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| Thread: Is fortresss overpowered |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 30, 2007 09:58 PM |
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@silpion
Yes the thane's damage is not magical damage but physical and therefore affected by hero's stats and perks. You may notice that it always does the same damage as the normal thane attack.
@Anakrom
I like your list, I pick a variation of that most of the time. Warmachines will cost you 6 levels and not do something out of the ordinary which I would expect for such an investment(6!) of experience. That by also thinking that ballista costs 4500.
The only reason I would consider them is a flaming arrows rush but otherwise I feel you can do better with a different build and a longer game.
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Undead_Warrior
Known Hero
I hear voices in my head.
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posted January 05, 2008 06:19 PM |
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Dwarves are overpowered because of the runes and the dragons that are best tire 7 creature. And in their town they are invincible. The guard tower that adds 750 Mountain guards and the walls are a BIG advantage
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 05, 2008 06:26 PM |
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You are not well informed, the actual number has been halved since HoF and 'dragons and runes' is not a sufficient argument. I can just say the opposite, they are not unless in a really long game. And let's face it, H5 is mean to be finished within a specific period of time after which your chances for success decrease dramatically with some factions. But on the other hand creeping potential is great so by week 3 you can kill outrageous amounts of strong neutrals.
Now I could also point one by one fortress's flaws and why runes and dragons are a compensation but let's leave it at that.
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted January 05, 2008 06:51 PM |
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Quote:
Dwarves are overpowered
They aren´t. Try to face Dungeon or Inferno rush, or MMR. Dwarves are actually quite weak early and resource dependant. Longer the game is, stronger they are - same as Haven. They also require nice sum of strategy, intuition and skill to play them effectively.
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted January 06, 2008 09:02 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Dwarves are overpowered
They aren´t. Try to face Dungeon or Inferno rush, or MMR.
IMHO, they are, against all might factions, regardless the stage of the game. I'm keen for some enlightenment from good Haven players how to outwit Fortress. As well as that "Inferno rush" - the way I see it, Fortress has better tier 1-4 creatures compare to Inferno.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2008 11:44 AM |
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I'll probably become boring if I say that demonlords have a much better ballista 
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted January 06, 2008 12:41 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Dwarves are overpowered
They aren´t. Try to face Dungeon or Inferno rush, or MMR.
IMHO, they are, against all might factions, regardless the stage of the game. I'm keen for some enlightenment from good Haven players how to outwit Fortress. As well as that "Inferno rush" - the way I see it, Fortress has better tier 1-4 creatures compare to Inferno.
I'm not a Haven player but one of my friends is, he creeps with crossbowmen and Squires for protection and then he goes for training and makes as many Tier 6 creatures as possible. He never uses Priests and when he gets Archangels he never loses any Champions.
Last time we played Fortress vs Haven the last battle was a nightmare, I had Implosion with a high spellpower, rune of battlerage, thunderclap and plenty of ressources to use them. Still, how can you defeat more than 100 Champions. I thought I had a chance when my spearwielders crippled them. In the end he won, many losses but still won.
In that game I had lost a few hundred defenders and I sorely missed them in the final battle. Things might have been different with Dark Magic (mass slow, PM) or if he had used Dark (Vampirism on the Champs may look like a good idea but with the rune of magic control it can be very entertaining).
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted January 06, 2008 01:19 PM |
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Quote:
I had Implosion with a high spellpower, rune of battlerage, thunderclap and plenty of ressources to use them.
Destructive maybe wasn´t best choice for longer game. Light Magic is much better - you could cast Mass Haste, combine Ressurection + Rune of Ressurection and smash Champions with Divine Vengeance.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 06, 2008 01:57 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 13:57, 06 Jan 2008.
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YES!!
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted January 06, 2008 02:58 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I had Implosion with a high spellpower, rune of battlerage, thunderclap and plenty of ressources to use them.
Destructive maybe wasn´t best choice for longer game. Light Magic is much better - you could cast Mass Haste, combine Ressurection + Rune of Ressurection and smash Champions with Divine Vengeance.
Quite true. Unfortunately rune of ressurection was out (only one fortress town). Light is a much better choice but go figure I like the destructive/warlock wanna be way better. 
Plus I hate the silly uber DV (I nerfed it in my game).
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V3Z0W
Hired Hero
Griffin Eternal.
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posted January 06, 2008 03:15 PM |
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Edited by V3Z0W at 15:25, 06 Jan 2008.
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I said yes.I mean come on, with runes they are definetly overpowerd.The runes also make them my favourites on par with Haven.Once I managed to activate the rune that makes a creature attack all creatures that surround it.My creature was 18 Magma Dragons and it also gained luck when it attacked all the 3 creatures and killed them all:around 300 Shield Guards, 41 Nightmares and 8 Arch Demons.That's something I call overpowerd.
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Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
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posted January 06, 2008 04:28 PM |
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Good point, but you should take care what they are talking about here, and that's a game about 3 or 4 weeks (that's no more than 6-8 MDragons - half of what you said) on the most cases, or boring games using ballista (aka "I don't know how to kill neutrals") in order to get a rush.
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hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2008 04:36 PM |
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I will only object to the "I don't know how to kill neutrals" part. Some factions need it to catch up with others and there is no other conventional way that works. You can bet that I know creeping techniques but sometimes that is not enough with what you are given.
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V3Z0W
Hired Hero
Griffin Eternal.
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posted January 06, 2008 06:54 PM |
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Edited by V3Z0W at 19:15, 06 Jan 2008.
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Quote:
Good point, but you should take care what they are talking about here, and that's a game about 3 or 4 weeks (that's no more than 6-8 MDragons - half of what you said) on the most cases, or boring games using ballista (aka "I don't know how to kill neutrals") in order to get a rush.
Well, just to please you even with 6-8 MD you can wreak havoc in the enemy's army.Due to they're very high HP and Defense and they're Magma Shield the MD will stay on the battlefield quite a while and activatig the rune wich gives them 50% chances to avoid any damage can make them even more dangerous.You can also activate the rune I spoke of earlyer in every attack (max 3 times-witch is more than enough really) and also let's not forget they're not the only creatures on the battlefield so not the only ones that can use runes.Used by an experienced player runes can make every creature in the Fortress army the best of they're lvl.Imagine all those combined.
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InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2008 07:06 PM |
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Dwarves have such a difficult start compared to other factions (I'm talking Heroic though). The Defenders are great, but should be upgraded for their ability to inflict slightly better damge. Helmar and Righetous Might ability help out a lot, because you'd be surprised what some points of extra attack can do.
Otherwise, they are at many losses. If you see Arcane Archers guarding a Crystal Mine, you know you're screwed. They are one faction where the Rsource Silo is a safe way to go in the early game. 20 Crystals for the Clan Halls!
The one compenstation for all this is that Dwarves a high on gold. Their buildings are in expensive in terms of gold, and their capitol costs only 8000. The Lava Rift is also quite cheap, but it will take a few turns of struggling to get.
Which means that in most games, you line-up will include Defenders, Skirmishers, Bear Riders, maybe Berserkers, and Fire Dragons. Both Thanes and Priests have expensive dwellings, so you'll need to get really lucky with precious resources.
When it gets to the late game though, Dwarves have it easy. They are potent casters, have high natural defense, good HP for most units, and of course runes. The Rune of Resurrection is a little unfair, and if you have plenty of resources, you can use it many times (Refresh Rune). Then there is the Rune of Berserking, and if you can get two hits with either a Magma Dragon or a Thunder Thane, you've got a huge advantage.
So Nival got the balance mixed up. Difficult survival in the early game and slightly less difficult survival in the late game does not make a faction overpowered.
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Duncan
Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
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posted January 07, 2008 11:43 AM |
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@Inferno: I'm already trying to narrow our view for just late game Fortress against other might factions, and see if they're still overpowered. That's where the Fortress vs Haven discussions are coming from.
But anyway thx for such an enlightening discussion, guys. Guess I'm just too Fortress-minded thus perhaps somewhat blinded on the potential of other factions  I'd appreciate it if we bring context in our discussion though, 'cause one minute "100 Champions" and another "3-4 weeks" can mislead the conclusion, should any be derived.
Just to further my 2 cents: Dark is ofc always wanted, but it's just 2% for Runemage. And yes, let's bring DV out of our picture unless it's fairly nerfed.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 07, 2008 12:33 PM |
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It's kinda hard to balance the costs of mage guilds, rune guilds and expensive dwellings. To make most use of fortress, you need magic, runes and creatures working together, because using the separate strengths of the this faction isn't enough, i.e creatures are weak without magic and runes, runes can't do much without creatures, and magic alone won't do beacuse dwarves aren't the best mages around, to be honest.
And to get those things to work, you need a lot of time, a lot of luck (to get the best spells/runes), a lot of resources, it's kinda hard to balance out these things AND keep up with opponent's speed of creeping and leveling. Dwarves are great if you really know what you are doing and you're skilled enough to survive early rushes and NOT become imprisoned in your own castle, turtling while the opponent steals your mines. If you can't handle it, dwarves are definitively a no-no to you.
Are the overpowered in ToTe? Not really.
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Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
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posted January 07, 2008 01:46 PM |
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Quote:
I will only object to the "I don't know how to kill neutrals" part. Some factions need it to catch up with others and there is no other conventional way that works. You can bet that I know creeping techniques but sometimes that is not enough with what you are given.
The underlined part is what is known as "unbalance" or "imba" in my city, because if some need to catch it in order to be at the same level, what will happen when the rival gets the same? IMHO, for getting ingame balance, as it is now, some things need to be revamped, and among them is War Machines Skill, because all factions don't have the same shoot power, and with this Skill you can wreak havoc only with 4 - 6 levels, so their requirements for some abilities should be linked to other ones in order to balance the levels cost/efficiency for some factions.
Quote:
Well, just to please you even with 6-8 MD you can wreak havoc in the enemy's army.
I know, I only told you what I thought they would say to you. My opinion is they are clearly overpowered (as other many things in the game). Although, you need to take some things into consideration (which they'd say to you probably too):
1 - You can get 6-8 MD, of course, but probably you'll have no Thanes or perhaps a low number of them.
2 - They have low initiative (9) so they can be destroyed on a massive attack (better with Slow)
3 - Level 7's have a weak point: they can be harmed seriously by the hero.
4 - In order to wreak havoc you need to reach the enemy fast (at first turn, preferably), so you need the charge rune, so you can't count with the most powerful ones (Berserking/BattleRage).
Till next time!
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Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted January 07, 2008 04:22 PM |
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fortress = bad at creeping?
Fortress is actually very good at creeping. You only need about 50 shieldguards and 45 spearwielders which is very easy to get. Just send over your indestructable shieldguards and sit there and shoot spears at the enemy (good to have cheap ammo cart by the way, cuz spearwielders have about 3 shots)
Anyway I still believe fortress is overpowered because
Tier 1: 55Shieldguards per week (with castle and 1 dwelling, which is usually the case). They are indestructable with ranged and they have almost as much life as Assasins which do a bit more damage but have 3 times less of them. Plus you get 350 extra shields when defending your last town.
Tier 2: Skirmishers are great with their crippling attack, and their low shots don't mean anything at all becuase Fortress' Blacksmith specialty is Ammo Carts, which improve your skirms' attack if you havbe War Machines skill by the way.
Tier 3: Bears are fast and strong and you get a lot of them. They're paw strike is also handy for protecting your bears from retaliaton, as well as positioning them well sometimes.
Tier 4: Berserkers are a bit weak but their rage is handy too and you get a huge 16 of them every week, with castle and booster.
Tier 5: Total overpower. Even the unupgrades have 60life which is a massive 20 more than Academy's upgraded tier 5. They are great shooters too and their casting is a good bonus, though I don't use them much.
Tier 6: Don't even get me started on this. With their storm bolt Warlords have a high initiative which means they will act before most of the enemy's troops, and just hit the line of troops and damage each stack. With Rune of Charge they will just speed over with same result.
Tier 7: Slow, but very powerful nonetheless. Anyway, Rune of Charge can cope with that easily.
So anyway I was playing last night and I had 96 shields, 87 spears, 24 brawlers, 21 bears and 2 thanes by the end of week 2. Thats what I call overpowered, since this is pretty much an early indestructable army. I killed 7 cavaliers with almost no losses.
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted January 07, 2008 04:37 PM |
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Quote:
I killed 7 cavaliers with almost no losses.
You easily can do it in first week with all factions...
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