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Troelsen
Hired Hero
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posted October 11, 2001 04:05 PM |
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2 blacks and lightning bolt and sephrinoth, what a strategy hehe
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted October 12, 2001 12:07 AM |
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Tro!
Now you just done and gone posted something that was actually different! 2 blacks and lightning bolt and Sephinroth?
That's almost too ridiculous to be ridiculous...
Were you having us on?
*smile*
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AndiAngelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2001 02:11 PM |
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wuhahahha
Quote:
I think fire magic is best 4 dungeon. U take malekith as ur main, give him 10-15 BD's (by the time u have 10 bd's, ull have expert fire magic, expert sorcery + 120% bonus, and spell power of 10+ with arts), then u come in, cast armageddon, and clean up the leftovers with your dragons. and the rest give to ur other hero or leaven in town. Manticores/Scorpicores I like to use best a cleanup to get rid of those little stacks which might give the opponent a chance to retreat later, or to clean up whats left aftter being burned up by dragons.
looooool thanks man, thats the funniest thing i ever read, i cant see anything coz of those tears in my eyes...
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted October 19, 2001 06:45 PM |
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Andi you pansy! I miss you!
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2001 01:28 AM |
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What maps are played here? 50 blacks at end game? Refuse to choose log!!! Upgrade harpies day 2 or 3? what is going on? I agree with Gootch too, res is good to take utopias and stuff, but most players in ToH are too smart and will stand on stacks. gimme Stronghold and a good offense hero any s=day, I'll show u what u can do with your magic.
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Myctteakyshd
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted October 22, 2001 10:44 AM |
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Okay, let's look at this a little differently
If we're all such experts at Dungeon (oooo) then let's start looking, not at ways to use Harpies and Blacks and Armageddon, but methods in which the enemy uses (yes, Rychee, you and your Behemoth bearing, sword-wielding stronghold heroes!) to defeat a typical Dungeon main.
I know 'typical' is a very specific word used for a very broad choice when it comes to describing an army. But let's pick three of the most popular Dungeon Heroes (Alamar/Jeddite, Gunnar and Deemer). A typical clash of main heroes would involve perhaps a Dungeon main with four to six weeks worth of troops, most of which would be upgraded. 7-10 Blacks, 18-20 Serpicores, as many as 35-40 Minotaur Kings, etc etc.
Dungeon Heroes are typically possessed of evenly spread statistics, with a slight emphasis on might on most occaisions (often no need for too many knowledge points due to the availability of the Mana Vortex).
What is the first unit in a Dungeon that you strike at? How long does it take for you to make the first move? Do you cast first or wait for a reaction? Remember that you're up against a town that has ranged units, a 7th level which is both fast and strong and above all, magic resistant, and level 5's which can tear the guts out of most stacks that are silly enough to get too close and waste their one and only retaliatory strike.
How do YOU defeat Dungeon?
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sos
Known Hero
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posted October 22, 2001 04:43 PM |
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Everything in combat depends on so many factors that its difficult to summarize in all cases. Good thing about Dungeon is that it can wait out all towns except Rampart and cast last in a round (as long as they have BD and blind spell). If I face overlord I may cast mast curse immidiately. It's very efective agains dungeon - dungeon troops does not deal much damage in a first place (except BD and MK), and cursed most units are almost useless. Note that overlord wont be able to do anything about it, except maybe blessing a single stack due to a lack of water magic. Its unlikely that warlock will have water also, so it may work here as well.
Another spell that I wold cast as soon as possible is berserk, of course.
When battling dungeon I try to go for the BD first. 2 reasons for that - when Blackie is gone, its gone forever, and secondly - possibility of casting Armagedon. After that, MK is the biggest thread, so I go for them. The rest of the troops are not that dangerous, so they come later.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted October 22, 2001 05:38 PM |
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Depends on the town I'm playing of course...in a perfect world I'd be either the Castle with Sir Mullich or Loynis. Or I'd be the Necromancer with Aislinn. Black Dragons have their spell immunity. So that leaves the Minotaur King as the next best target for a high damage spell. With Castle I'd wait to see what my opponent does for his spell and his black dragons. If he slows me and sends'em over I proceed to cast mass cure or disspell and wait for my halberdier's turn. They'll take the shot from the black dragons and then I'll proceed to whale on them; throwing everything I've got against them. If I don't get slowed and he decides to meteor shower or implode me, I'll cast expert clone(hopefully) on my archangels and have the clone resurrect whatever got smacked. Barring that I'll cast resurrection. If he casts haste and I'm Loynis, I respond with Prayer and show him the difference between the two. If I'm Sir Mullich and he casts haste, then I'll probably cast mass bless or shield and take it to him. In a head-to-head match with the Dungeon, I like the way the Castle stacks up against it.
As for Necro...I'll take whatever spell his hero casts and lob Meteor showers on him; great area affect spell and usually won't kill the entire stack. I'll finish whatever is left off and stand something useless on top of it, like wraiths or zombies, to prevent resurrection. I'm pretty sure I'll be slowed...but I can handle my skeletons taking 4 turns to cross the board to knock out his ranged while I whittle the dragons, scorpicores, minotaurs, trogs, and harpies down to squat. The biggest threats to him will be my 1k+ Skeleton Warriors, Vampire Lords, and Dread Knights, so I wouldn't be surprised if he sends his black dragons to engage them. As for my ghost dragons and their aging skill... I don't know if it works on Black Dragons. But--it has always bugged me that the aging can be 'cured'. I don't rely on it, nor do I need to. The other towns I think don't stack up well against the Dungeon(including Stronghold) and will have a much tougher time against even a semi-decent player.
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted October 22, 2001 05:51 PM |
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It depends on which town troops you have. What hero and hero`s stats you and your opponent have. What spells you and your opponent have. What and how many troops you have.
This questions are same with and against every town, but lets check what you do against Dungeon with different towns. One thing is sure, first creature stack you want almost always take out first are Black Dragons. Minotaurs, Scorpicores (becouse of their special) and shooters are secondary targets. Harpies and Trogs can be taken out later.
As sos already mentioned it.
Castle: If you have expert water magic and clone with good amount of Arch Angels, start by cloning those Angels and move original stack front of Marksmen (if you have come with seven stacks, if not and enemy is too far away from rest of your troops, just wait) while attacking with cloned stack the Blackies maybe even using their retalition blast to your advantage. If you don`t have Clone but have Prayer with expert water and enemy troops are close enough you can start by casting Prayer and attacking Blackies (you can do this of course even tough you would have both spells) even tough enemy would cast mass slow on your troops you still have advantage (with Loynis even bigger advantage). Champions are good against MKs but you can hit Blackies too with them. Griffins can take out shooters or Harpies or even defend your Marksmen with Halberdiers (if enemy is too far away). Shoot with shooters those creatures that are in range, if no creatures are in range shoot enemy shooters then. Hit minotaurs or blackies with Crusaders but only if there isnt many of them or they have used their retalition.
Halberdiers are good against Harpies.
Fortress: MGs take out Blackies. Hydras will use their multihexattack as much as they are able to do so. Basilisks take out Scorpicores and MKs with Wywerns. Use your Dragon Flyes to dispel enemy spells and casting weakness on them. Take out shooters with your flyers in second round. Lizard Warriors will shoot targets in range and preferably low level stacks. Teleport your Hydras and Gorgons when needed. Cast Mass Bless on your troops (Fortress units have wide damage ranges, so this is the town where Mass Bless is most useful, especially when cursed. If you have clone you know where to cast it. (Mass) Prayer will be davastating in your hands. Cast stoneskin, slow or shield when you feel so.
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attila
Known Hero
Young Warrior
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posted October 24, 2001 02:13 AM |
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LOL maps with 15 black dragons. I get that every day. not only way you can get that is on mth 2 or so with no plague and maybe some joiners from hg3. And arrma with just black dragons. you better hope they dont have renders cloak, black orb or shakeles. you might have a hard time fighting a whole army wiyth only 15 blacks. 
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¤¤¤ Attila ¤¤¤
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David_Ryan
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 24, 2001 09:52 PM |
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Think about this again
Quote:
Resurrection is level 4 and won't affect Reds in the first place.
Are you sure it won't. As far as my manual and experience tell me, Resurrection is level 4 and Red Dragons are immune to spells 1-3 levels.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted October 24, 2001 11:10 PM |
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That has already been clarified David. Resurrection does bring Red Dragons back to life again. Somebody was just mistaken.
Yes, Attila, I know you might play games where 15 blacks are pretty rare but.... ummmm....
Hey I had to make it interesting!!!!
Okay let's try again...
Dungeon main with 1 red dragon 50 troglodytes and 14 harpies with a couple of Beholders and 2 manticores. Only level 2 spells unfortunately and he's only got 5 spell points left.
How do you defeat a main like that?! Huh?!
LOOOOOL!
*smile*
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sos
Known Hero
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posted October 24, 2001 11:20 PM |
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easy
I attack with my single black dragon, cast my 1000 damage Armagedon and thats all
It will make more sence if we consider full armies (2 or 3 weeks of troops, for instance) instead, and specify town, heroes, spells, etc. Otherwise, is too general. This can be a nice thead by itself tho.
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attila
Known Hero
Young Warrior
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posted October 25, 2001 09:42 PM |
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Quote:
I attack with my single black dragon, cast my 1000 damage Armagedon and thats all ]
Humm if i didnt just say. what if they have renders cloak and shankels or maybe black orb and shcakels. u crap outta luck. BUt i guess u didnt read that
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¤¤¤ Attila ¤¤¤
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted November 06, 2001 02:12 AM |
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I have a question. Troglodytes are considered as pretty useless troops in big battles, they die very quickly and can't last beyond a single melee round in most cases.
Do you replace them with other troops? What would be your preferred replacement for troglodytes and would you replace them at all if you didn't have leadership as a skill?
I know everyone is going to say Level 7's that's pretty obvious, but what would be your choice if you had no other level 7 troops available?
From level 1-6, what would it be?
*smile*
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2001 02:43 AM |
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Ok
If I had no other units except the ones from my own Dungeon I would replace the Trogs first with the Manticores divided into two seperate stacks, with one stack being composed of most of them, and the 2nd stack not having one single one, but just enough to withstand a retaliatory strike on the unit group I wish to attack barring a paralysis.
If the creature stacks were very large and I would lose more than 2 BD in a first strike; then putting 1 BD up top in the battleline and the rest further down so the first dies but absorbs the retaliation that would have killed 2 or more BD firstly. This tactics is partuclarily effective with BD's as they are immune to spells that might really inconvience you otherwise, such as if you attacked and sacrificed your solitary 7th, then your opponent had a unit with speed to move 2nd blinds your big group of 7ths... etc.
The only other two combinations I could see would be to split the medusas or split the minatours; one for the soning, the other to absorb retaliation, which is one hassle of Dungeon, the Harpies nice, but as the fast unit which is cheap it can't absorb retaliation.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted November 06, 2001 03:02 AM |
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I think if armies got that large, you'd probably also have large numbers of troglodytes which would be far better equipped to take out a level 7 or 2 anyways. Replacing 600 hitpoints worth of trogs with 300 hitpoints of a single black dragon is... wise?
What would you fill the troglodyte gap with if you had a second town though? A second town with no level 7s built yet? Or if you had an external creature dwelling? Would you fill your trog stack with 30 hell hounds? Or 20 zealots?
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AndiAngelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2001 03:44 AM |
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some dungeon thoughts
-the idea with taking fire magic/curse against overlord and barbarian i agree is great, nothing like cursing a whole army and it cant be countered
-in whole thread scorpicores are underestimated (comments like the great mino king, the sucking scorp), i think they are a excellent unit: the are very fast for L6, their special can win you fights, and they fly so theres no hiding from them. ok, hps and defence isnt too great, but no unit is perfect, often a scorpicore saves your butt where a dread knight cant.
perfect unit for filling 7th slot too or example, single scorp that has chance of paralyzing
so to sum if up, my main target against dungeon is always the scorps
-all that blabla about arma is just useless, most maps are without it, and arma is no fun at all so usually it is agreed to not use it by both sides anyway, so forget that "strategy"
to shae: no i would never replace my trogs with some dogs, just coz of the morale effect
to gootch: ya pansy, loynis sux with his learning  sorsha is the castle hero to go with or mullich as ya said if you play AB of course
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted November 06, 2001 03:56 AM |
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Good dungeon heroes usually get Leadership anyway, so the negative effect of morale with mixed races is usually never an issue.... is it?
At last someone has said something positive about serpicores! I thought I'd never see the day. My own feelings about them are a bit mixed, mainly because of their weak hitpoints and 'die easy' attitude. Does that mean that Synca is far too underrated when playing Dungeon? Does Synca make any difference at all to the strength of your level 6's?
I like Synca, I always did like using her (or him) since the day I played Unsung Heroes in HK tourney months ago. Gave me a lot of respect for the creature specialists, although I will only choose Synca over Dace if I'm really in the mood for a huuuge fight.
*smile*
PS: If I'm not mistaken, paralysis poisons the top stack and causes it to lose 50 percent of it's hitpoints per round as well as freezing it?
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2001 04:19 AM |
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Wise or not
Well, you have to remember that in larger army sizes, things still keep their relative worth, so if you had 3000 trogs you'd likely have at least 40-50 BDs. So in that case; it would still be fine to dismiss the trogs if you could get a 49 BD first strike on 50 Titans or GD's for sure. Especially vs the Titans teh first strike would be needed, otherwise you must absorb the ranged attack without retaliation and also first strike on hated creatures is always to the benefit of the creature who strikes first, tehy can do more damage and take less with their full might getting 50% more damage for free, of course they absorb it on retaliation, and also the counter attack, but if you can ensure no gangups it's often beneficial- of course then the other drawback is that Titans can be recycled and BD's cannot... so maybe you wouldn't want to do a first strike afterall, but if you did, then putting 1 BD first would be better than keeping the trogs.
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