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| Thread: Is fortresss overpowered |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 08:40 PM |
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Knights have better def,att over dwarfs only when they have englightenment. Usually i get screwed 50% in games using haven not getting that 
And denfensive formation in the late game, will add something like +6-10 extra defence, don't think paladins can clear stacks, maybe only on bear riders, that's all. Shieldguards -10%/tile is so anti paladin.
That's it, i'm not commenting anymore on this topic,its just my own views from online play, haven is just too weak anywhere against any race, and fortress is simply overpowered
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted August 10, 2007 08:42 PM |
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why does every1 keep talking about shieldguards,they suck their dmg is very low and they're weak and slow and fortress' units deal sucky dmg (i know that LiZaRdMaN will keep saying runes of blah blah blah  )
but fortress isn't overpowered in any1 it's only fair they have a high deff cause their dmg SUCKS even with runes of blah blah blah) besides in a map filled with obstacles they can't do crap 
and if u were able to frenzy the magma dragons with a decent necro hero the frenzied stack will deal 100% more dmg...
only thing that is a bit overpowered is the guard post but still THEY'RE DEFEATABLE
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 10, 2007 09:07 PM |
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Haven is just too weak anywhere against any race
*spits out tea* Wha...? Seriously now, endgame haven is very hard to beat, especially with Klaus. The paladins can massacre almost any stack, while they take out some of your faster units that reach the enemies line quick with Marksmen's precise shot. The peasant training has been nerfed, thank god, but I still get my ass kicked by haven if I don't beat them before they get a decent amount of Paladins.
And I agree, the shieldguards should just be weakened with a decent destructive spell, and then left alone.
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Houseism of the week:
As fascinating as our bodies are, they're also stupid.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 10, 2007 09:33 PM |
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Quote:
and if u were able to frenzy the magma dragons with a decent necro hero they frenzied stack will deal 100% more dmg...
Light magic is very accessible for dwarves so you can forget about frenzy on the magmas...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 10, 2007 09:37 PM |
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Are they even affected by it? They are elemental.
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 10, 2007 09:40 PM |
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Luckily, you can't ressurect them either because of that...Although, is it the same for the rune?
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Houseism of the week:
As fascinating as our bodies are, they're also stupid.
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted August 10, 2007 10:17 PM |
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Are they even affected by it? They are elemental.
they aren't but sandro's cloak remove the immunity doesn't it???
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Light magic is very accessible for dwarves so you can forget about frenzy on the magmas...
that's why i said frenzy not puppet master so their intiative doesn't decrease so they may have a chance to play b4 the hero's turn and that's what i meant when i said IF u can frenzy em they'll kill alot
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One Word : Life
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 10:34 PM |
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The problem is with that stupid rune of resurrection. Yes, it resurrects magmas and it's IMO the main problem. Generally, fortress stacks have to be killed in ONE blow. If not, then ressurection rune happens which resurrects 40% of the fallen just like that. And that is just horrible balancing because opponent's stacks die "for good" and fortress' stacks simply are too tough and can use all those runes. Not to mention all that resurrection refreshing..
If rune of resurrection would be weaker(or simply didn't exist) then stupid dwarves could cast all those runes and it wouldn't matter much because they would be used on a half dead(or even more dead) fortress army. Then those runes won't shine that much and it would be actually worth to try something other than resurrection refresh abuse. Normally, the battle basically looks like berserking(charge sometimes too) and resurrection abuse all the time. Gee, hitting enemy twice with up to 50% chance for a luck - I wonder soooo hard if a skill TWICE better than luck combined with luck is any good? Look at sylvan and what they have to do get +100% damage..
Anyway, without rune of resurrection I don't see how fortress beats haven or sylvan late game.
Haven is maybe the weakest but only if knights are used as a main all the time. Really, knights are needed for training mostly. A wizard(MotW + dark and light magic) or a ranger(easier enlightenment..) as a main is often better. Then, haven is very far from weak - IMO, it's one of the best actually.
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted August 10, 2007 10:44 PM |
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Quote:
Haven is maybe the weakest
OMG! why do u think haven is the weakest look how many (haven is overpowered) posts there are haven is far from weak haven is infact one of the strongest factions and i guess lots of ppl agree with me.
Edit : YAYX! i became a known hero 
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Ppl griveing,Ppl
Deceving,Ppl lying,Ppl dying
One Word : Life
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 10, 2007 10:52 PM |
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...Does anybody here actually read my posts? Or Doomforge's, for that matter? He gave you a pretty good solution for it. On top of that, again:
They have only a limited amount of gems to cast that rune. You're really all starting too complain too much about it. It's not the end of the world. If they have enough resources to cast it more then 3 times, you had either bad luck, or waited too long...Besides, have you ever tried fighting them on a poor map? They don't stand a chance, there. Another solution is also just timing your attacks. Focus on one stack, and that's that...
And again, Haven weak? Uh, no. Ever had a high level Klaus, combined with max paladin? Ecerything gets...demolished. Even those magma's I say...
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Houseism of the week:
As fascinating as our bodies are, they're also stupid.
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Deathy
Known Hero
Angels Galore
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posted August 10, 2007 11:02 PM |
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i agree. while Haven does have somewhat problems against some factions when having Knight hero leading them, they can do fine against most factions with a Knight. and of course having other factions heroes to counter their weaknesses makes Haven easily one of the strongest.
i can't understand all this talk about how end-game Haven wouldn't beat end-game Fortress. i mean all their main killers will act first before any Fortress units(no arties included, seriously, if Fortress could get arties, then so could Haven) meaning Haven could at best situation end up whiping 3 stacks from Fortress army(not even the best situation needed necessarily ) and still be left with the chance that any casualties made on Paladins or Griffins could be repaired with Angels and Hero. 3 stacks wiped, and those 3 would probably be bears,brawlers and magmas or warlords. 3 stacks gone and you can't even res them, what could Fortress do then? of course this won't happen every game, but endgame Haven surely has very good chance to beat Fortress, IMO even with them using Rune of Resurrection. since only stacks Haven might not wipe with one blow are shieldguards and magma dragons. but they still have chance to kill them in one blow too.
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Haven player.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 11:12 PM |
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Edited by sdfx at 23:21, 10 Aug 2007.
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OMG! why do u think haven is the weakest look how many (haven is overpowered) posts there are haven is far from weak haven is infact one of the strongest factions and i guess lots of ppl agree with me.
Ehem..
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Haven is maybe the weakest but only if knights are used as a main all the time. Really, knights are needed for training mostly. A wizard(MotW + dark and light magic) or a ranger(easier enlightenment..) as a main is often better. Then, haven is very far from weak - IMO, it's one of the best actually.
So plz.. and maybe there are a lot of "haven is overpowered" threads because haven WAS overpowered?
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They have only a limited amount of gems to cast that rune.
Still, it's enough..
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Besides, have you ever tried fighting them on a poor map?
Have you ever played vs necro on a poor map? Because that is the reason why playing poor maps is pointless.
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Focus on one stack, and that's that...
They have magmas and ingvar+shieldguards, so focus will not help much anyway. Then rune of ressurrection is abused and it's gg.
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And again, Haven weak? Uh, no. Ever had a high level Klaus, combined with max paladin? Ecerything gets...demolished. Even those magma's I say...
Yes, with MAX paladins or at least 10/week/castle.
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IMO even with them using Rune of Resurrection. since only stacks Haven might not wipe with one blow are shieldguards and magma dragons. but they still have chance to kill them in one blow too.
Only if there is enough gold. If magmas and shieldguards are not killed in one blow stupid abuse begins..
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Tenaka
Famous Hero
Makes sense
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posted August 10, 2007 11:22 PM |
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I'm not even gonna bother to continue quoteing everything...
This shall be my last word(s):
Focus. Which means either taking out the magmas, or the shieldguards. That's pretty much all there is to say about it. I don't see why that should be a problem...
Besides, compared to a good powerful resurrection spell, the rune isn't such a bigg problem. With academy, you usually have more mana then the opponent have gems.
And once again, Havn is really powerful late game, and definitely has equal chances against fortress. It was overpowered du to it's training, but while it's nerfed, it's still got it's power. There's probably a thread with more info on it.
And Max paladins is achievable in rich maps, which, as you say, are almost always played.
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Houseism of the week:
As fascinating as our bodies are, they're also stupid.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 11:31 PM |
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No, the maps that are most played are those where you have 2-3 castles and you can't even afford to build all the dwellings/buy all creatures.. So, the gold income here is pretty low and even late game, there is just not enough gold for training. 2-4 pala are trained but other trained troops are 16-18 marksman.
Capitol -> 4k
But 2 castles -> 4k + 2k -> 3k per castle
3 castles -> 4k + 2k +2k -> 2.666 per castle
and so on
On the other hand, playing vs haven on a rich map is a suicice.
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted August 10, 2007 11:40 PM |
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Quote:
suicice
for some reason i can't understand that word i assume u meant suicide 
____________
Ppl griveing,Ppl
Deceving,Ppl lying,Ppl dying
One Word : Life
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted August 10, 2007 11:42 PM |
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there are lots of factions that loses lots of there strenght on poor maps and i guess fortress is the one most affected with that
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Ppl griveing,Ppl
Deceving,Ppl lying,Ppl dying
One Word : Life
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 11, 2007 12:27 AM |
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Unfortunately, it's not affected enough..
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 11, 2007 01:25 AM |
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Quote:
They have only a limited amount of gems to cast that rune. (...) If they have enough resources to cast it more then 3 times, you had either bad luck, or waited too long ... Besides, have you ever tried fighting them on a poor map? They don't stand a chance, there.
Which, once again, underscores why balancing through resources is a mess. 
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What will happen now?
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted August 11, 2007 08:33 AM |
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I don't know why all the talk about paladins being overpowered but they are really not that powerful. Even cerebus with dreadful defence under a Inferno hero can survive a hit from paladins, i'm serious. And in the event that it kills all, your other six creatures should be able to destroy paladins in no time. In the case of Inferno, pit lords & horned overseers will finish paladins and succubus mistresses can "use" paladins to trigger a full chain shot. With luck, the haven hero just lost tons of creatures.
Back to the topic. Haven can definitely win Fortress end-game. Not only does Fortress sucks big time even with runes, Haven's marksmen are way better than rune patriach + spearwielders. Also, with thanks to decent initiative, Haven can avoid all of Fortress' most dangerous aspects. Abilities like chain lightning strike or crossfire or paw strike won't be as useful as paladins are most likely to dash first and imperial griffins will be in the skies in no time, breaking the connection for chaining abilities. Squires and archangels will make sure marksmen don't die soon and with that, Fortress will be facing a very difficult opponent. While shieldguards are anti-paladin's ability, any Haven attacker in the right mind would not bother with shieldguards until the end. With their low damage and speed, they are as much of a threat as conscripts...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 11, 2007 10:28 AM |
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25 paladins kills 40 deep hydras in one blow with a properly built knight hero, you call that weak..?
About the fortress and the rune, I think it's good to leave the magmas and shieldguards for the very end if you can't kill them at start, thanes are 1st priority units to kill.
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Light magic is very accessible for dwarves so you can forget about frenzy on the magmas...
Cleansing does not dispel frenzy. Still, magmas are elemental, and thus unaffected. But, shieldguards are susceptible to that. You can also try to cast curses if you don't want him to buff (your inquisitors can take care of buffing your key units, eventually..).
About magmas, the best way to kill them is to ignore them, and when time is right, teleport the marksmen near them and kill them all in one blow. Paladins charging aren't the best solution, they will kill themselves at magma shield. It's hard to get the hero next to marksmen at ATB bar, though, so you may try waiting, or such..
Shieldguards with ingvar, battle frenzy, necklece and runes of berserk/battlerage are actually quite powerful, and immune to jousting (shield wall.), but battle dive owns them completely.
ToTe will bring some interesting solutions, I hope.
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