting ELSEWHERE NOW. look at how taiwan is being discussed by just ONE obviously jew-trained "journalist": journalist my ass.
this goes back to saying what i pointed out about the jews: division and the upset of national identity. the jews running ukraine and the wef-puppet(or "pro-western politician", if you prefer) putin running russia; both sides sending whites to die in droves. no jews, no other ethnicity besides WHITE UKRAINIANS and WHITE RUSSIANS. dying in droves. billions in foreign aid to the JEW in power.
you guys keep dancing around 1 and 1, but not combining them to make 2.
taiwan is at the doorstep of china (mostly chinese, which = threat to the jews). ukraine is at the doorstep of the primarily white russia (which also = threat to the jews; and why so many whites are dying RIGHT snowING NOW).
BOTH nations becoming "westernized" (jew-indoctrinated, in other words).
this snow speaks for itself. all you guys are doing, is pointing fingers literally EVERYWHERE BUT THE JEWS. and why? because that's what jewish-controlled(or again, "westernized", if you prefer) media TELLS you to do.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 22, 2023 01:34 AM |
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Minion said:
The majority of Europe does not share your view Galaad.
And 75% of the world does not share the western view. I just hope we avoid WW3 at this point.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 22, 2023 01:42 AM |
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Such a bad take dude. 
I know majority of the world doesnšt care what happens in Europe, but at least most of us in Europe do.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 22, 2023 05:28 AM |
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Galaad said:
JollyJoker said:
what exactly had Russia to fear from NATO? Absolutely NOTHING.
That's from our (the western world) perspective. It is such an error to not take into consideration what other leaders think and how they interpret NATO's expansion; even if they are wrong, we can't just ignore it. Oh we did, and see the consequences now.
I'm with Galaad here.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 22, 2023 06:11 AM |
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Saying that the majority of Europe doesn't share Galaad's views is wishful thinking, all polls show there is clear division, but that is masterfully ignored by the state medias.
As soon as you browse alternative medias, there are many intellectuals, analysts and military personnel giving a very different perspective of what is told up in the sultan's harem. Also, it is not about 75% of the world "not carrying about whats going in Europe", but actually having a firm position against how we act, based on the experience they had in the past. I mean, what happened to all the countries where we militarily rushed headlong to bring "freedom and democracy", let's be serious one minute.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2023 08:24 AM |
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Guys, you let yourself blinded by the desire to find a sensible explanation for Russia/Putin's behavior. But Ukraine isn't the only ex-Sowjet republic Putin meddled with in his tenure.
What about that paper that has been leaked? The one that sketches the subversion of Belarus till 2030?
Let's repeat this. Russia has been a GUARANTEE power for the integrity of Ukraine - and they destroyed that integrity in 2014 (not just in 2022). Imagine if Britain had divided Poland in 1938 or so ...
And NATO? Under TRUMP? Please. Not a factor in Europe. There was no "sensible" reason whatsoever to invade the Ukraine - NONE. Except from a view of sheer power politics.
I can't believe that reasonable people fall for that bull. Does anyone think Russia is in a better position NOW, with Finnland and Sweden keen on joining NATO?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 22, 2023 09:04 AM |
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If I were Macron, I would propose to Putin a referendum about adhesion to Russia in all disputed regions, including Crimea so break the status-quo, supervised by independent observers. But then, if everything goes as expected, the whole community accept the result and stop the Russia bashing. I believe Putin would take the risk.
Because you guys repeat that fairy tale about "annexing Crimea", while the timeline contradicts it. First of all, Crimea asked to become independent from Ukraine, then asked to join Russia same year, and voting results were indisputable. To those who still push the lie that vote was done under armed threat, Pew Research Center did go in Crimea in 2014 and made a survey and, guess what: everything in opinions confirmed the vote. Do a simple search.
And is not even about patriotism, nationalism or whatever. The life quality and income is 3 times superior in Russia lands, when compared to the most corrupted and fascist leaning country in EU, Ukraine. Which no one talks about.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted February 22, 2023 11:01 AM |
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In brief, Russia said neonazi, not nuclear weapon in Ukraine.. Then security guarantee matter.. And I said already USA crooked to say to EU, take a EU and NATO member, etc I warned.. I'm not prophet but schizophrenic.. Ok attacked to Ukraine is wrong.. Because in Ukraine isn't neonazi, and federation, and then 1991 border, etc
Ok first matter, I quoted text
"Jehovah's Witnesses believe that being 'anointed' involves a personal revelation by God's spirit which "gives positive assurance of adoption" to the individual alone. Members who claim to be anointed are not given special treatment by other congregation members."
So 3 or 4 years ago I listened anointed spoke that USA and Russia are enemy, when he read news, he has researched the matter in 10 years, and then he said Russia conquers many countries in about 10 years away. And now's Ukraine..
So the same matter that USA urged to EU to take Ukraine..
But war is wrong.. Then Russia must to lose all.. And learning life over 50 years..
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 22, 2023 11:20 AM |
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JJ, I want the war to END. As in, you know, make peace. No more bombings and deaths.
Not sure what YOU want... so, please tell us.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2023 03:35 PM |
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@ Drakon-Deus
This isn't kindergarden and wars won't end just because we all make a wish. But you are free to journey to Moscow and ask Putin to End the war.
Salamandre said:
If I were Macron, I would propose to Putin a referendum about adhesion to Russia in all disputed regions, including Crimea so break the status-quo, supervised by independent observers. But then, if everything goes as expected, the whole community accept the result and stop the Russia bashing. I believe Putin would take the risk.
Macron has no power to do that - to command over Ukrainian or Russian territory. The only way to do that would be to somehow PRESSURE both Russia AND the Ukraine in doing so, and pressuring countries into solutions they both hate has never been a good idea, as all former Yugoslavian republics can testify to.
Quote:
To those who still push the lie that vote was done under armed threat, Pew Research Center did go in Crimea in 2014 and made a survey and, guess what: everything in opinions confirmed the vote. Do a simple search.
Do you mean this one? Seems to contradict your wrong claim. Russia went in first and the "referendum" was held under Russian control.
Let me add one thing here. If there was kind of bad mood against Paris in Alsace, and Germans would organize a referendum there with the result Alasace becoming part of Germany AGAIN - would that sound like proper politics to you? Would France say, sure, why not?
So just cut the crap here, thank you.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 22, 2023 04:03 PM |
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Again with the go to Russia message. I think you can do better, Jolly. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 22, 2023 07:29 PM |
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You are right.
Go to Kyev.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 22, 2023 07:53 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
You are right.
Go to Kyev.
I will go nowhere, thank you. I have better things to do than to die in the name of the NATO, the EU and the holy Zelenski. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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This thread is pages long: 
