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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 09, 2008 08:28 AM |
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Quote:
And also answering to Minion: I don't think myself, that hell is important that much. Why are you pondering about it this heavily, this much? Why are you stating again and again: "hell does not exist"? Let it be a literal question, think about it for yourselves. I try and concentrate on this present world with its present problems, temptations and duties. After this? I'm granted eterneal life, whatever it really means. Probably I will find out more about it throughout my life.
And note: Jesus did not talk much about how it is in the "afterlife". Neither "hell" nor "heaven". The kingdom of God is... read his images and understand what he is talking about. I can't do it for you (noone else can).
Hell was talked about earlier, I was responding to that. Why talk about it? Well I would have been intererested about other peoples opinions. I don't think eternal punishment is a minor matter  This life is just meaningles (timewise) in comparison. As for Jesus and his message... There is wisdom in there although I don't believe he is son of god (in literal sense). A lot he talked about has been taken literally when they are not. Even more have been distorted (but not to the extent that Old Testament has, I believe)
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted September 09, 2008 04:33 PM |
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Minion, about the interpretations of the Bible I can tell you that there are many of these and even though I think the Bible is art in some aspect it isn't its major aspect, it isn't that subjective. I believe in an "uppermost and absolute truth". [see, it is this way or that, hard to be both I suppose. I know there's quantum physics and stuff. I'm not going argue about it] So what I want to say with this is, that several interpretations of the Bible are "false". And Jesus himself warned about this. and even some distorted translations are out there so it is hard. There certainly is a reason for calling it "narrow way"
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." and "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Mvassilev: Emotions, thoughts like jealousy, lust etc. can be held in/back. And I don't mean forcing.
Well, I looked in the dictionary what self-immolation means, thanks though  I just didn't understand what's your problem with it or well, why you wrote "No thanks." I just couldn't understand your reaction, happens. However I wanted to highlight that self-immolation is nothing without faith. With the intent entirety I wrote it. The point was that not only murder or greed is a sin but not accepting Christ's sacrifice is as well. All right then...
I have not much else to say, I think we have discussed these things.
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 09, 2008 04:38 PM |
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Quote:
He most certainly isn't! Look, if there's someone breaking into my house, and I kill him, I am a killer (by the definition that killer = one who kills). Does that mean that if he didn't break into my house, I'd still be a killer? Ridiculous. Same here. If there's no one to murder, then he's not a murderer, plain and simple. If there is literally no way to perform that sin (and I don't mean that he's prevented from murdering, unless you're going to say that I'm prevented from levitating), then he is not a murderer. Murderer = one who murders. No murder - no murderer. Simple as that.
Regardless whether or not you killed someone else, you are not pure inside (thoughts etc). That is, on the inside, you're 'dirty' and have no place if you don't want to wash yourself first.
Quote:
According to Christianity, all people are sinners. You claim that people are unhappy because of their sins. Therefore, since I do not repent to God, then that means that I should be unhappy - which is certainly not the case.
You are not wise enough to see how the sins affect you, yet. Remember, the Devil grants you temporary wishes (usually sinning) and fools you in the end you realize you were a fool. Not only the Devil but you will realize it later, I just hope it's not too late (that is, how it will be bad for you, not that God exists or not). Even in Buddhism this is called karma.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 03:22 AM |
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Galev:
You don't see what my problem with self-immolation is? Self-immolation is a terrible thing. It's basically like committing suicide, but you're still alive.
TheDeath:
Quote:
Regardless whether or not you killed someone else, you are not pure inside (thoughts etc). That is, on the inside, you're 'dirty' and have no place if you don't want to wash yourself first.
Thoughts? Cavemen had no thoughts of computers because nothing even remotely similar to computers existed. So if the concept of murder didn't exist in the first place, then the guy couldn't have thoughts about murder.
Quote:
Remember, the Devil grants you temporary wishes (usually sinning) and fools you in the end you realize you were a fool.
I don't recall asking the Devil for anything.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 10, 2008 01:23 PM |
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Quote:
Thoughts? Cavemen had no thoughts of computers because nothing even remotely similar to computers existed.
They could think it up anytime. That is, they could. That's what makes freedom possible. If you restrict the amount of what someone can THINK, then he is a robot, not a free person. Is that so hard to understand?
Quote:
I don't recall asking the Devil for anything.
Oh yeah, because he is your slave, not vice-versa
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 02:27 PM |
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Quote:
They could think it up anytime. That is, they could. That's what makes freedom possible. If you restrict the amount of what someone can THINK, then he is a robot, not a free person. Is that so hard to understand?
Look at it this way. Humans can't levitate. (By themselves.) Does that mean that God, through gravity, is restricting our freedom?
Quote:
Oh yeah, because he is your slave, not vice-versa
Yeah, because he certainly makes me do stuff.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 10, 2008 02:28 PM |
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Quote:
Look at it this way. Humans can't levitate. (By themselves.) Does that mean that God, through gravity, is restricting our freedom?
Gravity affects your freedom to think 
Einstein said: "Gravity is not responsible for people falling in love".
And who said they can't levitate? Their subconscious doesn't think it's true, that's why they can't.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 02:38 PM |
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And who created the subconscious? God. Therefore, he's restricting us. No?
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 10, 2008 02:45 PM |
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The subconscious developed because people believe that way (you can argue that God did it but meh; that's past the point of the Original Sin so I simply don't know. I'm not saying I'm omniscient). Surely you don't expect to be some sort of Superman without any kind of focus or understanding about things. Force is not the solution -- the "magic" barrier is to know how to integrate with the surroundings (levitation, for example, can be considered an "integration" with your surroundings/space/whatever).
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 10:29 PM |
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So let's see you intergrate with your surroundings. Come on, levitate. I mean, though, if God created humans, then he created the subconscious.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 10, 2008 10:34 PM |
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Yeah sure and I am the guy who knows absolutely everything about God and the world that's why you chose me to levitate -- or do you expect me to write "Look I did it!" on the net?
I only know like 0.1% how to control my subconscious lol.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 10:43 PM |
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Come on. If you think you can levitate, do it. If not, then stop saying that the only thing that prevents us from doing it is our subconscious.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 10, 2008 10:46 PM |
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If we stop saying anything that we don't do, then that includes 99% of what we write on the net, which comes from online sources. (note that my opinion above does NOT come from online sources actually but meh).
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 10:59 PM |
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Most of these things we could do, if we had enough money. Levitation by yourself, though - good luck.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Vexon
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 10, 2008 11:08 PM |
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Penguins can't fly because their wings don't support their bodyweight. Penguins don't know jack about gravity and couldn't give a rat's ass if someone told them. Point made; gravity does not restrict thought, merely physics. Human beings cannot levitate without something that breaks the laws of physics. God has nothing to do with it.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted September 27, 2008 10:49 PM |
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted September 27, 2008 11:08 PM |
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Nice find!
Kind of logical except:
*Pageans does not have a cannivalisation ritual
*Still does not hit Buddhist faith
*A few misinprentions and stuff
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 28, 2008 12:11 AM |
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It's amazing how much time and effort people put into analyzing the sincerity of others' beliefs.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted September 28, 2008 12:42 AM |
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Haha, Od made an interesting point, but maybe i'm trying to fight my own doubt in this as well 
Naah, it's all cool 
so let's see:
1) why won't god heal amputees?
I can say: just because and donn't ask stupid questions like that!
But i like to believe I'm better than that. god has little influence on this world and the only thing he affects is our mind set and our vitality. (Btw, free choice somehow is affected by this as well) If you honestly belive that christianity is about miracle working you are sadly mistaken and maybe should participate in a debate more often than just droning on and on about what you believe is right about a matter that's based on a wrong footing to begin with.
You even go as far as to dictate what I believe and throw it all under one banner. Christianity is very widespread and has different beliefs all around (just look at the different groups)
I even know a jesuit (a teacher, not a friend or something) who says that all of God's and Jesus' miracles are all metaphores.
2) Why are there so many starving people in the world?
free will
people have had the chance of exploiting and taking down all others to becomle as fat and rich as they want. It's a sad truth, but it's true. If god were to change this for some odd reason, even if he could, he wouldn't because he would be meddling with whatever his creation is up to.
3) Why does God demand the death of innocent people in the Bible.
Let's see:
-Who wrote it?
-New or old testament?
-Context?
-Thanks for being so presumptuous, I love it somehow and it doesn't make me want to reject this in the slightest way.
4) Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
six days:
6 days? can be in six phases or something like that. I think that death posted a link about something, right? Anyway, this is not the most important part about religion, the facts. They make good stories to get a point across, but anyways, let's continue.
Flood issue:
When the ice caps were melting, a lot of the seas rose and it got stuck in the heads of all mankind, because everyone lived near water in those times. imagine what it's like to have everywhere around you being swallowed by water, alerting our primal fears. If these stories weren't passed on to next generations, then I don't know what does.
Jonah and the fish: Jonah actually cowered and this was a sybol of him turning away from his responsibilities and fleeing. He gets time to think about this (oh, say, three days, perhaps?) and he realises he has to go to the city filled with unbelievers and preach there.
I'll just leave behind th creationism issue.
5) Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery?
Before I listen further:
-I'm very curious to what he says now ^^
ok, let's continue:
Ugh, he doesn't come up with anything actually, maybe someone can find this and quote this, I don't have time.
6) Why do bad things happen to good people
exotic excuse?
let's test it: ok, God is testing me!
yes, it is an exotic excuse ^^ Your point?
No, that's cruel and wrong of me to say. There is a lot of evil in this world. People (free will), and others I suppose, like nature (which is imperfect as God is imperfect, because God is our image and we aren't perfect).
7) Why isn't there any evidence left behind of Jesus' miracles
metaphores...
I'll show you what I mean. The story about the five breads and three fish.
You see, many people gathered at the riverside to see jesus and to hear him speak. Then suddenly, it's getting late and jesus is like: 'awesome, let's just sit here and relax while we all have a meal.' food is gathered and it turns out that 2000 people are only carrying 3 fish and five breads.
At the end of the meal there are 30 baskets filled with bread and fish? No He's twisting the laws of nature! the bastard!
Anyways, I would like to say that perhaps these people were carrying around food, but didn't want to share it. Maybe, during the course of the meal, people did share the food out of pity and stuff. Maybe they changed their opinion and their ideas.
Maybe that was the miracle, changing selfish people to people who care and share.
8) Why has jesus never appeared to you?
Maybe he's with his host or father or whatever or mabe he's doing other stuff or maybe , you know, he's dead...
If the afterlife is even remotely connected t the mundane, I highly doubt that Jesus would have to come to me. There are people with worse problems and Jesus wouldn't help, you nut person don't agree with.
9) Why would jesus want you to eat and drink himself?
Oh, I think it means he wants us to take him in along with what he says and thinks, like a meal. Maybe jesus wants to indicate his sacrifice. He'll die for our sins, that's pretty cool, caring and giving of him, even though it may not be true.
10) Why do Christians divorce at the same rate that none christians do
peopl get married too fast, maybe. Religion isn't the most important factor.
The words of the priest are ritualistic and a blessing, not a pact that forces you together. God is pretty cool I think, when he's not murdering 
now, you make me a bit angry, because you talk so imposingly on me. I will try not to question yourself, but your opinions and thoughts.
'There is no god?' personally, I find this too simple an answer, leaving no mystery. Maybe you hate that, but I like it and noone is harmedand maybe I can accept more of life and it gives me more advantages (for me) IMO. God exists in my head and I don't think I want to see more than this, because I know that you'll just reiterate what you just said, so no thanks.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted September 28, 2008 12:47 AM |
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Yes every religion expands where is poverty and only basic education.
Nice link Angelito.
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