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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 04:50 PM |
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The world would have been much better without religion...
Do me a favor and stop writing BS. Uncle Stalin already tested such world. It does not work 
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just look at the world now and look what religion has done to us.
What?
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On the other side, its very good to reduce the earths populaton
I'm sick tired of poeple who keep blaming the religion for all the evil that happened in the world. Go with your BS elsewhere please If I want to kill you, I do not need to do it because of religion. I may do it because you haven't tied your shoelaces. Go blame the shoelaces!
Sorry for maybe a bit too aggressive tone, but it's really annoying to see people blaming the knife when a cutthroat kills somebody with it. It's his fault, not the tool he used.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 07, 2008 05:14 PM |
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Quote:
Sorry for maybe a bit too aggressive tone, but it's really annoying to see people blaming the knife when a cutthroat kills somebody with it. It's his fault, not the tool he used.
No need to say sorry I feel exactly the same . But people will never learn they always have to blame somebody and religion goes pretty well for most people...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted April 07, 2008 05:55 PM |
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There is no need for organized religion. If you believe in what man has wrote to all be true and you decide to follow it then follow it. However congregating among others that believe in the same thing then taking the words in the Bible and giving them different meaning or reading into the words (such as Jehovah witnesses do all the time) is wrong and can be harmful.
What about those that gather and believe that aliens are coming so they all off themselves together believing that the mother ship will come for them. Same concepts in believing in something that we can not see, hear, touch, or have a conversation with. The difference is that we look at that alien believer as though there is something wrong with them. Just as some on here look at those that believe in something that no one can see. It is all a bit esoteric.
But to organize people under one roof and then pull the Bible apart to suit what ever cult they will form is just messed up. More power to you if you do it and it is what works for you. I think besides pot lucks, conversation, and free daycare there is no point.
FYI, religion has been the focus of many wars and so has politics for that matter. Yes we choose to pick the weapon up but the core reasons for wars are religious and political
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 06:22 PM |
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However congregating among others that believe in the same thing then taking the words in the Bible and giving them different meaning or reading into the words (such as Jehovah witnesses do all the time) is wrong and can be harmful.
There are like kazillion things that people can convince themselves of which can be harmful but apparently nobody gives a sh*t about it.
Except religion of course, which is the prime evil of the universe, yeyeye. Come on, what's wrong or not is none of my concern.. why the hell should I tell people not to do such things? As long as they not harm anybody, why should I even care.
Believing in aliens is a different matter than religion, VF. If we weren't so helpless about the distance, we could just go and check every inch of the universe and find them. They are - if they exist - a part of this universe.
But everything that is related to afterlife and death is not. We will most likely never know until we die. There are like milions of people who experienced the unexplainable. We can be extreme sceptists and say it's all BS, but isn't it kinda like the middle-ages people, saying that flight is not possible and the earth is flat? We don't know. And we won't prove anything by claiming it's not true.
Science is clueless at times. That's why phenomenology exists 
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FYI, religion has been the focus of many wars and so has politics for that matter. Yes we choose to pick the weapon up but the core reasons for wars are religious and political
The core reasons are the human nature, greed, lust for power. Religion? just another excuse. If it weren't religion, it would be breathing space or color of the skin. I don't understand why people can't see such a simple fact.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 07, 2008 06:57 PM |
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If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.
If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?
If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?
by Epicurus
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 09:37 PM |
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Uncle Stalin already tested such world. It does not work
Stalin was a mass murderer and insane. No religion =/= mass murder and insanity.
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If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.
BUT HE GAVE US FREE WILL!!!!shift+1!
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Eccentric Opinion
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 10:00 PM |
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Of course it does not, but what I wanted to prove was that "the world without religion would be better" is BS. At least when it comes to wars and genocides.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 07, 2008 10:08 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 22:19, 07 Apr 2008.
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@ Doomforge
Please stop your aggressive way. If anyone states his opinion, it can't be "BS". It is his opinion. Yours could be "BS" in his eyes too. Don't claim YOUR opinion to be the only truth!
And your example with the knife is a bit weak. It's the same way the producers of guns argue...."I've only produced it...I didn't hit the trigger!".
Do you blame scientist who founded the atomic bomb? Or only the ones who drop them on cities?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 10:16 PM |
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If I say now that the world will be a better place without Britney Spears, how badly will I get flamed? 
To clarify : opinions are opinions. People have and will have them, don't get overly exited about them.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 10:19 PM |
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Sorry, angelito. I'll try to be less aggressive next time.
There is a point where you just get a bit angry and you can do nothing about it. Especially when people start with something that is REALLY wrong. You can't put everything into "opinions". If someone kept saying the geocentrism is true because he sees sun going around the sky, you'd eventually lose your nerve too.
And misunderstood things aren't opinions. I NEVER criticize opinions different then mine. I respect atheists in every way.
I do not respect childish arguments or repeating urban legends over and over, and so on.
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And your example with the knife is a bit weak. It's the same way the producers of guns argue...."I've only produced it...I didn't hit the trigger!".
Nono, guns are things created solely for one purpose: killing. And knives.. I thought about ordinary kitchen knives, which are meant for something else. Same for religion! It's not meant to be a reason for wars.. it's meant to give people a bit of inner peace, to make the lives of those handicapped or mortally ill less hollow, to make old people accept death. And we can't really put the blame on it BECAUSE someone twisted its meaning. Don't you agree with me?
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Do you blame scientist who founded the atomic bomb? Or only the ones who drop them on cities?
Nuclear power has a lot of uses. Those who use it to annihilate entire cities are obviously the ones responsible for it. it's neither the fault of those who discovered it, nor the bomb itself, which is just a tool in wrong hands.
And btw, I'm not defending religion here. I'm trying to prevent people from repeating those things over and over. If it would be "money is the reason for crimes", I'd react the same way. No, it's not money. It's humanity and its lust.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 10:31 PM |
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If someone kept saying the geocentrism is true because he sees sun going around the sky, you'd eventually lose your nerve too.
Now you know how I feel about religion.
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Eccentric Opinion
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 07, 2008 10:32 PM |
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I completely agree with you. But the problem is...we have to face reality! We are NOT a world of angels ( )...there will always be people with "bad habbits". And we know that. It is nothing new...not a surprise.
If I will create a bomb, there will be someone using it for killing. If I create a gun, there will be someone who will use it to kill someone (and not only a deer to have some meat...).
So in my eyes, it is a bit naive to think religion is only a good thing. The main (and starting) reason may have been like that. But the world changed....and will change every "decade". As long as we have "free will", we will use those things for egoistic reasons.
As long as we will have alcohol, there will be drunk people or even alcoholics. You can forbid alcohol for teenagers, but u will still find drunken kids every now and then.
Do u blame the alcohol, or the kids?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2008 10:32 PM |
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mvassilev: Of course I do and I do not blame you for that. Besides, I never saw you losing your nerve, something that happens to me way too often
Well, there is a difference, though. Believing in God is an opinion.. and claiming 2+2=5 is not an opinion. It's the lack of understanding
angelito: I'm glad we agree on that matter. Of course we're not living in a utopia 
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Do u blame the alcohol, or the kids?
obviously not the alcohol. If people started drinking gasoline, I wouldn't blame gasoline for it. Would you? 
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gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted April 07, 2008 11:35 PM |
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Seems like your fairytale god hates many people
The world would have been much better without religion... just look at the world now and look what religion has done to us.
On the other side, its very good to reduce the earths populaton
agree with doomforge,but of course you have 12 years old what could you know about life experience and history? nothing your safe behind your pc and you can say what you want,ok then go and say that to ppl from other countrys that suffered from terrible wars,you sure are refering to poor countrys,maybe your not different from stalin or hitler,besides you live in sweden did you know that your country helped the nazis and was neutral in ww2?! such a brainless kid nothing else..
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted April 08, 2008 12:32 AM |
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Edited by executor at 00:33, 08 Apr 2008.
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There is no need for organized religion.
As there is no need for organized ideology(political parties), philosophy, and so on...
But two guys meet, and say "hey, we feel almost the same about God(s) & co! It's a really good idea. Let's tell others!". And there comes third believer, sixteenth, 2156th, 732815878th and there's a big, fat religion. Organized religion. It will arise, and whether it's authorities will deal with politics, wars and other stuff they shouldn't is not the fault of the idea in general, but the fault of individual men that are corrupt and will use it for their interest.
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2008 01:51 AM |
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did you know that your country helped the nazis and was neutral in ww2?!
Helped the Nazis? They hid Jews! And being neutral in a war that killed millions is a stupid decision now?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted April 08, 2008 02:08 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
did you know that your country helped the nazis and was neutral in ww2?!
Helped the Nazis? They hid Jews! And being neutral in a war that killed millions is a stupid decision now?
why always someone comes in the aid of other who made tremendous ball of crap like xerox did,also i didnt said anything about being neutral is stupid so think twice before type and making me look bad;read more history or info,maybe they hid jews but not only that,many uses mask and behind that is the menace
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/105037.stm
http://www.dhh-3.de/biblio/news/1997/0607/
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2008 03:03 AM |
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So they sold stuff (not arms) to the Germans. Not the Nazis, the Germans. They sold food so the German soldiers could eat. The horror.
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did you know that your country helped the nazis and was neutral in ww2?!
You definitely imply that being neutral was a bad thing.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted April 08, 2008 10:20 AM |
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bible quotes taken from
@doomforge:Quote:
But we should not forget that Leviticus and the other first books of Moses contain a lot of old customs and laws which are quite funny in our timeline. It's whatever Aaronic priests wanted it to be. Should we blame God for it? Nah. Don't think so.
That may be so, then shall I quote from other passages?
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.
1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.
2 Peter 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul.
It seems to me the entire bible is defunct then, not just Leviticus..
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Besides, Leviticus isn't all dumb. Why not take all of those things into consideration, like:
14:29 - do not attempt to prostitute your daughter
14:31 - do not listen to jugglers because they are scammers
14:32 - You should respect older people
14:33 - Racism is really bad
14:34 - People are equal despite their birth place
There is a lot more good things in Leviticus than bad.
Hmm...
You can't really pick and choose which passages you like best.
We can follow Leviticus... respect old people, not be racist
but allow slavery
Leviticus 22:10
No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food.
and become proponents that children of slaves are slaves themselves
Leviticus 25:44
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
And burn flesh, because that aroma is pleasing to the lord (?? )
Leviticus Chapter 1
The Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any of you brings an offering to the Lord , bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.
"If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting so that it will be acceptable to the Lord . He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. He is to slaughter the young bull before the Lord , and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. Then Aaron's sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord .
"If the offering is a burnt offering from the flock, from either the sheep or the goats, he is to offer a male without defect. He is to slaughter it at the north side of the altar before the Lord , and Aaron's sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. He is to cut it into pieces, and the priest shall arrange them, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to bring all of it and burn it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord .
"If the offering to the Lord is a burnt offering of birds, he is to offer a dove or a young pigeon. The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. He is to remove the crop with its contents and throw it to the east side of the altar, where the ashes are. He shall tear it open by the wings, not severing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is on the fire on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord .
And follow these ridiculous laws of sin and redemption
Leviticus Chapter 5
'If a person sins because he does not speak up when he hears a public charge to testify regarding something he has seen or learned about, he will be held responsible.
'Or if a person touches anything ceremonially unclean-whether the carcasses of unclean wild animals or of unclean livestock or of unclean creatures that move along the ground-even though he is unaware of it, he has become unclean and is guilty.
'Or if he touches human uncleanness-anything that would make him unclean-even though he is unaware of it, when he learns of it he will be guilty.
'Or if a person thoughtlessly takes an oath to do anything, whether good or evil-in any matter one might carelessly swear about-even though he is unaware of it, in any case when he learns of it he will be guilty.
'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
'If he cannot afford a lamb, he is to bring two doves or two young pigeons to the Lord as a penalty for his sin-one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. He is to bring them to the priest, who shall first offer the one for the sin offering. He is to wring its head from its neck, not severing it completely, and is to sprinkle some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for him for the sin he has committed, and he will be forgiven.
descriminate against people with genetic problems and handicaps,
Leviticus 21:17
Say to Aaron, None of your descendants throughout their generations who has a blemish may approach to offer the bread of his God. For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, or a hunchback, or a dwarf, or a man with a defect in his sight or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles; no man of the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to offer the LORD's offerings by fire; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. He may eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy and of the holy things, but he shall not come near the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries; for I am the LORD who sanctify them.
Stoning people who blaspheme or curse their parents?
Half the world would be dead if what the bible says is true.
But ok, fair enough, you don't like Leviticus.
Maybe that one (just that one as an exception to the rule) is not written by god..
What about.
Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
It's ok to beat slaves
Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:
If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.(LOLOLOLOL)
this also puts a value on human life. 30 shekels
1 Corinthians chapter 14
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Not sexist at all...
Matthew 25:1
"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom." - Jesus
Jesus himself! Direct quote!
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
"If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives."
Ladies? be careful..
Isaiah chapter 13
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.
Man god would have LOVED the My Lai massacre.
Deuteronomy Chapter 25
If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
lalalala..
I think it is more likely that the entire bible is not the word of god, but the (admittedly... imaginative) word of men.
Even as men writing it they must have been laughing... I can't imagine someone writing that bull comment with a straight face
Why would god say:
The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Say to the people of Israel, When any man has a discharge from his body, his discharge is unclean. And this is the law of his uncleanness for a discharge: whether his body runs with his discharge, or his body is stopped from discharge, it is uncleanness in him. Every bed on which he who has the discharge lies shall be unclean; and everything on which he sits shall be unclean. And any one who touches his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. And whoever sits on anything on which he who has the discharge has sat shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. And whoever touches the body of him who has the discharge shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. And if he who has the discharge spits on one who is clean, then he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. And any saddle on which he who has the discharge rides shall be unclean. And whoever touches anything that was under him shall be unclean until the evening; and he who carries such a thing shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening.
When he could say something helpful, or... sane... like:
"There are 47 different types of abnormal discharges that I have inflicted on the human body when I created it. They are, in order of frequency of occurrence: 1) Discharge from an infected skin lesion, normally caused by some sort of cut or puncture wound. What is happening here is a bacterial infection. First off, whenever you get a cut or puncture wound, you should wash it carefully with an antiseptic solution to kill the bacteria, and then cover the wound with a sterile dressing to keep bacteria out. Also, make sure that your tetanus vaccination is up to date. These steps will prevent 98.7% of all infections. But if the wound does become infected, what you should do is incise and drain the wound. This will be painful, but it is important because if you allow the pus to build up..."
Why is the bible so useless?
Because it was written, cover to cover, by primitive, power hungry, sexist men.
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The world would have been much better without religion...
Do me a favor and stop writing BS. Uncle Stalin already tested such world. It does not work
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just look at the world now and look what religion has done to us.
What?
Crusades? Inquisition? 9/11? Conflicts in the middle east? Dark ages? Women their own children to save them from hell? Gay bashing?
 Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
@gallow:
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such a brainless kid nothing else..
whoa... calm down
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John says to live above hell.
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angelito
Honorable
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proud father of a princess
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posted April 08, 2008 10:27 AM |
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@ Gallow
How many warnings do you need before u finally try to post without that high temperature? If u can't argue without personal attacks, you will be eliminated from this discussion pretty soon.
Your choice!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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