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Khaelo
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Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2004 11:53 PM |
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Other Side Feedback
This thread is for community feedback on the Other Side of the Monitor. The concept is similar to the Tavern Complaints thread. Feedback includes spam reports, thread transfer requests, complaints, and QP suggestions.
Spam in this thread will be removed. If you don't want to post publically, send a mod an IM. Be courteous, etc...you know the drill. 
Oct. 23, 2004: All right, a word about +QPs. My personal opinion is the more QPs, the better.  Some QPs are going to be politically partisan. It's the nature of the beast in a forum like this. We have a conservative and liberal mod here to keep things reasonably balanced, but we're both human. Unless there is a specific issue with a QPed post aside from its partisan nature, my preference would be that rather than attacking the bonus on that post, people suggest another quality post for a QP to keep things balanced. Thanks.
Edit: top!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted October 24, 2004 01:55 AM |
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Ugh.....
Quote:
Some QPs are going to be politically partisan. It's the nature of the beast in a forum like this. We have a conservative and liberal mod here to keep things reasonably balanced, but we're both human. Unless there is a specific issue with a QPed post aside from its partisan nature, my preference would be that rather than attacking the bonus on that post, people suggest another quality post for a QP to keep things balanced.
How utterly narrow. I'm not going to sit by and watch this happen. In case you don't remember, this forum is home to more than simply americans.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Wolfman
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posted October 24, 2004 02:00 AM |
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These quotes are from a post of Consis in the Bush Supporters thread. Rather than continue the offtopic conversation there, I posted it here, where it belongs.
Quote:
If getting a Qp means checking in with Khaelo to approve it then I might as well hand in all of my stars right now.
Consis, Khaelo and I are a team. Why wouldn’t I check in to see if she would mind, considering it is partisan?
Quote:
Here in the Other Side american partisanship deserves getting a qp.
I really can’t see how you can come to that conclusion, Consis. Where are all these partisan qps? I only see one at the moment, certainly the only one I’ve given.
I’m sorry you feel this way, but the qp stands. There should be more qps being handed out in the weeks to come. Stay tuned.
EDIT:
Quote:
this forum is home to more than simply americans.
What does that have anything to do with? No one said anything about only Americans getting qps. I'm really having a hard time figuring out why you're so upset.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted October 24, 2004 03:12 AM |
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Quote:
Some QPs are going to be politically partisan.
Consis, get yourself straight for a second. Certainly that some QP's have to be politically partisan. In a world with so many parties covering alost all different opinions on subjects, and in a forum about such policy-related subjects, it's unavoidable that all opinions are refelctions of one or another party agenda.
However, even when a partisan QP is given it has to be for a truly exceptional post, a post not full of halfly-baked comments and accusations, but sound logic and reasoning, good critical thinking, and generally something that is infomative to others.
I wouldnt get into that particular post, since it's the mod job to rate, and I couldnt care less about QPs, but what I do care is when someone ruins the respectful attitudes we have towards each other over nothing.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted October 24, 2004 03:27 AM |
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Dear Other Side of the Monitor (OSOTM) Heroes,
Here is my humble request: Let's not ruin something with good intentions before we see how it is implemented.
I have been an HC Member for quite a while now, although in my earlier days I was more of a 'lurker' than a 'contributor', and it has always been my opinion that the posts in OSOTM were of higher quality than the other parts of HC. Just take a step back for a moment and think about how many thought-provoking, in-depth, and highly educational posts you have come across in the OSOTM since you have been here. I bet some of you have learned more about yourself and about the world around you right here than anywhere else in real life. Think about all the wonderful posters that have contributed here: Peacemaker, Private Hudson, Consis, Svarog, Lews_Therin, Laelth, Wub, Defreni, Bort, Bjorn, Hamsi, and those of you I may have left out as a result of my horrible memory. You must also include Khaelo and Wolfman in here as well, not only for their excellent posts, but for the devotion of their free time to keep the passionate and opinionated masses in check.
I, for one, say please allow the Mods to implement their current strategy to reward posters for their time and effort, from which so many of us benefit. There are plenty of other issues on which we could be focusing instead of partisan QPs being awarded.
The best part about this forum is clearly demonstrated by Consis and Laelth's exchange in Bjorn's Bush's Ideology is similar to.... Where else can you engage in a heated discussion, then offer up your hospitialty and friendship as a token of respect for another person's differing opinion? I think the OSOTM is a healthy forum, and I support the Mods' attempt to reward the quality posters as they see fit. I encourage the rest of you to at least give it a chance before you draw your conclusions.
Good luck all and please keep up then outstanding posting and debates. Please take care and be safe in your RL as well.
Respectfully Submitted,
~ Khayman
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Khaelo
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Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 24, 2004 05:39 AM |
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mod hat
Hi, Consis.
You've spread your complaints around a bit, so allow me to collect them into one spot.
From: Valeriy: Member Complaints
Quote:
Other Side of the Monitor thread: Who Are George W. Bush's Supporters?
 http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=10&TID=13538
RedSoxFan3 post awarded qp. I question its qualification for top 2% of all HC posts.
That's your right, and that's what this brand new thread is for. Thanks for letting us know.
Quote:
Other Side of the Monitor moderators: Khaelo & Wolfman
I question an agreement between these two moderators which I believe violates CoC. According to Khaelo the agreement is as follows: "Some QPs are going to be politically partisan. It's the nature of the beast in a forum like this. We have a conservative and liberal mod here to keep things reasonably balanced, but we're both human. Unless there is a specific issue with a QPed post aside from its partisan nature, my preference would be that rather than attacking the bonus on that post, people suggest another quality post for a QP to keep things balanced."
This violates the CoC? How? I'm confused. As you may be aware, Nidghrin chose not to give +QPs at all during his time as moderator of the Other Side. Is that the system you are proposing? Do you have another solution? Personally, I would prefer to reward thoughtful posts over here, but if there is a concensus for a QP-free forum, that is definately a possibility. Among other things, it would make our lives as mods much easier. 
Also, it appears that you misunderstood my intent. This is not an "agreement" between mods. It's a suggestion for member participation in keeping the forum balanced and friendly.
From: Who are George W. Bush's Supporters?
Quote:
I think bort is right but since neither he nor I are moderators(starting to wonder if I should have said yes) then I guess we deserve to be ignored for the complaints we have. If getting a Qp means checking in with Khaelo to approve it then I might as well hand in all of my stars right now.
First, just because the subject of a complaint doesn't disappear doesn't mean it has been ignored. Sometimes it takes time to consider the issue. Sometimes, after considering, the complaint is deemed insufficient and the subject remains unchanged. Mods listen to members, but we also reserve the right to say 'no.'
The second point is teamwork. Wolfman covered this. I check with him before taking certain actions as well.
Quote:
bort is absolutely correct. In the Tavern, Svarog gains a qp for posting two words: "a zebra" Here in the Other Side american partisanship deserves getting a qp. Frankly, I don't know how either of these posts qualify as top 2% material. Far be it from me to question the decisions of the moderators.
You're free to question the decisions of the moderators. What you cannot do is expect us to respond instantly and always in your favor. And when we don't respond in your favor, please don't whine about it. No one is going to mod the forum exactly the way you want because no one else is you. Give us some trust in our authority. Khayman states this beautifully.
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Seriously though, who the hell are these posts supposed to inspire? Isn't that the reasoning for getting a qp? I know for a fact that ThE_HyDrA gives qp's only to those whom he feels are inspiring not only to himself, but also to other members. Yes, I'm afraid I'm going to need some clarification on who these posts inspire. I am at a loss for answers at this point in time. Befuddled, confused, and absent, you name it, that's me. In a word: clueless
Reiteration of QP disagreement. This is the thread for it, so "objection noted."
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 24, 2004 06:45 AM |
bonus applied. |
Edited By: bort on 24 Oct 2004
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For a long time there's been a tradition on HC not to give QPs for any political posts, and there have been quite a few of them, many in the top 2%. I'm sure someone will search through and prove me wrong now, but to the best of my recollection, the first partisan QP given was for RSF's summary of Bush advertisements. The point is, QPs for partisan posts have been very carefully avoided and rightly so. I'm not a huge fan of the CoC, but RSF did swear in the post. Had the post been saying the same thing on the other side, would it have been given a -QP?(for the record, I don't think it should receive a -QP) Quite frankly, it also just wasn't very good or well supported. If you really, really wanted to give a Republican QP, posts by Dargon in numerous threads (notably, in the Attack Iraq thread) were much more deserving as are several of Khayman's.
Although I, personally do not feel that QPs should be given in any of the political threads for precisely the reasons we're seeing here, I especially don't think they should be given when there clearly is no reason the post gets a QP other than being pro-Bush.
Khaelo suggested the following:
Oct. 23, 2004: All right, a word about +QPs. My personal opinion is the more QPs, the better. Some QPs are going to be politically partisan. It's the nature of the beast in a forum like this. We have a conservative and liberal mod here to keep things reasonably balanced, but we're both human. Unless there is a specific issue with a QPed post aside from its partisan nature, my preference would be that rather than attacking the bonus on that post, people suggest another quality post for a QP to keep things balanced. Thanks.
This is an extraordinarily bad idea. Look at the makeup of the board, most of the posts come from the middle-left to left. The idea of a 1:1 liberal:conservative QP distribution means that eventually one will have to give QPs to posts that just say "Kerry Sucks" for the purpose of keeping things balanced. Not to mention the fact that anybody who takes up a moderate standpoint won't have any possibility of seeing a QP come their way.
Edit : Looking back on the post, I see that since I pointed out that it was a violation of the CoC, it has been edited (hello, Wolfman) to change the letters (in no particular order) from t, s, i and h to ****. Now, of course it's my word against others, but I assure you, I did look before I claimed (correctly) that it was a CoC violation.
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RedSoxFan3
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posted October 24, 2004 08:46 AM |
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Alright I felt that I maybe didn't completely deserve that QP, so I went back and elaborated giving the general foundations as to why I hate Kerry and why I like George Bush.
I could have made the post probably 10 times longer.
If anyone is interested in debating the integrity of John Kerry and George Bush. I would be glad to do so. Maybe there are things I don't see in Bush. I know there are things I see in Kerry that some people don't see.
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Go Red Sox!
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 24, 2004 12:27 PM |
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Well RSF I have picked up your gauntlet
As to the nature of QPs, I honestly have no clues as to how they work, and I pretty much doesnt care. Both my QPs I got back when I was an avid TOHer and are both from the TOH board. I might add that both times I was equally surprised 
One idea about QPs for political post springs to my mind. Why arent they given out when a person aknowledges the opposite view after a discussion?
Just an idea.
Regards
Defreni
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Khaelo
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posted October 25, 2004 12:52 AM |
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The QP has been moved to RSF' better supported posts in Minimum Wage. More QPs are under discussion.
I'm certainly not advocating giving QPs to posts solely based on their political slant. When I made my suggestion, it didn't occur to me that people would manipulate the system to do just that.  It was intended as a correction mechanism for percieved imbalance, but if it would throw things even further off-line, than it is indeed a bad idea.
Until this weekend, we have been avoiding political posts with a ten-foot pole. Unfortunately, the line between political and non-political is really fuzzy -- is the Same Sex Marriage thread political? Economic threads like Minimum Wage? Current event threads? Since most issues can be construed as political in some way, shape, or form, we've erred on the side of caution. The result has been a dearth of QPs in a bounty of quality posts. I wasn't happy with this. However, complaints have been few and far between. If the solution is worse than the problem, perhaps the old system is better. At this point, I am open to suggestions and opinions regarding the QP policy on the Other Side.
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RedSoxFan3
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Fan of Red Sox
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posted October 25, 2004 07:44 AM |
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I certainly think that political slants should be treated like other issues. Did that person give support for their opinions.
Can you see where that person is coming from? Can you see why they have that opinion?
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Go Red Sox!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted October 25, 2004 11:50 PM |
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Taken from "Who Are George W. Bush's Supporters?"
Lews Therin wrote:
Quote:
Just find it funny that Wolfboy, who thinks that foxnews is fair and balanced, and makes joke-threads about the Iraqui propaganda minister, cannot even distinguish between quality and what´s-in-the-latest-anti-Kerry-TVspots.
And by the way, it´s not the first time that he tried to "win" an argument by editing earlier postings. What a great display of personal integrity.
First of all, the insults are not needed.
Second, the post was edited before a qp was given out. So I didn't edit to "win" an argument as you say. I'm not even sure I was involved in an argument about the subject. My integrity is fine and doesn't need to be questioned by you, it's very low of you to say something like that.
If you have a problem with me, bring it up here. Put your feedback in the feedback thread. Don't clutter other threads with your insults.
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Peacemaker
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Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted October 30, 2004 09:56 PM |
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Quote:
In case you don't remember, this forum is home to more than simply americans.
Hey Consis! What's up?
I think you may have been thinking of the terminology "liberal" and "conservative" in a more limited sense than it was intended by the mods. While "conservatism" as you and I would use that term is clearly more prevalent in the United States than practically anywhere else in the world, the liberal-versus-conservative spectrum, as I have always understood it, is generally thought of and manifested in a similar way throughout most of the world.
Any non-Americans care to comment on this possible understanding, or misunderstanding, of the use of these terms?
Also, while I can see why you would be concerned about partisan qp's and agree there is a danger of one of the mods being tempted to award a post simply because they agree with it, that's why we have a conservative and a liberal mod, so they can be a reality check for one another. While nobody can be completely objective particularly about politics in the current situation, I believe it is possible for individuals on both sides of the fence to recognize posts that make good points and are thought provoking, even if they don't agree with them. I for one have read many posts by some of the more skillful members (including you) listed by Khayman as well as others, and recognized those posts to be really well written and deserving of a qp even though I may not have agreed with them.
So I guess I am saying it depends on the way partisan qp's are awarded. I think Khaelo and Wolf deserve our support unless and until they clearly demonstrate otherwise.
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted November 02, 2004 11:33 AM |
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Avoiding giving QPs to politically biased posts equals imo to giving no QPs at all, since everything is in its roots political; everything either is or can be made to be a political question.
And as giving no QPs in the sub-forum where probably 70-80% of HCs 2% best posts are, is imo comletely illogical, this is a bad solution.
The way I see it, QPs can best be rewarded to those who instead of just flinging out non-documented/non-explained statements, give thourough reasons for their opinions. It's these posts that inspire to discussion, while the stand-alone statements are more likely to induce spam.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 26, 2004 01:43 AM |
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted November 29, 2004 06:48 PM |
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Right on, Wolf!
You go boy. That qp was well-deserved. Too bad you can't get one for giving one.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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TheRealDeal
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Foobum* of Justice!
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posted December 04, 2004 12:17 PM |
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Personally i believe the Thread: Being Overweight has gone unrewarded, i'm not talking about myself here, but a lot of really nice posts haven't gotten attention, there really a lot of gold there that hasn't been seen, but it's just lying there on the floor ready to pick up.
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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Khaelo
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posted December 05, 2004 11:48 AM |
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RealDeal, which posts do you have in mind? When you first mentioned that thread during the summer, I gave it a closer look and tagged a couple posts. After glancing at it again, there are a couple others I wouldn't mind tagging if people think they're inspiring.
For others who want to look over the thread, it's here.
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TheRealDeal
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Foobum* of Justice!
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posted December 05, 2004 12:51 PM |
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Consis's Posts in general are very nice, especially the ones where he tells stories about friends that has some weight problems.
Especially this post: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=12762&pagenumber=4
It's close to the middle, and it starts with: I would like to tell a story about when I was in the u.s. airforce.
TUM's posts was actually quite funny, and there maybe some potential in it. He diserves imo a QP, maybe not for one specific post, but for giving the thread a ... more happy feeling..
Nidhgrins ESPECIALLY diserves one, which he got.. That was nice =)
Khaymans posts wasn't bad either, maybe not QP worthy.. but definetly worth the read.
I also like my own posts ..
All in all i like most replys.
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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Khaelo
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posted December 06, 2004 08:53 AM |
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Consis's contributions on page 4 look like shoo-ins. QP applied. The others don't particularly stand out to me, but if anyone wants to make a case for one, go ahead.
Only caveat: I'd rather not give multiple QPs to the same person in the same thread in the same month (the bulk of the discusision's timeframe) without unusual circumstances, i.e. something utterly mind-blowing.
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