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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2008 03:36 PM |
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Nagas have "No enemy retaliations.", which is way better than a 20% chance to paralyze.
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted December 22, 2008 08:29 AM |
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still nagas could easy loose a battle against mantis/scorps
nagas are not superior, only the player using them
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted December 22, 2008 09:12 AM |
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Nagas will tore mantis into little pieces.They r also more useful in army:wait,hit(no retaliation),back.Dont ever expect paralyze or anything like that.Nagas are one of best lvl 6.Take Champions,strong,high speed,jousting attack,only minus no retaliation.
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted December 22, 2008 10:11 AM |
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Yes, you're probably right.
What i wanted to point is that the 2 units are just different. Still scorps can easy defeat nagas, just because they are faster and have a special that can win them this battle.
note that this is in no way relevant to the game, you will never (very rarely) get in this situation where u have 2 scouts, one has a mantis, the other a naga, both posses no book for casting magic (or let's say no mana - more real) and they must fight to win.. but if u got this situation the mantis still has it's chance to win the battle.
just don't take it for given that a single creature is 'best', only you can make it best.
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2008 02:31 PM |
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Well, if there are two scouts with compelitely equal stats, and equaly experienced human players, the nagas will win.
PS: The Magic Elementals are very usefull against big armies.
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted December 22, 2008 07:47 PM |
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Edited by Nikita at 19:51, 22 Dec 2008.
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I have made a proof:heroes have same stats,no artifacts were involved,no morale/luck,no magic and so on,just the 2 creatures.
40 vs 40
Mantis go 1st,i wait.Nagas turn,wait,have to move right after that so i go into the middle where maties are reachable.Manties attack nagas and this is what happens(after retaliation made by nagas):
after that i fly as far away as possible.nagas still can get them,hit without retaliation.I had more then 30 nagas left.Definat win for nagas.The chance for paralyze out of total 1-2 hits(not much)
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2008 08:20 PM |
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Finally a worthy post, unlike all those senceless "Naga Queens are better/worse than Scorpicores"
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 22, 2008 08:34 PM |
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Naga queens shouldn't move first turn but take defense stand.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted December 22, 2008 10:17 PM |
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@Angelito,yes that is even better.I save about 3-5 nagas like that.
Mantis even lose if they paralyze nagas 3 times(checked 16 nagas left).And somehow i played a few battles,and if mantis paralyzed nagas 1 time,2 hit is paralyze too=first i thought it was luck,but that happened 3 time in row.And does paralyze make half retaliation dmg for paralyzed creature?
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted December 23, 2008 09:07 AM |
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Yes, thanks for your time, very pointless, but non-the-less an exercise. Very proving, still completely useless. Of course nagas beat in open battle, this will never happen in a game thou. There is no way you will ever be in this situation, or any similar, but still while you're at it - please be so kind to provide an answer to what is better: the minotaur or genie? Thanks for misunderstanding!
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bloucester
Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
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posted December 23, 2008 11:19 AM |
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Quote:
Naga queens shouldn't move first turn but take defense stand.
and then the scorpicores take defense stand and if the naga queens don't mnove forward, we have a prestigious for the scorpicores draw.
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sub_zero
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 23, 2008 12:23 PM |
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if 1 archangel fight 1 archangel and the first one press the defence button all the time and the other attack all the time, the archangel who pressed defence would win easily  so no, nagas should definitly not press defence in such a test.
nagas are superior to any lvl 6 in one on one situasions. there are situasions where scorpicores are bether, like vs shooters in early game. a lucky paralyze could make the opponent waste a spell in final battle. but i wuold still take nagas over scorpicores any day. A LOT more life and A LOT more damage pluss the no retaliation ability just makes them the best lvl 6 imo. the speed and paralyze chance can't compare to that
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 23, 2008 01:21 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Naga queens shouldn't move first turn but take defense stand.
and then the scorpicores take defense stand and if the naga queens don't mnove forward, we have a prestigious for the scorpicores draw.
Scorpicores can reach, while queens can't. Why should the scorpicores take defense stand, when they are able to hit twice with the wait button?
And the example with the Archangels is just.....yawn....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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bloucester
Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
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posted December 23, 2008 04:34 PM |
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the scorpicores don't want to hit the nagas while they have that defense bonus and therefore take defense stand as well. they want to keep defending until the nagas decide to move forward.
actually, not attacking is the only way the scorpicores can stay alive,
because they don't stand a chance in a 1 to 1 combat (or 40 to 40 in that example). perhaps its only fair to have an equal amount of gold to buy scorpicores and nagas - for example - 100,000 gold which is equal to 62 naga queens and... 95 scorpicores. quite a difference, huh?
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted December 23, 2008 09:51 PM |
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Edited by Nikita at 21:53, 23 Dec 2008.
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@xlnt
Quote:
what is better: the minotaur or genie?
Of course minos are much stronger,but having genies divided in a few stacks and having any exp magic can give u much more then minos dmg.Plus genies have higher speed.
@bloucester
Quote:
the scorpicores don't want to hit the nagas while they have that defense bonus and therefore take defense stand as well. they want to keep defending until the nagas decide to move forward.
actually, not attacking is the only way the scorpicores can stay alive,
because they don't stand a chance in a 1 to 1 combat (or 40 to 40 in that example). perhaps its only fair to have an equal amount of gold to buy scorpicores and nagas - for example - 100,000 gold which is equal to 62 naga queens and... 95 scorpicores. quite a difference, huh?
Nagas get more from defending then socrps,they have higher HP so that makes it even better and if they hit first,scorpions have even less chance.
As for 62 vs 95,that was too much so i reduced the number to 20 vs 30(about same),nagas win with 11 left.And btw,the cost would make a lot sense since u would still buy them no matter what.And u will have about same number of lvl6 in final,if u havent lost them.
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 23, 2008 10:20 PM |
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I know it is pure speculation, as in MP game things are so different than in peaceful threads, but if I had to defeat an human carrying 40 nagas queens with 40 sorpicores I would have at least 6 no retaliations attacks with a huge 34 sorpicores stack. On the other side, if I had 40 nagas I could not use the split advantage. I still say that speed decide a lot.
Anyway, if in an MP game you run around with only sorpicores while opponent has only nagas (unlikely), no matter who attacks, the battle is not so easy for nagas. If correctly splited I end the combat with 33 sorpicores left(got once luck).
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Era II mods and utilities
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted December 23, 2008 11:34 PM |
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Same as Genies vs Mantis:
having 1 stack of genies vs 1 stack of manties,genies die without a lot of dmg done.If u split them into 7 stacks and then u them to just spell cast on main stack then u have chance to win(i did) or at least do a lot more dmg.
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted December 24, 2008 03:59 AM |
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Quote:
the scorpicores don't want to hit the nagas while they have that defense bonus and therefore take defense stand as well. they want to keep defending until the nagas decide to move forward.
Scorpicores WILL reach the nagas in the first turn.
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Fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
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posted December 24, 2008 09:08 AM |
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Scorpicores can fight shooters, naga queens cannot.
Scorpicores can take a unit out of the battle, naga queens cannot.
Scorpicores give you max map movement, naga queens do not.
You hate fighting scorpicores more then you hate fighting naga queens.
Scorpicores fly, naga queens crowl.
Buying scorpicores doesn't totally devastate your economics.
Don't misunderstand me, i love Naga Queens 
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bloucester
Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
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posted December 24, 2008 09:57 AM |
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yes, guys, scorpicores WILL reach the nagas, but you don't want to hit the nagas when they have that defense bonus, OR EVEN MORE, you don't want to hit withouh waiting. therefore, it is most sensible to hit when the nagas don't have a defense bonus, which means when they move forward, and they will eventually move forward, or you will both just hit "defend" all the time.
by pure characteristics, the naga seems better. this cannot be questioned - the price tag shows it as well. but think about it: a naga qeen costs more than a firebird... and when you buy 2 titans and 4 naga queens, you usually say: 'um, where's my gold?'
and, yes, fanko is right, on the adventure map i prefer fighting against naga queens because of their medium speed and susceptibility to SLOW.
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