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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted September 28, 2008 04:28 AM |
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@OD:
why does anyone put time and effort into all the other pointless things that people do 
Quote:
3) Why does God demand the death of innocent people in the Bible.
Let's see:
-Who wrote it?
-New or old testament?
-Context?
-Thanks for being so presumptuous, I love it somehow and it doesn't make me want to reject this in the slightest way.
For a start, the Abraham sacrifice story, which is one of the most ridiculous passage in the whole bible. From earlier:
Take Abraham for example, when he was stupid enough to attempt to butcher his own son in the name of "faith" (or infanticidal insanity)
For a start, God says "Thou shalt not kill", so this is a double standard of god asking him to kill his sone. SUre, God can change the rules, but how did Abraham know that it was god talking? Perhaps it was the devil trying to fool him? Or maybe his mind was playing tricks? Or maybe god was testing him in a cunning way, to see if he has so little moral fibre that he will kill his son at the command of a voice in the clouds?
All of these possibilities seem far more plausible than the idea that God actually wants Abraham's son dead, since what kind of loving God would command such a barbaric act?
There are so many other examples in the book it's not funny.
What about the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah?
What about the people below Mount Sinai?
What about the killings of the followers of other religions in Deuteronomy 13?
What about condoning the rape of a wife as punishment to the husband in 2 Samuel 12?
What about the sentencing of blasphemers to death by stoning in Leviticus 24? (not to mention shaving eating shellfish)
What about the Israelites who sacrificed to Baal (because rival gods are so important when you're the only god  ), who God ordered to have them decapitated?
What about when God drowned the whole world except for Noah and the animals?
These questions are of course for people who actually follow the Bible. If you pick and choose which scriptures you prefer to believe and those you don't, then, well.. that's not really Christianity.
You might discard the whole Old Testament, but remember that the New Testament states that all of the Bible is the word of God. If the Old Testament is not false and man-made, then all of the bible must be false.
If the Old Testament (particularly Adam and Eve) is a metaphor, then then Jesus had himself tortured and executed in a vicarious punishment for a symbolic sin committed by a nonexistent individual.
Also here's a question that I think is interesting:
What if the Devil is the mastermind behind the bible 
____________
John says to live above hell.
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MrCash
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 28, 2008 04:54 AM |
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I agree with just about everything written in the first post. But I personnally find it very depressing to think that in death, nothing happens...as if you were asleep or unconcious. Compare that with being an angel, up in the heavens...or pehaps being reincarnated.
I believe that religion, in small doses, can make the lives of the general population better. They end up fearing death less and can even reduce crime because of the morals religion gives. On the other hand, extreme religion is VERY bad. It creates terrorism, and there have already been many suicides and sacrifices made for gods in the past.
I believe in science more than in religion. But Ill always have that hope that there is at least a peaceful, happy after life...or reincarnation.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 28, 2008 05:00 AM |
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Quote:
@OD:
why does anyone put time and effort into all the other pointless things that people do
We don't have anything better to do with our time. 
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted September 28, 2008 11:52 AM |
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Quote:
Also here's a question that I think is interesting:
What if the Devil is the mastermind behind the bible
What we reffere to as the manifest of evil? Its more than plasuable, maybe the devil even invented worthship? Its more than plausable, it would also fit the bloody religion of history as we know if. Unless your a buddhist 
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted September 28, 2008 02:05 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 14:08, 28 Sep 2008.
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Quote:
10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer
I think that video explains well how rationality is either subjective, or the guy is completely irrational.
He wants to appeal to the public. Here's a very simple example of a phrase that shall I say, doesn't fit the creteria of what that guy is talking about (quote from him):
Quote:
Just because you work on the wrong day of the week, you must die? That makes no sense does it? In fact, if you think about it, you realize that it is insane.
Insanity... very good rational argument [/sarcasm]
That pretty much makes his whole speech ridiculous. How can it not make any sense? In fact, what has SENSE got to do with THIS? That's like saying: "That terrorist is going to kill everyone including himself! It makes no sense, does it?". Seriously what has SENSE got to do with THIS? That terrorist can just as well do it. Does it make sense?
What kind of question is THAT? It makes absolutely no sense to put up a question like that in this context. Remember that quantum mechanics made no SENSE to Einstein either. What is this "sense" anyway, can you measure it? If the world is full of people like in that video, then I am not surprised to see this "sense" religion spread all over! In fact I doubt he even took the time to study it properly.
He starts up with a cool introduction to appeal to the public, instead of going straight to the point. At least he knows how to handle in politics, that's for sure.
Personally, I've seen a lot more convincing arguments from guys that TOOK THE TIME to at least read and study the problem properly. God is not a toy. He is like a parent. If you abuse and use your parents or use them because you don't trust them and want them to "prove" themselves in front of the camera (for example) they're most likely not gonna do it and be disappointed in you.
I love Question 7 though, because he is too narrow minded as well. That there's no "evidence" for Jesus' miracles, or maybe you meant, not something that applies in "sense" whatever that means, because you see, if we find some kind of 'stuff' or 'evidence' we can't recreate history from them just like that -- we often interpolate on what we call "normal" or "makes sense" -- if we were to see a strange artifact and a written text that said demons were here and made Stonehenge (EXAMPLE!), we wouldn't say "that's true" would we? Since eh, that makes "no sense" to us people -- of course that doesn't apply the other way around, if we were to see a "reasonable" text
All the words above in quotes are BASED ON BELIEFS. Assumptions, beliefs, and other stuff about our world. To make this easier, i'll use the "anti-belief" arguments people use against religion:
Just because we believe in that way doesn't make it true, does it?
Isn't that the anti-belief system? So then if we USE OUR BELIEFS to "create history" or all that stuff, how do you expect to fit it with the "miracles"? That's like witnessing a lightning bolt but everyone believes it's fake and makes no sense thus it is an illusion. How do you expect to find evidence when you CONSTANTLY FIND A "DIFFERENT" EXCUSE/EXPLANATION to "explain" it because the other one "won't fit with rationality our belief"?
You know something? I'm tired of people saying that they are rational. I'm tired of people saying that rationality is NOT a subjective belief. I'm tired of people using it in arguments and expecting it to be better than a belief-argument or that of a guy who has a different 'rationality'.
This is an interesting quote from the comments on that video:Quote:
The reason it makes no sense to you is because you think you "know" and in reality you only "believe".
Quote:
Question 8: How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
Who said He didn't? It's not my fault people dismiss it as illusions, see? It's easy to say He never appears when you are PREPARED to dismiss it as an illusion.
oh and I know how to program software, so I guess i use my "mystical" powers to do it.
(oh and btw, so you don't take me as bashing only this video, I have seen a LOT of religious videos with similar non-sensical arguments, attempting to explain all kind of religious stuff with this belief system, which is FAIL as well)
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2008 02:53 PM |
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Those "10 questions" suck big time. I've watched it and all I can say is that I don't need to invent any stupid excuses for God.. The guy who created it tried hard, but failed to impress me. Sorry
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angelito
Honorable
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proud father of a princess
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posted September 28, 2008 08:55 PM |
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This reply is soooo typical "TheDeath"-style.
You do not try to answer a question, no...you try to explain what is wrong in the question itself. Be it a word, a phrase or a letter.
It is asked where the sense is in getting killed when working on the wrong day a week, and then the word "sense" is questioned . Unbelievable
Ok..now we start to kill everyone who works on sunday. Police officers, nurses, taxi drivers, fire workers...etc...
That ok for the religious hardliners?
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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TheDeath
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posted September 28, 2008 09:02 PM |
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Quote:
It is asked where the sense is in getting killed when working on the wrong day a week, and then the word "sense" is questioned. Unbelievable
No why would I answer a question that makes no sense? 
And I did answer the "praying" questions regarding God not being our toy -- you do realize that if we pray and expect predictable results then it would make God our toy, or under our command right? That's one of the childish attempts at arguing against the religion because they don't even understand it properly -- trust me I've seen a lot of good debates by atheists who took the time to understand and study the religion in question, since you need to know what you're debating against.
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Doomforge
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posted September 28, 2008 09:05 PM |
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Quote:
This reply is soooo typical "TheDeath"-style.
You do not try to answer a question, no...you try to explain what is wrong in the question itself. Be it a word, a phrase or a letter.
It is asked where the sense is in getting killed when working on the wrong day a week, and then the word "sense" is questioned. Unbelievable
Ok..now we start to kill everyone who works on sunday. Police officers, nurses, taxi drivers, fire workers...etc...
That ok for the religious hardliners?
This is, whether you like it or not, old laws of Jews, written entirely by men, and God is just used to strengthen the meaning.
Does that prove anything? Well.. no? ;p
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Nebdar
Promising
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Generation N
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posted September 28, 2008 09:29 PM |
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No the questions are alright the word god is like big empty bag you can put anything you want and say about him anything you want. God is imaginery and so it make no sense, people who made him is trying to give to him so reasoning and sense but there efforts is complete nonsense
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TheDeath
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posted September 28, 2008 09:33 PM |
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Quote:
No the questions are alright the word god is like big empty bag you can put anything you want and say about him anything you want. God is imaginery and so it make no sense, people who made him is trying to give to him so reasoning and sense but there efforts is complete nonsense
Those are all claims. Hard to argue with them
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Nebdar
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Generation N
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posted September 28, 2008 09:36 PM |
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I haven't read whole 130 pages of this thread i stoped at first very long post and i don't know is that was explained but if want to talk about god we must first know who, what where is god.
So my question is what ho is GOD
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TheDeath
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posted September 28, 2008 09:47 PM |
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I didn't say anything about reading the thread 
I said that what you wrote in that post were just claims
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 28, 2008 09:51 PM |
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I dont understand relgion.
Basically Christians etc thinks that a Alien Lord of great power (God) and his people (the Angels) created many thousand worlds and sent down emesarries to them (who were in the disguise of humans) ?
Religion is old. No need to have it anymore, we have now explained everything correctly (well, almost everything).
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted September 28, 2008 09:53 PM |
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Quote:
I didn't say anything about reading the thread
I said that what you wrote in that post were just claims
My opinion yes.
Can somebody can tell me what is, or who is GOD
A Defnition or something.
If we want to talk about something we must now more about what is the main core subject. god
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Doomforge
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posted September 28, 2008 09:56 PM |
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Quote:
Religion is old. No need to have it anymore, we have now explained everything correctly (well, almost everything).
Riiight. When the greatest of minds don't deny that a God is possible.. well, they are wrong. YOU are right We have 128% proof that there is no God!
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TheDeath
Responsible
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with serious business
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posted September 28, 2008 09:59 PM |
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Quote:
Can somebody can tell me what is, or who is GOD
A Defnition or something.
That is a very deep question, and needs a very detailed answer (I think I have written in this thread but it's lost now  ). That's what happens in a very big thread
hmm you could look up some religious/theological articles or books. Notice that there's not a precise definition (that is to the extreme detail) because it is impossible to comprehend all that God is. (I don't say religious people know it!)
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 28, 2008 10:00 PM |
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If we've explained everything, I'm terribly disappointed.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2008 10:07 PM |
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The most funny thing about people who claim they "believe in science" is that they most likely don't know a damn thing about it. They just read news or watch how our brave scientists created LHC and they say "omg we're so smart who needs God".
Riiiight. (this is not directed at any of this thread's participants.)
Heck, they don't even know that the top scientists often are theists.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 28, 2008 10:12 PM |
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I doubt they are all theists.
To me, the constant need to tell religious people they are wrong is simliar to a big kid telling a little kid there isn't a Santa Claus. Why bother? Will it make them feel better by making someone feel worse?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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