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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted August 28, 2008 09:52 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 21:58, 28 Aug 2008.
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Super late response, but here goes :
I deleted the corrupted moderators thread because I was so terribly threatened by the scary spammer.. okay that's not tru, i deleted it because it was nonsense. Nothing to do with you 
With regards to why there haven't been QP's in the thread you mentioned, I have to admit that I'm really reluctant to give that type of thread/post a QP because it often tends to get a lot of people out to write their own similar story to get a QP for themselves too. I think it really cheapens the honest intent of the people posting, and IMO just getting a good response from people should be reward enough.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 28, 2008 10:32 PM |
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I really hate to say this but I agree with Pandora. Regardless of my well-known love for Qps, I don't want to get one because of pity. (I would be pity since you give for explaining your really dramatic traumas in the past). QPs or not, it doesn't change anything to the pain I've felt for all these years. It's not me to tell you whether a post is QP worthy or not, not even about mine. Regardless I tell you than I don't want any QPs for that post, unless you value honesty as Quality Worthy (but then Almost every member should get a QP)
I'm trying to live and become honouralby (not in HC, but in RL), something I didn't have had the time to learn for many years. I realise the getting QPs for a traumatic post is a post out of pity, and, Dogmatic and overproud as I am, I wouldn't want it.
Yes, it would encourage other to do this as well, but out of what motive? Would they do it for themselves, out of Need or Simply out of QP-Hunting. Seriously, I don't want that any of my posts would encourage Qp hunters. Not only would that be very annoying overall, it would make me feel bad as well.
So I don't want to have QP for that post; I'll get them eventually over time, for thing I like to do, as it should be.
As for William and Mvassilev, I understand that they can get their QPs. They aren't dramatic naggers like I am, and both are good posters IMO. See for yuorself if you promote them or not.
*Sigh* The world is such a complicated place, and so is HC...
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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pandora
Honorable
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The Chosen One
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posted August 28, 2008 10:41 PM |
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So you understand, I was not at all saying that I don't admire you for having the courage to want to post. I respect everyone who makes that effort to be real on these forums, rather than the more common internet personas that we have to deal with.
It really just puts me in a very uncomfortable spot, because if someone else posts their story and I don't feel it's quality worthy, then they might think I care less about their situations or whatever. Its for the same reason that I won't QP poetry either, things that are very personal to people IMO should be handled differently than other posts.
That said, I did kind of laugh at how ridiculous we've been for lack of QP's in the OSM.
On a verrrrrry quick scan I gave QP's to Corribus, TheDeath and Mvass for the Gave up on believing in God thread. Clearly more are owed, but my breain might burst if I try to reread it all after the day I've had.
If any of you out there have posts that you would like to nominate for QP's, let me know. I won't guarantee that I'll give the QP's, but it would help to have some input
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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antipaladin
Promising
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 28, 2008 10:59 PM |
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i agree with lex here,if i have a say 
qps are given when a post is doing something helpfull for the community
IE: (wog and workshop realisng a mod or some kind of patch or something really magnificent)
in the Glade (winning or conducting a reall good game) in the tribunal(conducting or working out a good system) in the tevern making a good communitive game or itnersting chat. In the vw spamm as you can just to make the mods angery will get you a qp or a peanut
and in osm ? for such threads to recive qp,you should qp every post ever made in the downtimes thread.
Im not saying i dont want a qp,dont get me wrong i love 'em. Its just that i dont want a qp that it seems as i Begged for it.
I want it earned. True sometimes i find some qp potianl threads overlooked,but im not that of a poster arent I?
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types in obscure english
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Lexxan
Honorable
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 28, 2008 11:14 PM |
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I've made a post about QPs in the VW. It belongs here more so I'll repost it here
QPs are given to posts that make HC an overall better place than before. That's why they are called QUALITY points and not RANDOM points, THREAD STARTING points or SPAM points.
If you see a QP awarded, please try to think of the backstory it mostly has. For Instance, Dingo once got only by calling someone a bad noob (something that is very tempting to do now as well). A silly QP one might think, but the backstory was that he got the QP because that post was part of one of the most memorable Fools April Jokes ever made in HC. (brr... long sentence)
Aye, not everyone has the same idea about "QP worthy" posts, but the QPs that are so-called "stupid" almost always have a some kind of backstory that isn't that obvious.
Let's face it, not every Post that is considered "Quality Worthy" by you, is considered "Quality worthy" by the Moderators, but they still remain humans, and will listen to you if you report a Quality Worthy post (and NO, they don't bite). In most cases they simply overlooked it (as happened to meTwice , but I eventually got those QPs).
The most Important thing however is that you DO something you like to do, you do it out of goodwill to improve the community, help out others or to simply show us what you can do (if you're good at it, that is). You shouldn't make Quality posts just for the QP, Most of the time, the mods can see right through that, and even if the QP is granted, they may revert it if they find out (or think) you made it for the QP. (or even give you a penalty instead)
QPs aren't meant as a reward, but as an encouragement to improve the community.
Okay, it may be naivve but that's my idea about QPs
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 28, 2008 11:16 PM |
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who are you adrassing this to? 
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types in obscure english
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 29, 2008 08:45 AM |
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Quote:
who are you adrassing this to?
Originally, that noobguy, Nebdar. Now, No one in particular.
(okay...awkward  )
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Nebdar
Promising
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Generation N
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posted August 29, 2008 11:13 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
who are you adrassing this to?
Originally, that noobguy, Nebdar. Now, No one in particular.
(okay...awkward )
I was not interested when making an thread gow to get QP but is there any statistics counting them.
Next time read the question Lexxan
And if you don't understand something I can explain you, guide you
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted August 30, 2008 12:50 AM |
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Ok, I was given a warning here for, apparently, provoking, harassing, intellectually torturing and trying to mug, rob and murder a poor and innocent member of the forum. Oh and burn his house.
While nationalist provocations written by Albanians in Serbian, in a thread about Georgia are an "interesting way of looking at things" (see the "Di je Srbija" issue), any kind of response to those and similar statements is automatically classified as "provocation and aggravation".
Let's look at the aggravation part of the CoC.
"Aggravation is causing, continuing or increasing irritation or trouble."
Seraphim mentioning Serbia in every political thread in the OSM, in a way that can be called aggravating but it would be an understatement, to satisfy his mental issues or something (cause I really don't understand what's this guy's problem), has never actually seemed weird in the eyes of certain mods. Not to mention personal insults, such as the one when he called me a racist and Angelito refused to warn him because "he wasn't saying that I'm racist, but my opinions are." However I got more warnings and whatnot for responding to that than KD did for openly being a freaking Nazi.
I accept my warning. It was bloody well worth it. But what I don't want to accept is the fact that Angelito (I'm tired of constantly saying "certain mods", cause that potentially includes Pan, and Pan has always been as correct and fair as possible) is sometimes so biased it makes my eyes burn.
I mean, let's face it, someone had to say it. Angelito, I understand you don't give a damn about the entire issue, and that you don't want to know about it, and that you think it's all the same old Balkans crap, but the least you can do is not pick sides. You're a mod in probably the most provocative forum on HC, for chrissakes. And as far as I could see, your reactions were similar toward KD's opinions on Jews. I'd seriously like to see your reaction to a kid senselessly flaming Germany in every OSM thread he can find. And don't give me the "I wouldn't give a damn" story because, let's face it, he'd be penalized and silenced before sunrise.
Maybe Vlaad and TNT were right for simply leaving the forum. Alas, stubborn as I am, I can't go away just yet. I promised Celfious I'll help out with the RP and whatnot, for example. But, as Vlaad pointed out, a forum becomes a whole less enjoyable if 15 year olds are allowed to go around insulting people on racial/national/religious basis.
Sigh.
You know what, never mind. Give Seraphim a QP for his wondrous contribution to the OSM. Penalize me for saying Angelito isn't exactly a competitor for the Fairest Mod Around award. It doesn't matter. I just needed to say this. Somewhere.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 30, 2008 01:17 AM |
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Pandora:
Thanks for the QP. 
Baklava:
What you said isn't anything more provocative than what other members said, and they haven't even been warned. You are correct.
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Eccentric Opinion
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted August 30, 2008 09:51 AM |
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@ baklava
First of all I have to say it was a good move from you to post your complaint here and not in the thread itself
Secondly, I'm glad you admit the warning was well deserved..
No let's talk about the "biased" thing and maybe the OSM in general.
Due to the latest issue refering to that picture TNT brought up, which was originaly posted by Drako_the_noob, the whole OSM is a big topic in the squad lately.
It really seems most of the threads turn either into a religious or a nationalistic quote war. Many of the newer members are younger than 18 and obviously lack in experience and sometimes maturity to handle such issues the way they should be handled. Other members on the other hand seem to be pretty "extreme" oriented to specific topics, like "God", "Balkan" or "Russia", only to name a few examples.
So while it is pretty easy and obvious to find out provocations and aggravation in topics like "God", this is much harder in topics who are nationalistic oriented.
You mentioned this post of Seraphim:Quote:
Here I got somethign for you
2006 - Crna Gora je srce Srbije
2008 - Kosovo je srce Srbije
2010 - Vojvodina je srce Srbije
2012 - Beograd je srce Srbije
2014 - Di je Srbija?
This is a pretty good example, people who are not involved in that Kosova/Serbian conflict, or are not related to slavic people in general, are doing very hard to find this provocative. That's why I wrote this:Quote:
Desregarding the fact he wrote that lines in serbian language (is it serbian?), I do not see a real problem here, especially after I've read the translation.
Maybe because I'm not serbian...not sure.
Any others have an opinion about these lines?
And then TNT responded with this line:Quote:
Sounds like an interesting way of seeing things to me, nothing wrong with that
If someone is personally involed in this issue, he may find this comment sarcastic and provoking of course, but everyone else won't have a problem with that line at all.
Do you get my point?
While you provoke in a pretty obvious way (see latest warning), I have problems to see the provoking or aggravation on Seraphims posts for example. That's why I posted Vlaad's complaint here in the feedback thread to get different opinions. But as you can see, there were none at all. Even you didn't wrote anything about that posts here. So if I am not able to judge it from a neutral point of view, and only 1 member is complaining, my hands are tied.
Nearly the same problem is the picture of Drako. Personally I don't have a problem with that, coz I don't take such things serious. And no, I also wouldn't have a problem with a picture where Michael Schumacher is shown with a Nazi symbol on his chest/arms. I would never feel offended nor provocated by such things. If it would be a picture of me, or a family member...sure...that would be a different case.
So again, I asked around who thinks this picture is "penalty" worthy. The following discussion showed how different a picture / an issue can be seen.
If I would be biased, I wouldn't have asked around, but just ignored it. And why should I be biased anyway? I don't know any of you in private / real life, so what for?
Maybe the best way to prevent such things in the future would be to close threads immediately if they tend to get nationalistic or religious. It really seems those topics can't be handled here, either due to "hate", or "ignorance" (not adressed to anyone specific!).
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted August 30, 2008 12:53 PM |
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I posted my complaint here cause I saw no need of spamming an irrelevant thread in the OSM. You know, like in the good old days when people usually stayed on topic there
Well, TNT saw Seraphim's comment as an "interesting way to see things" and didn't see "anything wrong with that" and then two weeks later he demanded that a guy who posted a caricature about his people get banned.
But this is not about a picture of some Serbian guy with red eyes, funny hat and an AK-47 or whatever. This is an issue that dates back to the first days of Seraphim's posting, ever since the Kosovo thread. Vidoja had a similar attitude, just on the other side of the coin, but he constantly got warned and whatnot. But Seraphim got a serious warning only once, and that was for telling everyone in the discussion, I quote, "STFU noobs!"
The thing is, the "Di je Srbija" thingie that Seraphim posted was originally written and told by Serbs who're skeptical about the future and tend to take things ironically (Serbs actually have an unspoken tradition of dark humour and self-jokes). However, coming from their mouth, it has an entirely different meaning than coming from a pathological anti-Serb. Especially in a completely irrelevant thread.
Now to my favourite part.
Quote:
While you provoke in a pretty obvious way (see latest warning), I have problems to see the provoking or aggravation on Seraphims posts for example.
I provoke in a pretty obvious way.
Provoke.
That means I'm doing it a lot? I did it more than this time?
"A pretty obvious way"... Wait, is it the problem that I told Seraphim some things personally instead of attacking the entire Albanian people? Maybe that's it? I ought to attack him on national basis in the future, like he attacks me? It's ok to be a chauvinist but God forbid you told someone he's ignorant?
Come on.
Please consult older Seraphim's posts (to which pretty much no one reacted either). Such as "little thinking and no thought, is that your motto my friend!" or "why should I argue with a complete fool like you", or perhaps his "so the evils are clearly the serbs" conclusion. Just some examples. You never did ask around whether posts such as those ought to be warned or penalized.
I don't know. If you can't see any provocation or aggravation around this guy I just have no idea what to tell you anymore.
Nationalism, racism and any kind of political hatred call for punishment for those who spread them, not locking perfectly alright threads. Of course, it's easier to just close a thread, but that basically allows the ignorant and hateful to control the forum. "Hey, I can't respond to this point, so I'll just flame everyone and poof - it's gone."
Do you get my point?
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angelito
Honorable
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posted August 30, 2008 09:40 PM |
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Quote:
Well, TNT saw Seraphim's comment as an "interesting way to see things" and didn't see "anything wrong with that" and then two weeks later he demanded that a guy who posted a caricature about his people get banned.
Exactly my point.
Quote:
The thing is, the "Di je Srbija" thingie that Seraphim posted was originally written and told by Serbs who're skeptical about the future and tend to take things ironically (Serbs actually have an unspoken tradition of dark humour and self-jokes).However, coming from their mouth, it has an entirely different meaning than coming from a pathological anti-Serb. Especially in a completely irrelevant thread.
So you pointed it out yourself: Who else than a serbian or anyone from the former state of yugoslavia is able to know "this story" behind that statement? If we would have a Mod from that region, he maybe would have reacted different because he would have gotten the point. I myself didn't get it, as stated, and therefor asked other members.
Quote:
I provoke in a pretty obvious way.
Provoke.
That means I'm doing it a lot? I did it more than this time?
Of course not, don't put in things I haven't said. To make it more understandable perhaps. IF you provoke, then it is easy to see.
Quote:
Please consult older Seraphim's posts (to which pretty much no one reacted either). Such as "little thinking and no thought, is that your motto my friend!" or "why should I argue with a complete fool like you", or perhaps his "so the evils are clearly the serbs" conclusion. Just some examples. You never did ask around whether posts such as those ought to be warned or penalized.
I don't know. If you can't see any provocation or aggravation around this guy I just have no idea what to tell you anymore.
I will do that the next days and see if I can find those phrases. And of course you are correct, those lines needed a warning...at least. Not sure why this didn't happen, but of course not on purpose.
Quote:
Nationalism, racism and any kind of political hatred call for punishment for those who spread them, not locking perfectly alright threads. Of course, it's easier to just close a thread, but that basically allows the ignorant and hateful to control the forum. "Hey, I can't respond to this point, so I'll just flame everyone and poof - it's gone."
I'm sure you kow it is not as easy as u describe it here. Sometimes it is very hard to say who started the nationalistic tendency...who started the hate. But in the end, lately nearly all OSM turned into such things.
Quote:
Do you get my point?
Yes.,
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 30, 2008 10:19 PM |
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Omg,is angelito encaging qoute wars?
meh I think nationalism is overrated. and i think this forum had changed,i cant tell for which side though,but i think people in OSM need to accept other opinions,were having debates or arguments?
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types in obscure english
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TnT_Addict
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Beautiful Liar
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posted August 31, 2008 05:34 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, TNT saw Seraphim's comment as an "interesting way to see things" and didn't see "anything wrong with that" and then two weeks later he demanded that a guy who posted a caricature about his people get banned.
Exactly my point.
Wait so if you're saying that KDs nazi propaganda is also "an interesting way of seeing things" Angelito you're a nazi yourself.
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The_Gootch
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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted August 31, 2008 08:42 AM |
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angelito
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posted August 31, 2008 10:13 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well, TNT saw Seraphim's comment as an "interesting way to see things" and didn't see "anything wrong with that" and then two weeks later he demanded that a guy who posted a caricature about his people get banned.
Exactly my point.
Wait so if you're saying that KDs nazi propaganda is also "an interesting way of seeing things" Angelito you're a nazi yourself.
This reply is a 100% good example for my statement "We should delete/close all religious or political threads in the OSM. Some people seem to have lost the ability to see the main idea behind a line, that's why those threads turn into places full of hate and intolerance.
I will, just for you TNT, explain the "Exactly my point" phrase, coz it seems you really fail to see anything but YOUR point of view.
If you've read my first post on this site, where I replied to baklava, I said:
Quote:
This is a pretty good example, people who are not involved in that Kosova/Serbian conflict, or are not related to slavic people in general, are doing very hard to find this provocative. That's why I wrote this:
 for example TNT! (He didn't find this provocative, but interesting, while Vlaad felt insulted very much!)
Now we have a picture made by a teenager who shows a guy in a carnival costume which looks like a devils costume and has some symbols/words painted on. One of the members (TNT) is getting offended at its worst and demands a ban, while others don't even care because they have no relationship towards jews or WW2 in general.
And the REACTION of you, TNT, in both cases PROOVE EXACTLY MY POINT.
Only if someone is some kind of related to such a thing will find it offensive, insulting, racistic etc.... And will also put a lot more information into such a picture than many others will. To be honest, I would never had come to the conclusion "All jews are devils" when looking at that pic. And for sure no "Nazi propaganda", coz when talking about NAZI propaganda, I fail to see the swastika symbol, which shows the relation to the Nazis.
But if I would be a normal member, and you wrote such a thing towards me "...then you're a Nazi yourself", you would have gotten a different and much more offensive response. And then we would have to come back to baklava, who said "only the ones who spread the hate / racicsm should be penalized. Are you guilty in that case TNT?
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baklava
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posted August 31, 2008 01:53 PM |
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@Angelito
The thing is that an OSM moderator should be able to recognize an offense from any one group to another. Saying "Well, I'm not from around there, I don't understand it and thus can't see it as an offense" won't get you anywhere, unless you want to hire an OSM mod from every country in the world.
And saying "all OSM turned into that" is not really an argument, is it? If you stopped and penalized chauvinism and similar from the beginning, maybe the OSM wouldn't have turned into a civil war in the first place.
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted August 31, 2008 01:56 PM |
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@Baklava, that is why he has made posts asking for members opinions, like most moderators have done in the past. And come on man, he can't know if something is offensive or not if he isn't in their country. That is why he asks people. Why has this turned into an Angelito bash fest now?
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waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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baklava
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posted August 31, 2008 02:08 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 14:09, 31 Aug 2008.
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He made posts asking Australians and Israelis what they think about Albanian puns about Serbian people. And of course no one gave a crap.
Of course there will always be more neutral and unrelated people than offended sides in the forum. See, for an Australian, the "Di je Srbija" pun doesn't make much sense, but a Serb finds it offensive. Just like Jews found KD's posts offensive, and a lot of other people didn't.
You can't ask a platypus whether a mongoose insulted a badger.
And like I stated before, Angelito didn't ask anyone about more offensive Seraphim's posts. He also didn't ask anyone about whether my post should be discussed before it was warned. Because "I provoke in an obvious way", while Seraphim does it in a chauvinist way, which is apparently alright with Angelito since he's not from around here and apparently doesn't understand it.
This isn't a bash fest. It's a well deserved and backed-up complaint shared by several people on the forum. The CoC doesn't forbid that, does it?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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