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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 01, 2007 05:44 PM |
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Ashrah, for Christ's sake, Church is crap. It openly LIED TO PEOPLE (and still does) just to gain power. But, if the Church sucks, that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.
GOD DOES NOT EQUAL THE CHURCH.
I can't believe you haven't understood that yet.
I believe in God in my way, but I strongly oppose organised religion. People who try to understand God by human logic, both those who think he definitely exists and those who, through it, get a conclusion that he doesn't exist (OMG my tire got flat! There is no God!) are just dumb... If we were supposed to know how God acts and what's really there, we wouldn't be believing in 8-handed elephants for thousands of years... God would make us believe in him from the beginning itself.
Christ knew that. HE never mentioned winged people or shiny circles above people's heads or moronities like that. He just believed in SOMETHING up there, which gave birth to him (and us all). He also really wanted to make other people have better lives. Without pointless mythology or warlike intentions or anything like that. But no, they nailed him to a cross.
And later on, they just added physical things (like Heaven and Hell) to force people into serving them.
Now when you start with questions like "Why did God let that happen" you totally piss me off.
WE DON'T KNOW WHY HE (she) LET THAT HAPPEN! So that we learn, or whatever... I don't know. Again, we're not supposed to know.
It doesn't actually matter if we believe in God or not. It's not like he (again, she?) gives a crap... There might as well not be only one of them... Or there is only one, but is more shaped as another dimension than a personality...
I don't even think about it anymore. I simply love and respect Jesus and that's why I call myself a Christian. However, that's where my faith similarities with the Church stop. I'm just sorry I couldn't meet Jesus and try to see it directly like him...
As my girlfriend always says, "there was only one true Christian, and he died on the cross"...
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 01, 2007 05:51 PM |
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All humans were created equal.
God loves all.
Not all will go to heaven.
Some of the equal ones which he loves will go to hell, some of the exactly equal in every aspect humans will go to heaven, whom he still loves.
Some of those people who were created equal, decide to sin, despite all factors being equal between those who choose sin and those who don't, due to them being created equal.
Those who don't choose sin are sinners anyway because that's the rules, seeing as if one person is a sinner, and all are equal in the eyes of God, then all are equals.
Not all will go to heaven though.
Because regardless of our actions we are still equal in the eyes of god.
For this reason God thinks you are exactly equal to Osama Bin Laden.
____________
John says to live above hell.
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whinie_the_b...
Adventuring Hero
grrrrr!
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posted April 04, 2007 10:03 PM |
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quote "The idea of Heaven and Hell are fuedelistic medieval theories of contested territory between Satan and God, fighting over Earth for the souls of it's people. Do you really believe this? These are HOMM monsters, not the omnipotent rulers of the universe!"
I like how you put it, but what if the gods are indeed playing heroes using us as the troop.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 04, 2007 11:04 PM |
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Now if this isn't a cliche thought!  If God is the most powerful being why would he care to do that? For fun? For a betting passion maybe? 
I do believe that we are influenced in one way or another, maybe brought to certain dilemmas but that's a bit far-fetched and pointless.
____________
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted April 05, 2007 08:05 AM |
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Quote:
Believing in a higher being is like believing in Santa himself... or in the tooth fairy for that matter...
It's just not realistic... It's prehistoric.
Believing in a higher being IS NOT like believing in Santa himself.
it really isn't the same, in my opinion, and the same with the tooth fairy.
Oh, so because I believe in God, that must mean I pretty much believe in Santa and the tooth fairy?
Let's talk realistic here.
And if you don't like religion or do not believe in God, then so be it, but do not come in here spreading assumptions and or lies, because in this forum there are some really serious religious people.
I believe in god, but that doesn't mean I believe in the tooth fairy or Santa 
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 05, 2007 08:15 AM |
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no one said that if you believe in god you must believe in santa.
she compared the two.
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Why because it's not realistic enough for you? Realism should tell you that there is always someone higher that you.
That's irrelevant.
Realism is taking evidence from your life and applying it. You might have noticed that there's always someone higher than you, so you think that there's always someone higher than you.
What's that got to do with believing in an invisible being who watches down on us from the invisible heavens? (and is also everywhere at once)
Quote:
Now if this isn't a cliche thought! If God is the most powerful being why would he care to do that? For fun? For a betting passion maybe?
I do believe that we are influenced in one way or another, maybe brought to certain dilemmas but that's a bit far-fetched and pointless.
Far fetched and pointless...
Well put.
Oh we're not talking about the bible?
____________
John says to live above hell.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 05, 2007 06:35 PM |
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Quote:
That's irrelevant.
Realism is taking evidence from your life and applying it. You might have noticed that there's always someone higher than you, so you think that there's always someone higher than you.
What's that got to do with believing in an invisible being who watches down on us from the invisible heavens? (and is also everywhere at once)
You are right, I did not argue God's existence as shown in the Bible but I'm saying that almost always someone is higher-probably a mighty entity, no? If we can perceive his presence that is another story and by no means did I cite a proper argument for that maybe because there isn't one. The point was that out of realism you should be open the the possibility. Suppose I have not seen someone behind the corner, does that mean he does not exist? I am just not aware and Ashrah considers that illogical.
____________
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted April 05, 2007 08:55 PM |
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Let's kiss the prehistoric times goodbye and all religion with it, law, police and economy replaced it.
People actually already tried that a few years ago... It was called communism and they didn't really like it.
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your mad parents or friends
Insanity... The most relative term there ever was.
I wonder what is it that makes you less insane than our parents? Is it perhaps your wish to deprave most of mankind of the final hope that is left for them before sinking into complete decadence and chaos? Is it your utter depresiveness and hopelessness which you show mostly here since if you showed it to anyone else they'd consider you a psychiatric case?
Fanatism is of course a bad thing. But hating complete religions and all believers because of them is simply dumb. There are people who consider religion as a guide, a man's personal thing, as something he decides and believes in, as his final hope of surviving the horrors of this sh*thole of a world for at least some time, and no one can take that away from him/her. Of course, fanatic and overdogmatic beliefs are unneeded, just like organized religion itself, but to deny the existance of something you cannot possibly know is like denying the existance of life itself, since you can't really understand that either.
Even Marilyn Manson said that although organised religion is crap, he does not exclude the existance of anything he can't know for sure. And he's like the most antireligious person ever.
PS About the anti-christ thingy. Please try to find out what the idea of anti-christ is and what that term even means in the Bible, where it was created, before writing such crap. Thanks in advance.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 05, 2007 08:58 PM |
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Don't you think you have overstepped your bounds? Boy, my mad parents or friends? I have only one thing to ask, what is wrong with you-did noone teach you manners? I am arguing about something and you are attacking me.
____________
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alcibiades
Honorable
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of Gold Dragons
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posted April 05, 2007 09:04 PM |
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You know, Asrah, the day you actually came back and told me that you had had an experience that PROVED to you, that there is no God, I would give credit to what you see. I don't say that you are not in your full right to BELIEVE that there is no God, because you can believe whatever you want. But please don't go an impose your views on the rest of us, because it's really not becoming at all. And you are being very judgmental where your belief is just as good as any other, which, in the end, just makes you seem like a silly girl rather than the enlighted spirit you would like to be.
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What will happen now?
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whinie_the_b...
Adventuring Hero
grrrrr!
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posted April 06, 2007 07:15 PM |
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I agree that most religions have been often found guilty of serving their own interests. But this does not exclude the possibility of someone above us in the hierarchy that we cannot perceive today..
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 07, 2007 08:13 AM |
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god was made up to answer questions people couldn't be bothered finding out.
"Why does that happen?"
"uh.. God."
"Ah."
end of story.
Ashrah, you are talking about religion, and the church, not the idea of god itself. The idea of god wasn't made to supress people.
But on a sidenote, what does annoy me when people say that you need to prove that god DOESN'T exist. It just seems ridiculous. You don't prove that something DOESN'T exist... there is an infinite amount of things that don't exist, no? So you'd be proving your whole life. That doesn't mean any of those things exist at all, or should even be thought about.
If YOU think that they exist, then you prove that they DO, which is something that is actually possible. then people will believe you. god slipped through the system lol.
You can't prove something doesn't exist.
____________
John says to live above hell.
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Elvin
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posted April 07, 2007 11:53 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:54, 07 Apr 2007.
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You can, just as you can prove in maths that something is impossible. Not much point however and easy to misinterpret the results.
____________
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 07, 2007 01:45 PM |
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You can't use maths to prove that a physical entity doesn't exist.
Use maths to disprove the boogey man.
____________
John says to live above hell.
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Elvin
Admirable
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posted April 07, 2007 02:50 PM |
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I used that as something similar-well kinda. Maths won't disprove someone's existence but there are other facts you may use to make a claim. For instance it is easy to prove that santa does not exist due to longer lifespan than a mere human's
Seriously though I am sure that if we had all the information we wanted we could deduce if someone exists or not if only from his interaction with the environment etc. I'm not saying that God's existence COULD be proven as it is something beyond our reasoning.
____________
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baklava
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posted April 07, 2007 03:33 PM |
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Quote:
Use maths to disprove the boogey man.
Well no but I can use half-insane quazi-logic... 
We currently have two theories on living creatures: that God created them, and the biological one.
If God created Earth, one must assume that Boogeyman, as a creature of darkness and evil, is a demon, controlled by, or even an incarnation of Satan. However we clearly know out of the Church's teachings that demons cannot materialize on Earth in their shape, they can only possess humans from time to time and make heretical satanistic claims such as that Earth is round.
Taking a different approach, one might see the Boogeyman as an apparition, a spiritual entity, most commonly referred to as a ghost. However, ghosts, as we have learned from everyone having experiences with them, are either bound to one place (and can be seen from time to time), or float in the air around us, helping mediums earn cash on the people who lost someone close to them (however in that case they cannot be seen, and Boogeyman doesn't help anyone earn money).
Assuming the biological theory as the one that happened, one cannot help but wonder how can a person (since Boogeyman is a person) appear out of thin air in the bedrooms of children. Unless of course teleportation.
Now, since everything about Boogeyman implies that he teleports into children's bedrooms intentionally, and not spontaniously, we can clearly see that he is using a technological teleportational device. In that case, he is an otherworldly being, an extra terrestrial if you will. In the language of a common redneck, a goddamn alien.
Boogeyman, as most describe him, is a humanoid figure. Since there is theoretically an endless number of worlds and different habitats in the galaxy, one must wonder how many of those in fact looks just like us. The answer is - probably none. Except of course hippies but they do not like to frighten children.
So the Boogeyman can either be a humanoid alien (and chances for that are 1:a kazzilion), or doesn't exist.
As you can see, most things imply that Boogeyman doesn't exist.
That would be all for today, join us tomorrow when we will discover the secrets of God, Yoda and similar. Thank you.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 07, 2007 06:31 PM |
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I tend to think that God made the rules or something in these lines and then things took their way. Who knows...
Interesting insight on the boogeyman nature! 
____________
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GenieLord
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posted April 07, 2007 09:30 PM |
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This is what I believe in. I'm not trying to affect on anyone's personal belief.
In this case, my opinion comes from old jewish proverb:
"Every person will live with what he believes"
In my opinion religious should be something free, that helps people daily.
For examle, when something bad happens, or you feel bad, you have someone to go to, someone to pray for, someone that can make you feel that things will be better.
When someone died, there are clear rules of what to do. You don't have to do them, but it gives you a clue. Unreligious person might be in mourning for a long time, and won't be able to cope with those things.
Accoding to the Judaism, you should come to the person's grave in the funeral. Next time you come is after month passes, and then only once per a year, in the day of death. You can cry and be sad, but without exaggerating.
All that gives you a good way to cope with the mourning.
Every person and the religion that good for him, and helps him coping with things daily.
Some persons like the peaceful budaism, some would like to belief in Jesus, as the prophet of God, and some see the Muhaman as the prophet of Alla. And everything is fine.
I think that trying to convince people that god exsist, isn't a good thing. The same with convincing people that god doesn't exsist.
Let's say you succeed to convince someone that there is god. Is that worth something? All the point about faith that I comes from the inside. The person, according to the religion, should know that god exsist, and to truely love him.
And Let's say you succeed to convince religious person that there is no god. First of all, you took from person his faith, what he truely loved and respected, and made him think that everything was silly, and that he acted like a fool. You made him feel a bit bad.
And How does it help you? Mabey there's a way, but usually, it doesn't.
That what's religion gives you: frame and way to cope with things in life.
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Elvin
Admirable
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Endless Revival
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posted April 08, 2007 12:25 AM |
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You know Ashrah I am wondering why you disbelieve the existence of God. Sure, you are an atheist but there must be more than that. On a practical note yes, if you don't care to protect the tangible things that give life as the earth itself what will you care for? Still I choose to believe not for any long-term gains but because I agree with the general philosophy and as long as it represents me it can't be a wrong choice and it does not conflict with the world in which we live in. And no I don't really care about the church representatives, especially after some unpleasant things that happened in my country.
____________
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted April 08, 2007 12:46 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Use maths to disprove the boogey man.
Well no but I can use half-insane quazi-logic...
We currently have two theories on living creatures: that God created them, and the biological one.
If God created Earth, one must assume that Boogeyman, as a creature of darkness and evil, is a demon, controlled by, or even an incarnation of Satan. However we clearly know out of the Church's teachings that demons cannot materialize on Earth in their shape, they can only possess humans from time to time and make heretical satanistic claims such as that Earth is round.
Taking a different approach, one might see the Boogeyman as an apparition, a spiritual entity, most commonly referred to as a ghost. However, ghosts, as we have learned from everyone having experiences with them, are either bound to one place (and can be seen from time to time), or float in the air around us, helping mediums earn cash on the people who lost someone close to them (however in that case they cannot be seen, and Boogeyman doesn't help anyone earn money).
Assuming the biological theory as the one that happened, one cannot help but wonder how can a person (since Boogeyman is a person) appear out of thin air in the bedrooms of children. Unless of course teleportation.
Now, since everything about Boogeyman implies that he teleports into children's bedrooms intentionally, and not spontaniously, we can clearly see that he is using a technological teleportational device. In that case, he is an otherworldly being, an extra terrestrial if you will. In the language of a common redneck, a goddamn alien.
Boogeyman, as most describe him, is a humanoid figure. Since there is theoretically an endless number of worlds and different habitats in the galaxy, one must wonder how many of those in fact looks just like us. The answer is - probably none. Except of course hippies but they do not like to frighten children.
So the Boogeyman can either be a humanoid alien (and chances for that are 1:a kazzilion), or doesn't exist.
As you can see, most things imply that Boogeyman doesn't exist.
That would be all for today, join us tomorrow when we will discover the secrets of God, Yoda and similar. Thank you.
theres no evidence of the boogeyman doing any of these things!!
where is the proof!!
Quote:
I do not think there is any religion, especially catholic which we are slaves.
William you're just trying to defend religion, shunning the idea of it's association with slavery purely because you think of slavery as a negative idea, so you reject it without even thinking about it.
An orthodox Catholic MUST:
Have no sex before marriage
Use no contraception
Attend church and pray to their leader
etc.
This could be termed as slavery.
The only difference is in the severity of what they have to do, and that (some of them) can choose to stop..
____________
John says to live above hell.
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