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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2019 08:15 PM |
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See, there's that racist rhetoric again. The taxpayer pays their taxes, not more, not less. The GOVERNMENT decides, how those taxes are spent, and laws regulate who gets any subsidiaries, if any.
Now. If 1 million people get 833 dollars per month, that's 10 billion dollars per year.
If you check what the war on drugs costs the taxpayer, you'll see that 10 billion are ridiculous. If you further check the article on social consequences and so on, well, it's obvious that you just don't see the bigger picture, but instead shoot on the party you WANT to be guilty instead of looking what's actually going on.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 10, 2019 08:19 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:20, 10 Feb 2019.
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@Sal
So, what is your suggestion here exactly? Force people to marry whenever there is a kid invoved because “taxpayers?” A portion of society having more fathers in prison statistically, is about the conditions, conditions involving many parameters, poverty being the most significant of them. That is not about choices. Deliberately becoming a single mother is, and if one has the means and confidence to try, all I’ll say is good luck.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2019 08:24 PM |
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In life you make errors. Some are easy to fix, others not. Some are decisive and can never be fixed. Having early kids without father support is one of the poor choices condemning a whole community to live under the standards. It is there, under your eyes, but you don't question it one second.
But of course I forgot that you guys are here just to spit your preferred label, "you are a racist". You won.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted February 10, 2019 08:27 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Bickering whites, not happy to work 6 days a week to provide full welfare for lazy alien butts and see their land partitioned into cultural impermeable hamlets
Oh I like stories man I'm gonna tell ya one more. In the beginning of this century there was a French company you must have heard of, it's called Alstom, it produces... mainly trains, which was going bankrupt. Jacques Chirac back then, defending -as he is supposed to- the interests of his nation and his people (as opposed to what some illuminated say about him) came here in my lovely country and negotiated a contract with the president back then, who is still president today. He agreed to give contracts to Alstom, what saved the company from the bankrupt, which saved a non negligeable part of the French economy as well as many people's jobs. Today, we're still signing contracts with Alstom.
So two things: if Alstom went bankrupt, it's because the French are not good providers. The best technology you can get is obviously from the USA and the best quality/price ratio is proposed by China. Second, to save the French company's from its fate due to its incompetence France had to pass an unfair deal with the previous colony.
This process is an example of what Sartre would call neocolonialism, or when Africa actually saves Europe when she screws up. There are conterparts of course, one of which is political help for my president to remain into power, lightening him from a part of his population every year, to "pay" signed the contracts the company wouldn't have obtained under normal conditions, aka fair and square. If you search through the numerous contracts that are signed you will see that these affairs happen very often. And this is technically illegal and can be fairly qualified as corruption.
The problem I have with your statement is that you make your opinion on incomplete data. You only see what Europe does for Africans and not what Africa does for Europeans. You should highlight that to tthe peasants who are revolting over there, convinced that immigration is the source of their misery. Turn the coin.
Quote:
marry and get a job before having them, which is one of the core conditions for not failing at everything later
Alas, that model is finished in western Europe. Last time I checked, they called these new models progress. I prefer refering to them as "progress".
PS. For having tried them, Alstom trains really suck. There's too much iron in them.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 10, 2019 08:39 PM |
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blob2 said:
It would be nice if that was the case. But you yourself said "probably". Ok, guess we are taking some good steps in self-awarness as there is more understanding then ever and it keeps mounting up. But remember that humanity is self-aborbed, and ultimately the more you give, the more they might want... remember that the intention of some groups is not pure.
if we will look at it in your way it is worth keeping in mind that generally overpopulation and various other societal problems dragging everyone down are interlinked with the mass poverty and mass poor education brought on by oppression,
if people perpetuate a vicious cycle it is likelier to trigger societal backlash in a serious way (i.e. mounting inequality leading to escalating class wars and race wars with con artists leveraging the situation, not meager things like video games appealing to wider audiences by representing more people) lol
Salamandre said:
committing less crimes than 10 times the others, stop playing the victim card to get free everything, become tougher and independent, respect those who welcome and help them, educate kids through family values, marry and get a job before having them, which is one of the core conditions for not failing at everything later
unfortunately it is a sloppy mix of nebulous, uncited statistics and some totally unscientific, cartoonish tropes from the 1900s with no basis, a far cry from a constructive and literate commentary on sociohistorical power dynamics,
bear in mind if I as a white Westerner would pull a complacent, Piers Morgan-esque stereotype of poor Romanian immigrants out of my ass it will probably not overflow with flattering statistics and easily identifiable cultural contributions, and may even have some specious merit for a given agenda, but then we would miss out on some derivative piano playing and several maps for Heroes, so such identity politics are not a simple matter of punching down lol
basically try experimenting to curtail prejudice in society so we as a civilisation we can get serious or come with a more genius solution which does not boil down to oppression or genocide, otherwise if you are OK with the status quo you cannot complain lol
fred79 said:
what exactly do you think i'm going to college FOR, guy? i'm GOING to get a degree in gaming graphics. try another insult. maybe you'll get lucky. 
lol sorry to burn you but the point is not a mere insult, the fact is if you love prolonging identity politics and kick and scream a lot to completely deny a concept like white fragility, it can be valuable to examine what your own identity is and see if you fit a certain profile lol
personally I have a good quality of life, I was lucky to get a free education, a well-paying job in telecommunications and a healthy status quo in a stable, wealthy and culturally open nation of Scotland (notwithstanding the stupid Brexit lol), so I really have no excuse to feel insecure or defensive lol
I don't know what hardship you did or did not face in 40 years but in the USA there are huge college fees, so even if you go through a good college for gaming graphics and find a job, it is such a low-paying, low-priority sector that it could take many years working your nuts off to pay your debt, this may exacerbate your state of denial down the line lol
fred79 said:
in fact, i'll ask the same of verriker(being that i already stopped our communication via hcm), since his arguments have devolved into personal attacks(besides the fact of not being able to reach him on even the most elementary level, regarding this subject in particular).
I can post the exact same sentence so basically it is *shrug*, I have left your HCM unopened and have no intention to waste the energy as stated, as long as you do not insist with more passive-aggressive irony callouts that will be the case lol
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 10, 2019 08:41 PM |
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Salamandre said:
In life you make errors. Some are easy to fix, others not. Some are decisive and can never be fixed. Having early kids without father support is one of the poor choices condemning a whole community to live under the standards. It is there, under your eyes, but you don't question it one second.
But of course I forgot that you guys are here just to spit your preferred label, "you are a racist". You won.
Having kids early without the means to support them is not a good idea, yes, but it is completely circumstantial that the support should come from the father. If the woman involved has economic independence, high profile job, it is a different story. How many black women in 1965’s America could have that or even begin to imagine having that, I leave that up to you.
And can you please pinpoint where did I spit “racist” or is it another one of your blanket generalizations that “we guys” just keep doing that.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2019 08:51 PM |
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Don't bother, artu, It's just a proponent of "we don't need political correctness" playing hurt again when called out.
You know, they can put blame quite well, but when they are on the receiving end, they suddenly are oh so sensitive.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2019 09:32 PM |
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@artu, I was answering to JJ and our posts were simultaneous.
Believing I feel hurt is flattering, all I do is pointing to many others causes which may explain why some communities are doing poorer than others. I never say racism diesn't exist, but that it plays a much tinier role than you all suggest.
But what can I do vs the claim "nuclear family" isn't necessary, is not like we have statistics showing single mothers live in extreme poverty 3 times more than couples (individual income ofc) then that studies and education are so costly in the long terms, especially in America. All this is peanuts to you, vs one random guy on reddit who unleashes the n** word, that is causing the doomsday.
As for lolikker, are you serious? Criminal statistics by ethnicity are official, the US department of justice releases them regularly, but I forgot the "snow the statistics when they don't support my narrative". Oh well, why I insist. However thanks for your ad hominem mockeries on my piano and Heroes maps, now at least I know what you really worth.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 10, 2019 09:46 PM |
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AlHazin said:
You should highlight that to tthe peasants who are revolting over there, convinced that immigration is the source of their misery.
Not really following the discussion so pardon me if I'm wrong, but if you are mentioning the yellow vests their main revendications are unanimously about social justice and democracy, not immigration.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2019 09:54 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Believing I feel hurt is flattering,
Sorry, I said PLAYING hurt, not FEELING hurt.
Quote:
But what can I do vs the claim "nuclear family" isn't necessary, is not like we have statistics showing single mothers live in extreme poverty 3 times more than couples (individual income ofc) then that studies and education are so costly in the long terms, especially in America. All this is peanuts to you, vs one random guy on reddit who unleashes the n** word, that is causing the doomsday.
Care to elaborate what one has got to do with the other?
Quote:
Criminal statistics by ethnicity are official, the US department of justice releases them regularly, but I forgot the "snow the statistics when they don't support my narrative".
And here we go, decision time. You have to decide whether you attribute the statistics to the fact that the black people as a "racial community" are more violent and more prone to crime or whether the high conviction rates are based on a couple of social factors (that I'm too lazy to write down right now). Easy question that YOU brought about by writing what you wrote.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 10, 2019 10:00 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:01, 10 Feb 2019.
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Nuclear family is a model, it’s a pretty functional model for sure. There was a time, it was seen as the only model for everybody (in cultures related to the subject). Not building one was considered a taboo, people, both men and women, were pushed into building families even if that was not what they really wanted for their life, even kids, who had no choice in the matter, were shunned as “basterds” if they were born out of wedlock. Then, these taboos started to disolve due to factors I wont list fully here at the moment, overall, the 60’s and the revolutionary changes in sexual taboos are the key factors here, which had a lot to do with birth control pill becoming common, second wave feminism, counter-cultures etc... After that, you have this rookie phase where people are not quite sure how to deal with “the brave new world.” When hippies started raising their “love children” on their own, things took a serious turn. Today, we are not back to such taboos (fortunately) but family values are not put in the trash can either, on average, things got a balance of their own. And when you look at the average suburban black people in America, they are not radically different than any other people about their approach. Of course, if you compare the stability of ghettos and such, with drugs, gangs, and which mostly minorities populate, the results of the comparison will be different but that is because the causes are different.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2019 10:03 PM |
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@JJ
There is a difference between debating on social factors - which I can follow - and claim "is a sloppy mix of nebulous, uncited statistics and some totally unscientific", which is being ideologically indoctrinated to the point facts don't matter to you.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2019 10:12 PM |
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Doesn't change the basic question, since it was you who introduced the statistics.
What are they supposed to prove?
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted February 10, 2019 10:23 PM |
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Galaad said:
Not really following the discussion so pardon me if I'm wrong, but if you are mentioning the yellow vests their main revendications are unanimously about social justice and democracy, not immigration.
It is, it is my dear Galaad, it is. Many of them think the way Salamandre thinks about immigration, which I consider being totally nuts. They want to talk about immigration with your president, he just kind of cannot get into that topic with them though.
You see, they think that they worked hard to pay social aids to immigrants, who in return don't happen to work. Which is partially and only partially the case, even though it's not all of the story, the other half is the Alstom like economic manoeuvers that happen everyday.
And they happen occasionally to be deaf, not wanting to believe the facts and jumping from argument to argument without realising all the points they think they make are immaginary, and their semantic counterproductive.
____________
Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2019 10:38 PM |
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@JJ
First, it is not me who complained about political correctness, you must confound with blob. I can live with, but its not difficult to see it evolves the same way as body positivism - to hide critical dysfunctions - which are real - you are simply not allowed to diagnostic them, but use instead lighter and sugarcoated formulas or shut up if you just can't. This is where statistics come in play, is the safest way to put a name on the problem and then start looking for a fix.
PC is already several years old. Do you feel it solved anything or, like we all see, fuels even more disparities and hysteria because it falsifies whats going on while claiming is for the good?
The mainstream narrative is that racism is at the core of racial dysfunctions and equality. Okay, but it remain an opinion - thus questionable - as long as you don't back it with facts, data and statistics. Show me, how specific racist decisions or laws led to stagnation, discrimination and poverty (today ofc!) in any of our democratic societies then I will fight them along you.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted February 10, 2019 11:02 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 23:13, 10 Feb 2019.
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artu said:
@Sal
The Easteners are doing so well? But I remember watching those street interviews during Brexit and the British locals who were supporting it were talking against the Polish and the Balkan immigrants, too
Yes, but that's your typical "they've taken our jobs so now we hate them" alttitude. It doesn't matter if they're either too lazy or "too good" for it, and don't want to pick the jobs Easterners pick. My countryman can be pain in the butt cus many of the people that went to work there are primitives, but at least most of them work.
Moreover the general feeling between me and those of my acquaintances that went to work in Britain have a feeling/story to tell that because we are white and European, they can snow all they want on us, cus we don't have the "that's racist" defensive cape.
Well whatever the case Britain will get what it wants soon enough with Brexit. It will be interesting to see how will they fare without those filthy Poles and other hard working European nations... especially when they will need to find someone to clean their toilets or nurse their elderly.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2019 11:06 PM |
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 10, 2019 11:21 PM |
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Salamandre said:
are you serious
in a serious discussion one is capable to cite actual statistics and apply any modicum of deeper thinking, rather than blurt cheap one-liners like "committing less crimes than 10 times the others [sic]" out of the orifice without even specifying a particular race or country, mixed in with archaic fantasy fiction lol
to comprehend race and crime in the USA at an introductory level you can go to Wikipedia and follow some links, feel free to study some potential causes and effects of disparate criminality while you are on the toilet lol
there is also a map of Africa on Wikipedia where you can count up how many countries there are over there if you still have difficulty lol
Salamandre said:
However thanks for your ad hominem mockeries on my piano and Heroes maps, now at least I know what you really worth.
you get such a great kick out of making these very low-hanging fruit, elitist value judgements about other races of people, I have simply been curious what fragility would expose if the shoe were on the other foot even a little, predictable lol
in reality you were fortunate to be admitted to the wealthy West and tolerant attitudes like mine have been very accommodating to enable your life, I would think all about paying it back to the next guy rather than live an absurd "got mine" philosophy, but we didn't invent a failsafe for walking paradoxes lol
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2019 11:38 PM |
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Wikipedia says they commit crimes 6 to 8 times. Why and how, that was not the goal of my remind, I was stating a possible direction to investigate instead of bashing again "white racism".
For Africa, I was trolling, but I am flattered you spent so much time in searches on HC to prove how bad I am at maths.
About my "elitists racial" judgements, I think they don't ever match your arrogant and withering mockeries on Romanians you were so generous to leave on several threads but I am out of time to sell you that bridge, so take my word for
And piano, oh. Is that some obsession that your pretentious gibberish can hurt anyone to the point to show a "fragility"? Thats the second time you attack that field, first time I just smiled, second time I see your frustration that I didn't respond before so I make you happy. I saw it! And no, I don't cry nor feel alone suddenly!
I mean, my videos as pianist are publicly available, not hidden and I never made a fuss about. But if one keeps targeting my professional activity - totally of-topic and just to create an emotional response - , am I allowed to ask in return you show me what you are above mediocre good at? Fair.
waiting
lol
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 10, 2019 11:46 PM |
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Al you've been watching fake news. I live there, I watched hundreds of interviews. The only one who brought immigration up is Macron with his "Grand Débat" no one cares about.
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This thread is pages long: 
