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edn
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 10, 2019 11:54 PM |
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Without having taken part in this discussion until this point (due to a slight break from any kind of social forums online), a quick read through of a couple of pages shows a few members pulling the race card too often.
Race matters less than culture, and cultures does not assimillate well. Especially cultures who are offended by the notion that they should change their ways (african and middle eastern tribal culture).
It is not strange western citizens are offended by immigrants who choose to live on wellfare, commit crime at a far higher rate (this cannot be excused by social problems, it is a matter of culture and lack of proper upbringing), etc...
A study done among the female immigrants from Somalia in Norway is a good example of this; after starting immigrating to Norway in 1998 and reaching a peak in 2002, only 20% of women from this country are occupied with work or government planned activities more than 1 hours every week.
The same goes for most countries from both middle east and africa. On top of this, immigrants get paid education and very good wellfare (some places they even get paid drivers lisence, which cost about 3000-4000$ in Norway), their teenagers operate in gangs robbing and beating up and robbing Norwegian people (in many cases kids).
Anyone who comments on these problems are labeled nazi, racist, right extremist, etc... And this is not to mention our dear neighbour Sweden, where rape has increased 1666% the last 30 years...
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted February 11, 2019 12:06 AM |
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@Gal: I don’t watch the news, I drew my own conclusions. I’ll tell you more about it tomorrow because I’m dead.
As for the post before me, I would like you to check the rape toll in the world, you will see that your country is just as high as Sweden. I shall elaborate on that as well. Just know that Africans or Arabs don’t have the exclusivity of rape. That is racist. Because I could go and say that Scandinavians are rapists, given Finland and Iceland have a very high rate as well, without significant immigration.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 11, 2019 12:25 AM |
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I would find it wise to get information first, before drawing to personal conclusions.
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edn
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 11, 2019 12:27 AM |
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Edited by edn at 00:29, 11 Feb 2019.
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AlHazin said:
@Gal: I don’t watch the news, I drew my own conclusions. I’ll tell you more about it tomorrow because I’m dead.
As for the post before me, I would like you to check the rape toll in the world, you will see that your country is just as high as Sweden. I shall elaborate on that as well. Just know that Africans or Arabs don’t have the exclusivity of rape. That is racist. Because I could go and say that Scandinavians are rapists, given Finland and Iceland have a very high rate as well, without significant immigration.
Of course you would say racist seeing as you excuse certain behaviour, I am not saying black or middle eastern people are rapists, I am saying certain cultures does not value women, and especially not women who are more liberal than "their own".
The last three years, every single person in Oslo reported for sexual assault were immigrants.
Also in general 52% of rape is committed by immigrants, who are only 17% of the population. In Sweden this number is 58%. Yes, there are people of every culture (and since you care about race, of every race) who will rape, but statistics doesn't lie. Your feelings on a subject doesn't matter if you cannot back them up.
I am in no way saying all people of certain countries or regions are this way, but when a big enough percentage pose a threat, it is a problem.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 11, 2019 08:52 AM |
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Edited by artu at 09:44, 11 Feb 2019.
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About the race/culture thing, biologically speaking, humanity is one big race, had the Neandarthals or Denisovans survived, we may have talked about races but as of now, no genetic group is distinct (genetically isolated) enough to be called a seperate race. There are racial feautures, of course, haplogroups, gene lines, but they are all so mixed up and so interlinked, it’s impossible to build racial blocks by them. When an African-American plays an African, they put make up on him and make him two times darker.
Race as a social construct is still a thing though, especially when it comes to groups with distinctive physical appearance such as blacks or far eastern Asians, even though these people are genetically mixed as much as most of us. So people still talk about the existence of racism. Also, today, the term’s meaning has evolved to include having prejudice or overgeneralizing assumptions about members of certain countries or cultures, too. I’m not saying muslim immigration doesnt have its problems and not suggesting anyone who points a finger at such problems is a racist, but “it’s not racism because it is about culture” is not exactly a spot on objection, because almost everybody who complains about racism already knows the issue is not about racial purity anyway. It is not the 1930’s.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted February 11, 2019 09:10 AM |
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Biologically speaking the term race is just not properly defined, the distinct differences between ethnic groups don't come from thin air after all, the problem is defining a threshold in which we can safely assume the distinction of one race from another.
And even then it wouldn't coincide with the traditional: white, black, asian, native American, but would be a far more diverse group with various subclades in each continent, this is easier in the case for isolated groups such as Irish and Sardinians, but becomes more difficult in border regions such as Germany and Poland, or Greece and Turkey.
And if the bar is set too low we'd have a race for each region, but that'd be suboptimal.
Of course, the term race has been so denigrated that this would be seen as a way to legitimise certain fringe views, so it will remain just a nebulous way to describe skin colors.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 11, 2019 09:35 AM |
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Edited by artu at 09:44, 11 Feb 2019.
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But there is no threshold, there are distant parts of the spectrum, sure, but scientifically your race would be something like 25% m25 haplogroup 35% L456 haplogroup etc... Not something you’d want to put on a flag exactly! 
Keep in mind this is before 16th Century, when the mix between the groups had much much less traffic:
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted February 11, 2019 10:35 AM |
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Galaad said:
I would find it wise to get information first, before drawing to personal conclusions.
Your condescension is always welcome, Galaad.
Basically, if you read a book written by Christophe Guilluy, in which he explained how the demographics in France have evolved, you'll get a better idea. I was going to explain things in more details but I changed my mind. I will though cordially summarise it for you:
African immigration in 'Les banlieues' --> The white leave these parts of the city and move to the rural or periurban areas --> These areas are left out of most devlelopment plans for years --> which means few or no transportation --> which means you use the car daily (something you don't do, because you live in an urban area) --> Macron rises the prices of fuel --> It's the drop that makes the vase go nuts and you get this revolt.
So I think my personal conclusions are indeed founded on some data and follow a rather logical path, compared to the mass of people who simply take things at heart without understading at all what they are in, and discovering they have an ideology when such events happen. And they have spoken about it before the big debate of the other clown, so I invite to get information as well.
Greetings.
@the norwegian: I'll be back to you dude.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted February 11, 2019 10:37 AM |
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Edited by Neraus at 10:37, 11 Feb 2019.
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@artu
Well, that's if you consider the entire population of a region to be more "homogeneous" than it is, even here in Sicily, home of the great admixing as people on the alt-right like to use as an "insult", there are regions with certain populations distinct from another region, we have a lot of Greek and Middle Eastern admixture, yet we're one of the few places on Europe outside of Scandinavia with the haplogroup I1.
But anyway, there's also the thing that you'd have to consider the cumulative effect of all genetic markers, it's already used as a criteria to determine ancestry, so it's also a matter of considering the combination of these markers and the minimum divergence in a population.
It's going to be a statistical definition of course, so I don't get the objection there.
I never said it was a black/white issue, on the contrary, I was implying that it would look like a wider spectrum rather than the simplistic view we have today.
It's also my way of saying, stop asking for the white brotherhood to rise, we're not Americans.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 11, 2019 10:55 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 11:03, 11 Feb 2019.
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If you were right about the French in general "thinking like Sal", Le Pen would have won the previous election and she didn't by a large margin.
Immigration is a topic that divides, not one that unites, and certainly not one that can unite to the yellow vests scale and their massive support. I was not being condescending, if you indeed bother to inform yourself by checking the actual news, you will find out that within the main revendications of the yellow vests, immigration is nowhere mentioned.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 11, 2019 11:13 AM |
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@Neraus
My point was, if you try to “properly define” race like you suggest, it would turn into that story of Borges, where there is this empire of great map makers and they keep making bigger and bigger maps with greater detail. Eventually, they end up with a full scale map that covers the empire like a blanket, which is of course, a pretty meaningless thing to have. I mean, unless the concept of race turns into something as distinctive as surnames or something, it will be inaccurate to a serious degree, a very flawed modeling.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted February 11, 2019 11:52 AM |
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Edited by Neraus at 12:00, 11 Feb 2019.
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That's why if it's ever going to be used again it's necessarily going to be a statistical definition, unless we want to make it a familial concept, we don't do surveys asking every citizen about their opinion on something, now do we?
But yes, that's the thing I meant with the difficulty with it, at what point are the markers going to impact in a recognizable manner?
Though probably there's going to be people who will stick to an even stricter margin because... Northwestern Prussians of the coastline in the forest near the border are the superior race?
Anyway, I just don't want to deny the biological background of that concept, I know it would be a giant undertaking to define it that would probably end up being done just to prove a point, if ever.
And yes, I also know that it's not the brightest idea to do right now because people will give an assumption of quality of one set over another, which is an unfortunate side effect since it should be just a way to categorize genetic sets.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 11, 2019 12:15 PM |
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Salamandre said:
@JJ
First, it is not me who complained about political correctness, you must confound with blob. I can live with, but its not difficult to see it evolves the same way as body positivism - to hide critical dysfunctions - which are real - you are simply not allowed to diagnostic them, but use instead lighter and sugarcoated formulas or shut up if you just can't. This is where statistics come in play, is the safest way to put a name on the problem and then start looking for a fix.
PC is already several years old. Do you feel it solved anything or, like we all see, fuels even more disparities and hysteria because it falsifies whats going on while claiming is for the good?
The mainstream narrative is that racism is at the core of racial dysfunctions and equality. Okay, but it remain an opinion - thus questionable - as long as you don't back it with facts, data and statistics. Show me, how specific racist decisions or laws led to stagnation, discrimination and poverty (today ofc!) in any of our democratic societies then I will fight them along you.
I can show you the same crime statistics and point to the vast difference in male and female perpetrators. It's obvious that men commit a lot more crimes than women.
Now. This is an undeniable fact, and it's also undeniable that the difference between men and women is a lot clearer and better defined than any so-called "racial" difference.
Now the question is - have there been ANY consequences based on that? Is there any discussion going about that?
So, again, what do you think your statistic proves and what would you suggest based on it?
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted February 11, 2019 12:39 PM |
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted February 11, 2019 12:45 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 11, 2019 12:46 PM |
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blob2 said:
Are you sure?
Yes.
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted February 11, 2019 12:50 PM |
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That's sexist.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted February 11, 2019 12:50 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:50, 11 Feb 2019.
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JollyJoker said:
blob2 said:
Are you sure?
Yes.
Ok
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 11, 2019 02:01 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
So, again, what do you think your statistic proves and what would you suggest based on it?
What's so hard to figure. More crime -> more time in prison -> less availability for males, which leads to less normally composed families, less proper education for kids, increased poverty, then it continues the same way, with each new generation.
Solution proposed are tons - watch Candace Owens, Thomas Sowell and other conservative thinkers but it always start with the end of accusing others and take responsibility for your own failures. If racism was at the top of factors determining such failures, a simple law would have ended it and also it would have had effects on others communities as well, not only the black one. You fight the culture failures by naming them, not by boosting free assistance which creates dependency, less social mobility while lessening adaptive intelligence. In other words, stop or regulate welfare.
Political correctness isn't a tool for better cohesion and living together, but a tool destined to hide what some find uncomfortable, like when you push the dust under the good looking carpet. It will dilute by itself if the causes are cured.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 11, 2019 02:10 PM |
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That leaves me a bit speechless.
You think PAYING WELFARE is responsible for a high and predominantly male crime rate (less availability of males which would be different if the spread was gender-equal), which in turn is responsble for dysfunctional family structures which in turn lead to increased poverty and less education?
I mean, I could try to argue against that - but it's not even necessary. The US aren't the only country that pays welfare, right? More or less EVERY "civilized" country in the world has a social security system, that includes stuff like health insurance, unemployment insurance, welfare and other things, the US being on the LOW end.
In fact, things like a Basic Income for everyone are seriously discussed in some European countries.
So that CANNOT be the reason in the US, because in that case it would have to look the same in vast parts of Europe, which isn't the case, though.
I think you have to look elsewhere, because that doesn't explain anything.
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This thread is pages long: 
