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| Thread: Provoking a pedophile!! Not a good idea |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted July 21, 2006 05:03 AM |
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Edited by Valeriy at 05:04, 21 Jul 2006.
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edit: just a note, I wrote this before seeing the previous 4 posts, which happened rather quickly 
I think there are many layers to the problem.
First of all, young teenage girls often wear what is cool to wear, by the opinion of other teenage girls they are friends with. This opinion is set my the media and pop stars, who like to wear less these days and to shake their bits ("their hips don't lie"). There are models and magazines also. With boys packs, it's power (well in boyish understanding of what power is). With girls, it's the looks. So most girls strive to be the hottest looking, to gain respect among other girls and to feel like the girl in the magazine or music video - popular, wanted and special.
As a side effect of following these group and media trends, the girl's appearance is a verly loud sexual invitation, which the girl may not realise or want to express at all. But that is indeed how she comes across to teenagers and DOMs (Dirty Old Men). The idea of sex may indeed make her say "eeeeew! gross!" and she dosn't really get the full implications of what is communicated by what she is wearing. It's like wearing a white T-shirt with a big red target picture and words "shoot here" underneath in the firing range, and then wondering why people take aim at you. I think in many cases this message being communicated by their clothes is not something that they want to communicate, or are even fully aware of, they are just doing what's cool to gain status and attention among their peers (as if girls don't want those things  ).
Strong desire to gain attention and recognition of peers comes from lack of those things from the family I believe. Often child is seen as inferior object by parents, an item that is to be moulded and controlled to math their preferences, for its own good. Not as a human being who has rational valid thoughts, wishes and aspirations that deserve expression, acknowledgement and appropriate fulfillment.
Since parenting and setting boundaries has been brought up, I'll reply on that too, not necessarily for the original topic, but as an additional discussion which is interesting.
I think that monitoring the activity of our children, rather than trusting them to be honest with us is a negative thing. It's a statement of mistrust: "even though I explained to you what is dangerous to do, I do not trust you to be capable of making your own decisions and controlling your own actions, therefore I will make your decisions for you and I will monitor your actions to make sure my decisions are carried out whether you like it or not" - this is the internal message of what such monitoring says to a child, regardless of what icing it is presented with.
Of course black or white is not the answer. Children need attention and guidance. Children need trust too. Trust is an essential part of developing fulfilling relationships later on in life, rather than mistrusting and monitoring the spouse.
Needless to say I've also spent many years dealing the the not so good side-effects of what I consider to be negative aspects of my upbringing, and I'm probably far from done. Of course there are many good things too, some even resulted from the bad things. But one thing I can say for certain is that there is no such thing as treating your child with less trust and validation while they are small, and not having it affect the rest of their life.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted July 21, 2006 05:25 AM |
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Posting as a moderator
Please respect each other in this forum, this is a warning to LadyMeryl and violent_flower. The rules of the forum are outlined here, but their foundation is stated very simply:
The Foundation: Respect.
* An attitude of consideration and appreciation.
* Courteous regard for people's feelings, opinions and actions.
All we see here are words on screen from people who don't know anything about us aside from reading words on screen, so judgements can't possibly be more than speculations based on those words. It is very easy to react if something about those words reminds us of the past, for example of an opressive parent, or of not being undestood or appreciated by someone dear. But those are just words on screen that remind us of something. Let's not leash out as if we're talking to our opressive mothers/fathers or ungrateful spouses/children here. Please discuss actions without calling people names or referring to their intelligence or to their children's possible wishes with regards to their longevity.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2006 02:33 PM |
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Well I think it depends on the nieghborhood & city you live in Gootch.
Also may depend on the experience of nieghborhoods the parent lived in.
Side note to you Violent FLower.
You mentioned having a good welcome here.
You wrote a debating thread basicallyh where we disagree & debate.
Sometimes we sound harsh but we dont agree with all of what you say.
Expect this when you write a threadlike this.
Sometimes the debates get worst depending on the issue.
Try making a political debate thread lol.
I garuntee some will have your head on here  .
I also dont agree with meryl reply on here.
Very imature & one minded.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 21, 2006 04:48 PM |
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this is so ironic,that you grown ups think you know so much about what adults should give to children(freedome and the excat amount of it) that you dont mind the only "childs" responds on this disscussion,its like your saying:"You must give you son more freedom" and the same time"Shut up,what can you understand your just a kid" and "Dont intruppted when grown ups talk".
Whos immture here?
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2006 05:23 PM |
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Edited by Aculias at 17:33, 21 Jul 2006.
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What are you some perfect parent that this topic is not up to debate.
You stoop on the level which also makes you imature.
Why dont you think about what you write before you hit submit.
What are we supposed to think just like you.
WHo made you Mr. Perfect lol.
As far as I am concerned, this is one of the most imature reply I read on here.
Yea why dont YOU write about what is so imature about us saying in our OWN humble opinion.
Better yet why dont you write about children having more freedom & what makes us imature for making that kind of debate.
COme on now I want to hear the upbringings of a child if they had more freedom or if they have no privacy.
I bet you cant because theres too many delicate circumstances between the lines.
Meaning a kid can turn out differently because of little issues like abuse etc.
If you cant respond to this, then you should rethink before you make a harsh comment to others.
This matter is way too delicate to make such a reply.
Edit: I just looked at your age.
With a comment like that how would you even know how it is to parent.
Even if you do have a kid.
Your still a kid yourself.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 21, 2006 05:42 PM |
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What are you some perfect parent that this topic is not up to debate.
Thats not what i questined either.
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You stoop on the level which also makes you imature.
and i never said i wasent.
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Why dont you think about what you write before you hit submit.
a hit below the belt? call it a ignorence,but the doctors call it some mental disorder,thats the reason i dont type well,becouse i think to fest,and ocasinolly i find it difficult to transform thoughts into words.
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What are we supposed to think just like you.
WHo made you Mr. Perfect lol.
i didnt said that you ware all wrong,all i did was saying that wasent fair.
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As far as I am concerned, this is one of the most imature reply I read on here.
Yea why dont YOU write about what is so imature about us saying in our OWN humble opinion.
the reason i called you guys immture is becouse you ignored my post,and I took it as some sort of a shout "Dont interrupt when grown ups talk".
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Better yet why dont you write about children having more freedom & what makes us imature for making that kind of debate.
As far as i'll say to my mother about not giving me enought freedom,i support her,and i support flower.
Becouse todays youth,and esspecily me needed of bunderys.
my mother told me not to do things,but only that way i did them,and understood they ware wrong.
Its a way of learning too.
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bet you cant because theres too many delicate circumstances between the lines.
And i want you to tell me atleast one subject that you cant say that there are to meny delicate cirucmstances between the lines.
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Meaning a kid can turn out differently because of little issues like abuse etc.
so basicly your saying all this threat is useless?
EDIT: all my life i was treated as "stupid" becouse i was young,i had to prove over and over to my perents that i can be right,sometimes,too.
In my femily up until a year ago,none of my words ware heared let alone respected,becouse i was young , becouse i was inexpearnced.
That is why i found that offending.
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted July 21, 2006 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
Thanks for your input Im sure that when you write a book on parenting I will be rushing to the store to pick up my own-signed copy.
As I've said - don't bother reading the rest of my post. I was proven a number of times that arguing with brick walls is not a very good idea. I've wasted plenty of time doing this in the past and I am not going to repeat my mistakes again. If you feel the need to put any more irony towards me in your posts where you brag about your great parenting skills - feel free to do so, but I won't bother replying again. Thank you for your attention.
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Antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 21, 2006 06:04 PM |
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I think this went alittle bit out of hand..This was suppost to be a talk about how one thing is bad and how to avoide it,not a flame between old and young,or a bashing about ones perenting skils 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 21, 2006 06:17 PM |
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I would love to see a reply to the same topic from all these guys/girls who DONīT have children in about 10 years (for the case they WILL have children till then.
There is a big difference between overprotecting a child and just take care.
The problem with the internet is, u rarely have an "age control". Try to get into a sex shop in your city with the age of 12. And now try to find pedophile pictures in the internet. What is easier to do?
Sure your children can do "wrong things" when it goes out playing with friends, but there are some "restrictions" which prevent them from doing some real bad stuff.
I wanna see all the cool guys here when they have a daughter in the age of 14-17, perfect body, face like an angel and they show u on friday evening what they want to wear for the big party in the disco.
1. A miniskirt with about the same size as the belt.
2. A blouse which covers the belly button, but nothing else.
3. A face painting like a picture of Claude Monet
4. High Heels like a "alley cat"
5. And a smile in the face which says: "Donīt wait for me tonight daddy, could be late. And this 28 year old motorcycle guy will drive me home for sure (when we woke up)".
You really get a strange feeling in your stomach at that point. Believe me...happened to me short time ago....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted July 21, 2006 07:18 PM |
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Edited by russ at 19:25, 21 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
You really get a strange feeling in your stomach at that point. Believe me...happened to me short time ago....
I thought your kids were younger?
I don't mean to disrespect any parents here, but if you think that having kids automatically makes you a great parent, you are well... to say the least - REALLY REALLY far off. If that was the case, we would be living in a perfect world for a looong time by now. Of course, I am not a parent myself, but I've seen many kids, I've seen many parents and I've seen many different approaches to raising kids. I've read a few books on phychology and I've taken it in university (as an elective - not as my major). As I've said - I have the first hand experience with the overprotective and controlling family. I think that if they allowed me more freedom, I would have been much better off right now. And that freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes on my own! Making mistakes is very important when you are a kid, because being told "do not touch a frosen flagpole with your tongue" does not have quite the same educating effect as ripping your tongue while doing it.
And yes, I can imagine how you'd feel in this situation, Angelito. I don't mean to put any parents down, but IMHO a situation like that does not come out of nowhere, unless you have a severe communication problems with your daughter. If your daughter chooses to take a path like this, I think you should be able to see the first warning signs and try to steer your daughter out of it without being really annoying or overprotective. Parents have A LOT of control over their kids' mind, and parents don't need to watch over their kids 24/7 or control their every move to do that. Kids instinctively trust their parents 100% until about the age of 5! That means that EVERY word you say to them is accepted as an axiom just because you happen to be their parent! And that trust does NOT go away completely when they turn 5, unless, of course, you do your best efforts to destroy it. If you manage to maintain their trust as their ADVISOR (NOT their warden), you can have their trust as late as their teens! Kids are not evil and they are not stupid. Their actions are NOT random. Just about everything they do is based on what they learn and you are THE BIGGEST part of that. If you tell your kids something (that makes sense and is consistent with everything else you say or do), they'll remember that and it WILL affect their behavior in the future. If you take it easy somewhere along the way and stop paying enough attention to your kids, to their interests and to what they do (through COMMUNICATION, not through spying!), don't be surprised to one day get in the situation Angelito described above.
So far the best example of a parent I've ever seen would be my great-grandmother (GGM). I've mostly learned about her from my other family, but she lived a long life, so I did get to see much of her myself. She was always respected by everyone in my family and pretty much everyone she knew. She never FORCED anyone to do anything and she never spied on anyone. All she did was talk to people. Whenever my mother had a problem, she always knew that she could talk to GGM and that the GGM would always do what is necessary. Either just listen, or give an advice (when she felt that it is necessary). Many of my mother's friends came over just to talk to GGM with their problems. For example, my when grandmother (GM) got married, she asked my grandfather (GF) to clean the windows. He cleaned THE WINDOWS, but the window frames were as dirty as they were before. When my GM got back (my GF wasn't around yet), she got pissed and was preparing to yell at my GF, but GGM said: "did you ask him to clean the frames?" "no..." "well, then maybe instead of yelling you should thank him and mention that next time he does it he may want to clean the frames as well". So, my GM and GF lived together for more than 50 years and they say that GGM have done a great job at keeping the family together as well as helping them get where they got (my grandfather ended up being a Vice President in the biggest steel factory in the world at the time, my grandmother had a similar position in her industry and later on they ended up opening their own successful business).
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted July 21, 2006 07:25 PM |
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Quote:
I wanna see all the cool guys here when they have a daughter in the age of 14-17, perfect body, face like an angel and they show u on friday evening what they want to wear for the big party in the disco.
Does that mean that a parent can't have any kind of control over their minor child?
I really don't think so. It's all a matter of how you raise your children. Also it's a matter of how the society reacts to certain things people do.
If your 14-17 year daughter wants to go to the disco with a skirt the size of a handkerchief and you say "Oh well, what can I do about it?". it's not her problem, it's your problem as a parent. It's like a stament that says you really did something wrong the last 14 years of her life.
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Antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 21, 2006 07:34 PM |
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well you got to teach her somthing,the first thing my mother thought me was,everything i do comes with a reaction,meaning if i do good,then good will be done afterwrods,but if i do bad,then there is no way that good will happen.althought in real life,its not realy correct,as it was untill i was like 10.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 21, 2006 08:11 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:22, 21 Jul 2006.
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Just lol.
Seems u all got it wrong...but nevermind.
Still i would love to see where i said this:
Quote:
..and you say "Oh well, what can I do about it?".
Would be nice if u donīt put words in my mouth and turn the whole issue upside down.
First of all, i never said i let my daughter running around like that. I only said she wanted to put on these clothes for the disco (fashion..."all others go out like that too"...blabla..).
Second, this was an example for the statement: "Let them kids make their own faults / experience. To a certain degree yes, but there will be a point where i will say NO. Do you let your small baby put her/his little hand on an active hotplate, so it can make its OWN experience? Guess not. So itīs very naive to make such a statement for every case.
@Russ
My daughter is 16. And u told me u have been to Cuba some times. So i guess u know how the girls in that age look like and how they "move their body". You canīt compare that to "normal" middle european or western countries. They are different, and they have that in their blood. And the most important thing is: they KNOW about their appeal very well..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2006 08:20 PM |
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Mental disorder.
Sorry to hear that but that comment was not directed at the way you type.
It was directed on how you commented about the issue.
Remember this is the net.
We dont know who the other person is until you tell us.
Gom Jabber there alot of reasons kids do what they do & it's all in curiosity & pure pressure.
I wrote about it earliar but it dont make a parent or parents failiure.
You cant watch your kid 24/7 thats upsurd.(spelled it wrong so what)
How are kids going to grow up & know whats going on?
Home school maybe.
Then whats going to happen when they get older & the parents pass on?
Just way too many delicate issues to even cope with whats right & whats not.
There is no right & wrong way of parenting.
You just do the best you can.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted July 21, 2006 09:32 PM |
bonus applied. |
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Geez, hot topic, huh?
Well, I'm a little late to follow up with everything, but I want to say something to this:
Quote:
Regarding Russ and Iris and their upbringing....
I would venture to start out saying that the grass is greener on the other side. There are those who have had no structure in their lives and would die to have a parental figure show them love in the form of rules and restrictions. There are those who think they would appreciate their mother grabbing their hand while crossing into traffic and wanting to protect them even into their 20s, 30s, and 40s.
You're right. A lot of times it's all in our heads and we just want what we don't have. However, my point was that any extreme is not good. You give a kid anything he wants, he'll grow up spoiled. You give him nothing, he'll grow up bitter and petty. Similarly, I think if you tell a kid what to do, he'll grow up with no mind of his own. You give him too much freedom, then he gets corrupted by society.
It seems that for Russ and I, our parents were both extremely overprotective. All I'm saying is that kids who grow up like that are (as I mentioned earlier) often indecisive, meek, and and have no initiative. This is an observation and a personal experience. Over the years, I think we've both managed to overcome that, but part of it still lingers. Like I said, I know they (the parents) mean well, but there is a line, and if you cross it, it becomes damaging to a child's growth.
Val said:
Quote:
I think that monitoring the activity of our children, rather than trusting them to be honest with us is a negative thing. It's a statement of mistrust: "even though I explained to you what is dangerous to do, I do not trust you to be capable of making your own decisions and controlling your own actions, therefore I will make your decisions for you and I will monitor your actions to make sure my decisions are carried out whether you like it or not"
I cannot agree with that more. Believe it or not, kids don't like to be treated like kids.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2006 09:36 PM |
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Edited by Aculias at 21:39, 21 Jul 2006.
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Thats BS Iris.
Gootch is talking about his own nieghborhood & it's not all in our head.
It's a fact.
You can live in a ghetto area or a gang related area.
Racist & prejudice all around us.
These days I can see why to an extent why kids are more extra careful.
It's not in our heads, it's a real fact.
It's alot worst then it was when Gootch & i were kids.
alot of pressures & rap & gang relations making thier music known.
Weapons, it's there.
Edit ont take this in a negative effect.
I am open minded & I just speak my mind.
I would of typed it no matter who wrote it.
Just a debatable disagreement.
Dont take it bad yea.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted July 21, 2006 09:39 PM |
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It's all in our heads is refering to this statement:
"I would venture to start out saying that the grass is greener on the other side."
And what I meant was that I think controlling parents are too overbearing because mine were like that.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 21, 2006 09:41 PM |
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Well some parts are & some parts are worst.
Just have to be happy of what we got.
Some kids never see thier parents & dont have any at all.
Sometimes we need to just think about how good we really have it.
Some dont even get to be on the net.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Gom_Jabbar
Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
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posted July 21, 2006 09:51 PM |
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Quote:
All we see here are words on screen from people who don't know anything about us aside from reading words on screen, so judgements can't possibly be more than speculations based on those words. It is very easy to react if something about those words reminds us of the past, for example of an opressive parent, or of not being undestood or appreciated by someone dear. But those are just words on screen that remind us of something
Absolutely right.
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Would be nice if u donīt put words in my mouth and turn the whole issue upside down.
Actually, I wasn't talking about you Angelito. Please excuse me if I offended you, for I assure you it wasn't my intention. It's just that your example was similar to many situation I see around in my neighbourhood.
Offtopic
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Gom Jabber
In fact is Gom Jabbar. I wonder why people always spell my nickname wrong Hmmm....
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted July 22, 2006 04:06 AM |
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Quote:
It seems that for Russ and I, our parents were both extremely overprotective. All I'm saying is that kids who grow up like that are (as I mentioned earlier) often indecisive, meek, and and have no initiative. This is an observation and a personal experience. Over the years, I think we've both managed to overcome that, but part of it still lingers. Like I said, I know they (the parents) mean well, but there is a line, and if you cross it, it becomes damaging to a child's growth.
Thinking about this further, I remembered that at the age of around 18-19 I've had a realisation moment that I have absolutely no idea what I want or what I feel like accomplishing. I certainly knew very well what I should be aiming for in life, but all of that was just stuff from my mother and from society. All these years of parenting where decisions were being made for me, and my own initiatives beaten out of me if undesirable to my mother, have almost destroyed any notion of my own dreams of aspirations. All I knew was what I should or am supposed to be doing with my life (mental concepts which didn't originate from my own thoughts) and what I didn't feel like doing. I had no idea what actually I felt like doing. This sounds weird, but I actually had no clue when I thought about it, it was like an alien concept. Life prior to that was largely conducted according to the "should"s.
What saved me was the last major parental attempt to overpower my choice of direction in life, at which point I was offered to discontinue what I was pursuing (ontology courses) or leave home. I was stubborn enough to leave, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I went through a lot of crap, but it was the kind of crap that made me strong and independant. Having no money and living with a crap flatmate used to be my best friend were really valuable, because I no longer fear having no money, or not having support or friends. Basically, I know how to start from 0.
Similarly I was being discouraged by my mother from the two professions that now earn me a living and make me happy. This is just part of the story of course, there were good restrictions too and many valuable traits I've inherited from my mother. Thing is, if I've had this parenting for a few more years, and I would have if I didn't break out, I'd be a very unhappy and uncapable man.
Needless to say being overpowered has also resulted in me going through a lot of bullying at school. And around attractive women in an uncontrollable feeling that my opinions are not interesting, what I'm capable of is inferior, and in terms of conversation I'm a waste of time - which is motherly treatment of a child, who in all truth is not interesting or impressive to an adult. I'm not resentful about it, it's just so, and I'm responsbile for the way I feel and act around attractive women, not my mother  I'm just saying that treatment at early age has profound effect on later life, in terms of what self-esteem, initiative and confidence the yong adult will have by default.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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