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Aculias
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Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted September 08, 2008 10:28 AM |
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Usually you see a police officer when you really dont want to see them.
They usually always bug you when you do nothing wrong just because they are bored lol.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted September 08, 2008 10:36 AM |
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Some things Bible
Okay.
So first of all I don't know if you'd like any explanation at all. If not, then don't read it.
Minion, I did not learm any theology, so I'm not much competent in the matter of Hell in the Bible. But as for Gehenna: You all know this I suppose:
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Here, the eye of the needle is a narrow (or low ?) gate of some famous city (I was told by someone who learned theology, a priest he is). So it is not impossible to go to the kingdom of God, but with many difficulties.
With this I'm going to say: Jesus used numerous images when explaining about the kingdom of God (by what he did not only mean Heaven). Gehenna is one of these images -I suppose.
Mvass, I'm sorry to say that there's no "innocence". "For all have sinned..." Did you never lie for example? and there are countless many sins in our lives. There are in mine at least. But we are not judged by the law but by grace.
Romans 6, 14-16
"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"
Murderers are not satanists? They do not worship Satan, no they don't. But stop for a moment? Why murder? Why is that so "big"? Really, why, if human is but an animal?... But well, you see, I'm not satanist and many aren't. But I sin (we do). There aren't "bigger" and "lesser" sins. There are sins. Someone who let people around oneself suffer is not "better" than an murderer. but what if one spends all one posesses -though not believing in God?
"And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." (1 Chorintans 13, 3) Where charity (as I was told) is the translation of "Agapé" which is used in the Bible to describe God's love towards the world. In 1 Chorintans chapter 13, Paul is writing about this love, "charity" [I suppose King James translated this to charity to represent grace. In Hungarian it's translated to love for example. In the original it is Agapé]
So if you don't "have his grace in yourself"... An other important point about belief: "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2, 19
About the original sin:
They were told: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. "
They were warned. And they might wouldn't eat if they weren't tempted. How might know? But they did it on their own decision against the only "demand" of God. And we have our conscience. And you [general pronoun here] know about the Bible. Nothing stops you if you may would like to know what God says about certain deeds.
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That's like saying that the police gives you the freedom to murder.
The police only arrest you when you actually do it. They won't stop you thinking and planning. Deeds and results.
I hope this all does not sound like telling off...
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted September 08, 2008 01:46 PM |
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If God doesn't send you to Hell, then how do you get there? 
Because that's the place for sin. Heaven is not the place for "pleasure" automagically -- it is precisely BECAUSE people there are not sinners.
Hell is like karma. You suffer because of yourself, because you LIKE to sin, and because you are not SORRY for it. (which God would forgive, since He loves you thus: however, you have to be HONEST about it and cleanse your inner self from sin).
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As far as I'm aware, most murderers aren't Satanists. In fact, since 95% or so of the US population is Chrisitan, it makes sense to say that most American murderers are Christian too. But Christianity is based on loving God...
LOOOOOL. WTF are you talking about? When did I say anything about Satanists? Do you think Christians have a "free ticker" to Hell  That's childish.
It doesn't matter what you are atheist, christian or satanist. If you sin, you sin. That is what makes you go to Hell, not believing in God. Believing in God only makes it "easier" to repent. That's all.
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Hey, what happened to "innocence"? If you don't realize that you're doing something wrong, then you are innocent, are you not?
Of course you are aware, only that you choose to ignore it 
As for the original Sin, they did so because of human's curiosity. That story is excellent from a metaphoric point of view (even if it isn't true). Philosophically it describes the nature of man. They ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Because of their curiosity for knowledge.
But with knowledge also comes knowledge of suffering, good and evil, etc. Thus, suffering exists because of this "desire". You want to know what suffering is, since you want knowledge
It also explains how cowardly and not honorable most humans are: Adam, instead of seeking forgiveness, tried to "hide" from God. It's a good philosophical story regardless whether you believe it's true or not.
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That's like saying that the police gives you the freedom to murder.
Look at it likes this. A satanist kid wants to suicide. Will a loving mother prevent him? Let's say that he "is in his right mind" (not crazy) and that if you prevent him, he will HATE you for that (and thus not be happy, not that he would be otherwise, but he will be free at least). If you don't let him do it, it's similar to dictatorship.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2008 02:36 PM |
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Galev:
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I'm sorry to say that there's no "innocence". "For all have sinned..."
The concept of a sin without volition is a horrible one.
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Someone who let people around oneself suffer is not "better" than an murderer. but what if one spends all one posesses -though not believing in God?
In other words, self-immolation. No thanks.
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The police only arrest you when you actually do it. They won't stop you thinking and planning. Deeds and results.
Yes, but if the police knows that you will try to murder someone, they will try to stop you. If God knows (and he does) that you are going to do something that is a sin, then he will do nothing.
TheDeath:
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Hell is like karma. You suffer because of yourself
Who or what makes you suffer? Why is it that you suffer? If you aren't sorry for what you did, why would you suffer because of it?
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LOOOOOL. WTF are you talking about?
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Of course you don't expect murderers that hate God, for example, to go to Heaven
I wasn't aware that murderers by definition hate God.
And I'm saying that many sins are not conscious, so the concept is flawed.
As for original sin, if God didn't create suffering in the first place, then human beings wouldn't have found out what suffering is. It's like a caveman not knowing what a computer is.
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A satanist kid wants to suicide. Will a loving mother prevent him?
Yes. If she doesn't, she's a horrible mother.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
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Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 08, 2008 02:47 PM |
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Who or what makes you suffer? Why is it that you suffer? If you aren't sorry for what you did, why would you suffer because of it?
I'm tired of explaining this thing all over again 
If you want a similar approach, study karma. It may not be true, but it explains this stuff. It's not Christian related (it's buddhism) but it is similar.
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I wasn't aware that murderers by definition hate God.
And I'm saying that many sins are not conscious, so the concept is flawed.
As for original sin, if God didn't create suffering in the first place, then human beings wouldn't have found out what suffering is. It's like a caveman not knowing what a computer is.
So? They ate from the tree because they WANTED knowledge, and this means suffering as well.
When a guy WANTS something, if you LOVE him, you GIVE IT TO HIM. You can warn him that it's bad for him, but if he WANTS it, you GIVE it to him (and he/she is not out of his/her mind obviously). If that's his/her nature, hiding the stuff from him/her will NOT change his/her mentality.
How many times must I repeat that example with the chained killer? A killer, which by his nature is that way, and likes to kill, is no less evil if he is chained up and "looks peaceful" because he can't kill. On his inner self, he IS still evil. Period.
But you know what's funny? maybe Stalin was a good "father" after all -- I mean if someone else did not agree with him, and wanted to do something else, you're a horrible "parent" if you respect his wishes. Thus you need to force him and make him hate you -- that's a good parent. I love sarcasm.
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Yes. If she doesn't, she's a horrible mother.
Psychology. The kid will hate his mother for that, till the end of his days (he wants to suicide remember? and he's not crazy). Therefore, that would be a horrible mother.
If you love someone, you accept him/her as he/she is, and respect what he/she is like and wants, not force him/her to do whatever you FEEL it's "ok" or not, if they don't want.
Seriously dude, it's basic psychology.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted September 08, 2008 02:57 PM |
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@ TheDeath
I feel the "senseless" in discussions with you, because when you lack in "reasonable" arguments, your responses getting...hmmm...what can I say without offending you...."strange".
You now question a child knows her Mom exists, because she only sees her with her eyes. ONLY? She can also feel her, hear her, maybe smell her.....She can registrate her with ALL her senses. Would you be so kind and not question even the obvious things in life, just to try to prove YOUR belief?
Or do you doubt the computer/monitor you are sitting in front of while you are typing this exists?
I think there have to be at least some basics, believers and atheists have to agree upon to be sure to have some kind of "reasonable" discussion about God or things like that. You question nearly everything...be it maths, eyes, evolution...whatever. Do you know this way of thinking leads to "extremism"?
"Everything" is wrong/questionable/doubtfull/not real....except God.
- "I have seen my mom...have you seen God?"  Eyes can create illusions.
- "I have touched my mom...have you touched God?" Hands can be lead by the devil...
- "My mom has punished me for doing things the wrong way...has God punished you?" Everytime when I am sick, it is God's will
- "My daughter and her friend had an car accident, both came to the hospital with life threat. Me, my husband and our whole family believe in God since we are little babies. We go to church, my husband even is a preacher. We pray every day. The mother of my daughter's friend is a who*e, the father is a known drug dealer and in jail for the next 20 years. I was praying for the life of my daughter.. But she died 2 days after the accident, while the friend survived. Why doesn't God help me? Why do prayers not work?" No one can explain God's will. ()
Those answers are typical for people who think the way you do. Don't you think the majority of the others, who read and listen to those "explanations" get pretty sick after time?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2008 03:00 PM |
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With this I'm going to say: Jesus used numerous images when explaining about the kingdom of God (by what he did not only mean Heaven). Gehenna is one of these images -I suppose.
An image of hell, rather than kingdom of God you mean? It is true that kingdom of God is mentioned on many passages, and it is further elaborated by parallels or images as you call them. Hell is not. If there is a place like Hell, why isn't it properly meantioned then? Why only use Gehenna or the like? Because it was never meant to mean hell (as in eternal punishment) as I came a long way at my previous post to show.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted September 08, 2008 03:08 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 15:10, 08 Sep 2008.
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Angelito I thought I had explained that in this thread 10 times already. I am not saying "God" is more obvious than your eyes. But you say that the mother is obvious why God is not. My arguments are not to prove that God is more reasonable. My arguments are to show that the "obvious" things are similar.
In the end, I am NOT questioning computers etc because I am NOT questioning God either. What you fail to realize is that I have been "objective" above. That is, if someone questions God, and doesn't question his eyes, then I have tried to find reasonable arguments that he SHOULD, or otherwise it's just "a matter of preference" and thus similar to a religion.
Thus my goal was not to show that God is more real than anything else -- but rather that the "obvious" things are well, just a matter of preference. That's it. For example, when I pointed out examples that you can "doubt" even your experiences, they weren't meant to say that you can't doubt God -- they were meant to say that if you doubt God, you SHOULD doubt those, unless you have preferences, which was my whole point.
Example:
Person A: I dismiss X because...
Person B: if that's the reason you dismiss it then you should also dismiss Y, because...
Thus the goal here is not to show that Y is better than X or "more real" than it, or that you should not question Y but question X (which is your interpretation of my posts). The goal is to show that if you doubt Y for some reason, then some of that doubt, you can also apply to X.
For example, when I say that science is based on a LOT of postulates, I don't mean that I don't believe them -- after all I believe in God so I don't find problems in "believing". However, when atheists say that they don't believe in God because it's a "belief", then they should have a problem believing the postulates as well, if being a "belief" is the reason. (but that is a subject i have debated in this thread I won't feel like explaining it again).
And things aren't "obvious" for me JUST because they are interpreted with the five senses. After all, philosophy has to start with thinking first, not senses. 
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mvassilev
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posted September 08, 2008 03:10 PM |
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If you want a similar approach, study karma. It may not be true, but it explains this stuff. It's not Christian related (it's buddhism) but it is similar.
I looked at it. Immediately, I saw a difference. Karma is volitional. Sin is not necessarily volitional. Also, it still doesn't answer my question.
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So? They ate from the tree because they WANTED knowledge, and this means suffering as well.
Yes, but God created suffering in the first place. Look at it like this. Let's say that a little kid is standing at a door. Behind the door is a vicious dog. The little kid asks for the door to be opened. First, no parent would open this door as long as there's a dog behind it. But God does. Also, God could have never created this dog in the first place, and then the kid wouldn't be deprived of anything, since it (the dog) would never have existed.
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How many times must I repeat that example with the chained killer? A killer, which by his nature is that way, and likes to kill, is no less evil if he is chained up and "looks peaceful" because he can't kill.
If you want to use such an analogy, then at least be more accurate. If this analogy would be accurate, it would say that the killer can't kill because he both has nothing to kill and is not aware of the concept of killing.
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Psychology. The kid will hate his mother for that, till the end of his days (he wants to suicide remember? and he's not crazy). Therefore, that would be a horrible mother.
Nevertheless, parents are supposed to look out for their children. It's what they're supposed to do, regardless of whether their kid will hate them for it or not. And I think that wanting to suicide is certainly a form of craziness. Only a horrible mother would let her kid suicide.
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TheDeath
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posted September 08, 2008 03:19 PM |
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Yes, but God created suffering in the first place.
If people WANT it, they have it. It's called absolute freedom. It's called love. God warned them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, they did. They wanted to. Why should God prevent them and force them? Just so they can hate him? Hatred has no place in Heaven.
You don't solve anything by not making someone aware of something. His inner essence is the same.
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If you want to use such an analogy, then at least be more accurate. If this analogy would be accurate, it would say that the killer can't kill because he both has nothing to kill and is not aware of the concept of killing.
Apart from saying that my analogy doesn't work, your other remarks is extremely silly, to put it nice.
If he is now "aware" of evil this does not mean that he does not CHOOSE evil. For example, if someone is not aware of religion, but he WOULD have chosen the religion if he were (let's say you travel back in time etc), then that person is religious, if you're omniscient.
Limiting his possibilities and not being aware of something means you restrict his freedom. That's what he is. You don't change it by not allowing him to get out of your town or even make himself aware of it. You DON'T CHANGE IT. Period.
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And I think that wanting to suicide is certainly a form of craziness.
The kid thinks the same about you. Who's right? Who are you to judge? Nevertheless, preventing the kid from suiciding DOES NOT CHANGE HIS MENTALITY regarding it, worse it will make him hate you.
Mvass, here's a description of it:
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No one with even a single sin can enter God's presence (Heaven). In that way, Heaven remains pure.
If you tell God over and over that you don't want Him, sooner or later, he will grant your desire, permanently. That is Hell. Simply put, when you Sin and are not sorry for it, don't recognize it as being "bad", then you don't want God, because that's what God is.
You must be sorry for your sins NOT because of fear, but because you have to realize and be truly sorry for them, that they are "bad". Period.
You don't change someone's mentality by not presenting him all options or FORCING him to something. Do you get this? Geez it's like I'm talking to the walls.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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angelito
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posted September 08, 2008 03:38 PM |
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In the end, I am NOT questioning computers etc because I am NOT questioning God either. What you fail to realize is that I have been "objective" above. That is, if someone questions God, and doesn't question his eyes, then I have tried to find reasonable arguments that he SHOULD, or otherwise it's just "a matter of preference" and thus similar to a religion.
Do you question Harry Potter exists in real life? Millions of people have read "his" books. More Harry Potter books than Bibles have been sold in the entiry world now. You can't see him (forget about the movies...there are movies about God too....), you can't talk to him. So...is he real?
Is this a question of "preferences"?
Do you question ice hockey playing gremlins in the Central Park of New York? (I know this sounds ridiculous, but it helps to show my point..) Is this a question of "preferences"?
I'm not sure if you know where I want to go here. I just want to express some things imho are not "preferences", but "obvious". Existance of something you can see, fell, touch, smell isn't a preference I think, but obvious. Because I think everybody, who has his/her 5 senses get's the same result. While on the other hand, if you can't see or touch something, it may end up in a preference, because if it is only in your mind / in your fantasy, you will get 100 different descriptions if you ask 100 different people. This is never obvious.
And I think we can agree upon the fact, existance of God belongs to the second part, because as far as I know, no one has seen or touched God so far.
And yes, I am aware of the fact the brain can trick us refering to things we see. But mostly it is the other way around...our brain fools us seeing things which aren't present at all (Fata Morgana for example), but hardly the other way around (things can't be seen, but are present...)
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted September 08, 2008 04:09 PM |
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Do you question Harry Potter exists in real life? Millions of people have read "his" books. More Harry Potter books than Bibles have been sold in the entiry world now. You can't see him (forget about the movies...there are movies about God too....), you can't talk to him. So...is he real?
Is this a question of "preferences"?
Yes it is somewhat a question of preferences, depending on the people. When I'm saying that science requires "belief" as well -- I do not discredit it at all. And personally I have no problem with the beliefs used in science (postulates): after all, I have no problem with believing in God either. In short I have no problem with beliefs.
In my posts i have only noted that there are things similar to God, not that I wanted to make God look like it's a better belief or anything. Kinda like "You don't like X because of Y, but then Z requires Y somewhat as well, yet you like it" or something like that
(personally, again, I have no problem what-so-ever with the preferences; that's why I said I am trying to be objective).
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And I think we can agree upon the fact, existance of God belongs to the second part, because as far as I know, no one has seen or touched God so far.
Well if you're referring to the five senses, then of course God doesn't "touch" you, or one of your five senses.
What I find wrong is that some people immediately dismiss your inner "feelings", such as when you meditate, as being illusions, but they do not ever do so with their five senses. After all, everything gets processed by the brain.
For example, at least this can be demonstrated, there is a certain "blind spot" where the brain makes up what you see (and it's reproducible unlike hallucinations; just because it isn't reproducible doesn't mean it doesn't exist either).
Blind Spot
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The first conclusion drawn from this little experiment is that, although each eye has a blind spot, some sort of intelligence is used to give this area not only a likely colour, but also to fill in lines that pass through the blind spot - rather than just have a fuzzy grey area. The net result is that, with one eye closed, it isn't immediately obvious where the blind spot is, because it has been given a suitable colour, and even pattern, based on what is adjacent to it.
The second conclusion drawn is that what we see is not just what has appeared on the retina, but is an image that has been reprocessed, tidied up. And if the human visual cortex is able to tidy up the blind spot, then it may well be that the same is being done for the entire visual field - that what we get to 'see' is not what appears on the retina, like a photograph, but instead something which has a whole bunch of special effects added.
If so, then we can't trust our eyes. We're being given doctored information, massaged figures. The world that we see is not something out there, but a world that we invent. The world I see is my idea.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2008 05:28 PM |
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What I find wrong is that some people immediately dismiss your inner "feelings", such as when you meditate, as being illusions, but they do not ever do so with their five senses. After all, everything gets processed by the brain.
For example, at least this can be demonstrated, there is a certain "blind spot" where the brain makes up what you see (and it's reproducible unlike hallucinations; just because it isn't reproducible doesn't mean it doesn't exist either).
I agree with you on that the inner spectrum of a human feelings and sensations are more than considerable. But when our senses can fool you to think there are objects where really isn't, cannot your "feelings" fool you to think there is a god when there isn't? After all, everything gets processed by the brain, you said
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted September 08, 2008 05:37 PM |
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mvassilev, Why did you think there's "a sin without volition". And what do you mean? You mean that it's horrible that a new-born baby is a sinner? I can't tell anything about this, I'm sorry for that. If you do would like to know a Biblical answer for it, I will be able to tell you the end of this week, after asking a friend of mine who is a priest. Let me know if the question (and the answer for it) interests you, here or viw HCM and I'll post about it. It is a good question I think.
If you did not mean that, then please let me know.
What a bout self-immolation? I don't really catch the intent behind that sentence...
About not preventing sin: For me it's not such a big problem. I sin(ned), I knew/know it is sin but I do/did it. But God says: "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee." (Isaiah 44, 22)
And also answering to Minion: I don't think myself, that hell is important that much. Why are you pondering about it this heavily, this much? Why are you stating again and again: "hell does not exist"? Let it be a literal question, think about it for yourselves. I try and concentrate on this present world with its present problems, temptations and duties. After this? I'm granted eterneal life, whatever it really means. Probably I will find out more about it throughout my life.
And note: Jesus did not talk much about how it is in the "afterlife". Neither "hell" nor "heaven". The kingdom of God is... read his images and understand what he is talking about. I can't do it for you (noone else can).
(I did not read the quote wars. That's why I don't react for anything might be posed to me, sorry.)
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TheDeath
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posted September 08, 2008 05:53 PM |
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I agree with you on that the inner spectrum of a human feelings and sensations are more than considerable. But when our senses can fool you to think there are objects where really isn't, cannot your "feelings" fool you to think there is a god when there isn't? After all, everything gets processed by the brain, you said
That's my whole point Minion. Using that argument is bad because it applies both ways! Of course it CAN be a hallucination, just as you can "see" hallucinations with your eyes. That is, both share the same. You see, I haven't been trying to prove God at all, but more like showing it applies both ways. (my arguments weren't pro-God so to speak).
I'm glad finally I won't need to repeat myself and someone got my point. 
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TheDeath
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posted September 08, 2008 06:06 PM |
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(I did not read the quote wars. That's why I don't react for anything might be posed to me, sorry.)
You know I'm seriously done with quoting wars with mvass. AFAIK I already discussed this page ago, and he did use the same questions. the SAME. Why do we discuss?
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mvassilev
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posted September 08, 2008 10:48 PM |
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TheDeath:
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If people WANT it, they have it. It's called absolute freedom.
Okay, then. Imagine, then, that only one person is alive in the whole world. Now, let uss say that if he were not the only person, he would have become a murderer. Yet he has absolute freedom - no one is going to try to stop him from murdering. Nevertheless, he can no more murder than I can levitate. He has absolute freedom, no?
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His inner essence is the same.
A kid who grows up in a poor neighborhood and falls under the influence of drugs is a stoner. So are you suggesting that if this kid grew up in a rich neighborhood and learned at an early age that drugs are bad, he still has the "essence" of a stoner? Ridiculous.
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Limiting his possibilities and not being aware of something means you restrict his freedom. That's what he is. You don't change it by not allowing him to get out of your town or even make himself aware of it. You DON'T CHANGE IT. Period.
No, you don't get what I'm saying. If no dogs existed, then the kid couldn't have been mauled by a vicious one, now could he? Same here. It's like filling a kid's room with spikes and warning him not to impale himself, then locking him in the room.
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The kid thinks the same about you. Who's right? Who are you to judge?
His parent? Isn't that what parents are supposed to do? Or should parents just say, "You shouldn't do this. Or maybe not."?
Galev:
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Why did you think there's "a sin without volition".
Some sins (like murder) are performed with volition. Other sins (like, say, jealousy) aren't.
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You mean that it's horrible that a new-born baby is a sinner?
Yes.
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What a bout self-immolation?
You suggested that people have an obligation to help others, and that it's morally good for them to spend all they have. That's self-immolation.
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From earth
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posted September 08, 2008 11:13 PM |
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Openmindedness and willingness to believe in a power greater than ourselves is all that is required to make a beggining. Resign from the debating societies of who is right and who is wrong. Choose your own conception.
~ Bob Bobithon
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 08, 2008 11:25 PM |
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Okay, then. Imagine, then, that only one person is alive in the whole world. Now, let uss say that if he were not the only person, he would have become a murderer. Yet he has absolute freedom - no one is going to try to stop him from murdering. Nevertheless, he can no more murder than I can levitate. He has absolute freedom, no?
Your analogy proves that you don't even understand what I say
But just to play your game and cut the quote wars, I will say that in your analogy, which is open to holes, the man is still the same. It gets more complicated when he has a choice to disturb "others" who also have free will (and I WON'T go into that here).
Suffice to say (as you obviously like to debate, since I detailed this in my previous posts, but meh you always twist it with stupid quotes) that Heaven is "peaceful" and "happiness" BECAUSE of it's purity, because no one there has sins and is pure (because they realized and were sorry for them). Bringing there a sinful person makes as much sense as putting an apple in the CD-ROM and expecting to read some data. It isn't compatible. Period.
Nothing to do with bad people having happiness -- they are not happy and suffer because of their sins. In Heaven, they would be the same. Remember, it's not a "place" in 3 dimensions since it is outside space.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 09, 2008 03:29 AM |
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But just to play your game and cut the quote wars, I will say that in your analogy, which is open to holes, the man is still the same.
He most certainly isn't! Look, if there's someone breaking into my house, and I kill him, I am a killer (by the definition that killer = one who kills). Does that mean that if he didn't break into my house, I'd still be a killer? Ridiculous. Same here. If there's no one to murder, then he's not a murderer, plain and simple. If there is literally no way to perform that sin (and I don't mean that he's prevented from murdering, unless you're going to say that I'm prevented from levitating), then he is not a murderer. Murderer = one who murders. No murder - no murderer. Simple as that.
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Bringing there a sinful person makes as much sense as putting an apple in the CD-ROM and expecting to read some data.
Hey, if the apple wants to be there, why not?
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Nothing to do with bad people having happiness -- they are not happy and suffer because of their sins.
According to Christianity, all people are sinners. You claim that people are unhappy because of their sins. Therefore, since I do not repent to God, then that means that I should be unhappy - which is certainly not the case.
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Eccentric Opinion
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