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| Thread: Is fortresss overpowered |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2007 04:59 PM |
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skullman
Famous Hero
banned
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posted December 09, 2007 05:10 PM |
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they stink to me cause they got so low attack and i'm not a big fan defense
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pinkspear
Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
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posted December 09, 2007 05:59 PM |
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Quote:
they stink to me cause they got so low attack and i'm not a big fan defense
Well said. Fortress stinks.
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Lordi
Known Hero
I Dance on the Lava
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posted December 09, 2007 06:15 PM |
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Quote:
The thing is, different from other games the balancing of this game is all about timing. I mean, each race has its moment to shine, be it for Dungeon early game or Sylvan end-game, etc...
Or it is map dependant: on maps with lots of gold haven is king, lots of resources academy and dwarves are better...
So you cannot say that races are balanced neither can you say they are imbalanced... it all depends on the situation.
bahh i forgot to say that it also depends on map T_T
nvm you fixed me ^^
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magma_dragon
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 09, 2007 06:29 PM |
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its not overpowered its balanced
that lvl4 dude i never use him coz he demands too much resoures and with poor 25 hp and att 9 and def 9 !
their power lies in their magma just kill it and its below average faction .. btw anyone thinks that they are so poor in magic ?
maybe u could take them on with academy so easily
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WarLore
Famous Hero
servant of urgash
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posted December 09, 2007 06:43 PM |
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they are strong with destructive and light magics,and they power lies also thanes
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A Nightmare from below.A hero from Within
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted December 09, 2007 08:18 PM |
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A great town got even better in ToTE. The alternate upgrades allow for some spectacular synergies. You want to a fire mage that can stand with the big boys? Magmas/Fire Lords/Rune Keepers are just the thing. Harpooners got such a bit damage boost its not even fair. When creeping, keep a few Skirmishers in stacks of one and one big stack of Harpooners. Crippling wound's proc isn't damage dependent.
As for dwarven vulnerability to dark, anytime you go against a dark user you'd be a fool not to have dwarven luck. So, dwarven luck, rune of exorcism, and magic immunity (4th level light) I think are so superior to dark I would hesitate to even try it.
I do have a question. Is Refresh Rune affected by Sorcery?
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Veteranewbie
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 17, 2007 05:51 PM |
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But one thing for sure: magma dragons are insane
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Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
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posted December 18, 2007 04:45 PM |
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They are clearly imbalanced.
First - They all can attack you in a row (a couple of stacks dead by the face), thanks to the Charge Rune.
Second - Thanes and the Stormy Strike, which damage doesn`t decrease with every leap (not just like the Chain Lightning). Try with the BattleRage Rune and you'll see what a lot of laughings (damage multiplied to every one by the face!)
Third - Resurrection Rune, I think it is not needed to add something here.
Fourth - Last but not least, try to cast Armageddon with 2 or 3 stacks inmune to fire, you'll roll laughing on the floor. Nival avoided the Dungeon/Armageddon's classic, but it seems they forgot this new sauciness.
IMHO, the problem could be easily solved: just make the Runes activations consume 50% of their turn, and perhaps make some parameters lower, like Stormy Strike damage (with BattleRage Rune counted too - apply the Strike once only), the percentage of Rune Resurrection or turn the fire inmunity to a certain fire resistance (which should be apply to demons too), let's say 30%.
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Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 18, 2007 04:54 PM |
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First they have bad attack and damage.
Second even a mediocre player will be smart enough to place units so as to avoid this.
The third could be better balanced but it's not really broken.
Forth the dwarves have mediocre spellpower while the warlocks high with potential for empowered spells AND buying elemental arties from town AND a now buffed elemental vision.
There ya go, not too bad 
The rune of elemental immunity would indeed be better to give magic proof instead but having the runes consume atb along with their low initiative would make the faction weak. Or they'd have to get mass haste in any game to be competitive.
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Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
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posted December 19, 2007 04:45 AM |
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Quote:
First they have bad attack and damage.
Not bad enough after all, Runemages are the most balanced heroes about STATs. A bad "something" could be Defence for Dungeon or Inferno or Attack for Necro or Sylvan, but Dwarves? I don't think so, and even less if we count Runes like Berserker or Battlerage (multiply damage). Anyway, all factions should limp from some foot, if you think they have low attack and damage, look at Defence, for example.
Quote:
Second even a mediocre player will be smart enough to place units so as to avoid this.
Yes, and even a mediocre player should know the only way is placing some stacks together (except using tactics, what forces you to use up 2 levels), so:
1 - You can avoid a long chain strike, but you can't save half of your stacks
2 - Area Spells could be a real pain, and even more if we count Ignite.
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The third could be better balanced but it's not really broken.
And fortunately is one thing we can MOD 
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Forth the dwarves have mediocre spellpower while the warlocks high with potential for empowered spells AND buying elemental arties from town AND a now buffed elemental vision.
What do you mean? Are the Warlocks able to use Armageddon+Immunity?
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having the runes consume atb along with their low initiative would make the faction weak. Or they'd have to get mass haste in any game to be competitive.
Low initiative? Of course they aren't the most swifter ones, but they're around 10, like many others, at least the get Mass Haste, of course. The only difference is that Dwarves can get it with high probabilities from two ways: Light and Offence, and so many others only from one, and sometimes they can have some problems to do that.
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Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted December 19, 2007 05:07 AM |
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Second only to the Necropolis, the Fortress is my patron faction. I take great offense to the account that they are "weak". I will first comment on said things. First, at the Armageddon Immunity thing:
-Irresistble Magic clearly states "to creatures that were otherwise RESISTANT. MAGICAL IMMUNITIES, if any, STILL REMAIN."
-Artifacts don't help against immunity.
-Elemental Vision, if i'm not mistaken, requires the opposite alignment. As i recall, most of the fortress have Fire as their dominant element. Or earth. But neither are vulnerable to Armageddon.
-Warlocks may have high spellpower, but dwarven luck levels it out.
Now, on with my comments.
General Pros-
Defense- Like mithril armor.
Runes- Make up for all the skills they lack.
Hero Defense- As if creature weren't enough.
Magical Immunity- Immune to Fire is good for the most dangerous of the Destructive Magic.
Movement- No problem with Rune of Charge
Creature Pros-
Tier 1- Legendary defense, and even better with abilities.
Tier 2- Still rather defensive, and can do some good while sitting in one place
Tier 3- Nice for armored assault, and annoying to boot with either Paw Strike or Bear Roar.
Tier 4- Strike Fast, and a good size stack is deadly to Dragons.
Tier 5- Fun, and bolsters defense even further with barriers.
Tier 6- Big, tall, steely, and mad. Hard to kill, harder to avoid.
Tier 7- Best hitpoints and defense. Immune to Fire, and makes Fire. What else do you need?
Overall Pros- Morale and Luck make it easier to defend. Hard to kill. Get into there defensive trap, and its even deadlier.
Overall Cons-
Attack is not their strong point, but Runes make up for that. They are on the backside of the intiative curve, but move far.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted December 19, 2007 06:57 AM |
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Quote:
What do you mean? Are the Warlocks able to use Armageddon+Immunity?
No, But a warlock doing 7 implosions consecutively would overall do more damage to each creature then 7 armegeddons from a runemage would.And youd usually rather concentrate your attacks in most cases.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted December 19, 2007 10:13 AM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 10:13, 19 Dec 2007.
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Dwarves are not so bad at SP, its their highest stat.... id pick 7 dwarven armageddons over 7 empowered implos (when it comes to total damage, not to generally better move)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 19, 2007 11:00 AM |
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Quote:
-Irresistble Magic clearly states "to creatures that were otherwise RESISTANT. MAGICAL IMMUNITIES, if any, STILL REMAIN."
-Artifacts don't help against immunity.
You mean you have not seen magmas hit by firewall or decreased damage from the resistance mini arties? Actually the last I had seen on HoF but can safely assume that they are still effective vs warlock's destructive. They can bypass only a part of the resistance.
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Not bad enough after all, Runemages are the most balanced heroes about STATs. A bad "something" could be Defence for Dungeon or Inferno or Attack for Necro or Sylvan, but Dwarves?Quote:
Was referring to their first hit with rune of charge of course.
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Yes, and even a mediocre player should know the only way is placing some stacks together (except using tactics, what forces you to use up 2 levels), so:
1 - You can avoid a long chain strike, but you can't save half of your stacks
Gimme a break I'm sure many of your units will have over 10 initiative to act first and avoid stormstrike but otherwise you can place them in a way that even if it only hits half the units it is not worth it because he'd rather attack melee.
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What do you mean? Are the Warlocks able to use Armageddon+Immunity?
Who cares about the immunity when you can kill all the enemy's army?  Armageddon is only 1/3 chance and by the time you have the money to upgrade your fire-immune units destructive will not be as effective as light. Destructive is to be used early.
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Low initiative? Of course they aren't the most swifter ones, but they're around 10, like many others, at least the get Mass Haste, of course. The only difference is that Dwarves can get it with high probabilities from two ways: Light and Offence, and so many others only from one, and sometimes they can have some problems to do that.
Please, the dwarves don't have haste-exlusive rights. And make up your mind, what will you plan to get destructive or mass haste?  Anyway having to get mass haste to use runes would be limiting your choices.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 19, 2007 11:28 AM |
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To be honest, since Academy is 'overpowered' and Sylvan is 'Overpowered' and ect ect ect...these are getting kind of old. It all depends on the player, and how good they are. Just like every other town there are counters for them. For instance fire immune creatures, or arcane armor. For the shieldguard, that is what they made vulnerability for, or flaming arrows...or slow (since they are snail like anyhow).
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Message received.
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted December 19, 2007 01:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
After magma dragons and shieldguards are fallen(about two years since battle started) the rest of them will fall quite easily. There is noly one problem..who those DRAGONS can fall(hit, hit, implosion, hit, meteor, hit, hit, hit, hit,implosion, hit, hit and still standing!!)?
1.hero attacks --> 1,5 dragon per turn (if you have nothing else to do)
2.empowered endgame implosion --> 18 dragons killed per spell
3.Multiple pitlords + excruciating strike --> dragons down without any effort
4.Marksmen triggering pierceshot --> all dragons killed in one blow (may be tricky to do though..).
those seem the best.
Once I was getting like 4 drags per week (with 2 mil. posts) so if you keep that going for a month thats around 18 drags every month. Still if you do happen to have either
1. zounds of marksmen
2. Spell power 20 + empowered spells + implosion (not too good odds huh)
then just maybe you can achieve that.
anyway, I agree that Magma Dragons are pretty much overpowered. However, magma drags have comparatively very low speed, not like blacks who can cross field in one turn. But if you have teleport... BOOM BOOM
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elmek
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 19, 2007 05:26 PM |
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Quote:
However, magma drags have comparatively very low speed, not like blacks who can cross field in one turn. But if you have teleport... BOOMBOOM
Rune of charge? Speed 10 is more than enough to cross the battlefield in one turn.
The initiative is a whole different thing, but that's what def is for.
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted December 19, 2007 08:51 PM |
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Quote:
For the shieldguard, that is what they made vulnerability for, or flaming arrows...or slow (since they are snail like anyhow).
Wait a sec... aren't Shieldguards 'armored'? (immune to spells like Vulnerability which decrease defence)
That's why I say Shieldguards are overpowered cuz there's now way you can stop them.
1. Charge with all your troops -> Shield Wall (every tile enemy walked to hit = -10% dam.)
2. Pick them off with ranged -> 50% off all ranged attacks
3. Decrease their defence -> IMPOSSIBLE, armored
Spells are the only way to kill 'em. But... first cast Magical Immunity, then cast Divine Strength, then finally Teleport. And voila! You've got a mega monster with high speed, high power, high defence, high quantity, high HP... scary huh?
I attacked 150 Shieldguards, 50 spearwielders and 14 bears with 236 Master Gremlins, 34 Steel Golems, 14 Archmages, 8 djinns and 36 stone gargs. I won with 56 grems, 14 steels, 4 mages left. I had Mark of the Wizard and 2-mana Eldridge Arrow and was casting it on everyone and hitting 2 ppl at the same time, etc. etc. The result was that the shieldguards were totally wrecking my army and I had powerful Vulnerability spell but couldn't use it!! If you look at my army you'll agree I had a close call, cuz FORTRESS IS OVERPOWERED... kinda.
Tier1: Insanely overpowered. No way to make them weaker (armored ability), and paired with Rune of Charge they'll cut your army down like monkeys. The only weakness is their low speed (though a rune or spell will fix that) and their low damage. I mean... pickaxes?!?!
Tier 2: Weak. Practically no shots, even for short, early battles its not enough. Ammo cart fixes that though.
Tier 3: Upgrade is essential. Paw strike really pisses people off when they've got so much initiative accumulated. Armored ability makes them very defensive as well and they've got a better speed now.
Tier 4: Brawlers - weak on the HP, average damage, average speed. Nothing great to say about 'em.
Tier 5: Slightly overpowered. Good HP, spellcaster... no good in melee though but I've found it almost never gets to that stage.
Tier 6: OVERPOWERED. Lightning strike ability is even better than Chain Lightning and Rune of Charge makes them glide straight the the enemy, hit almost the whole army... DOOM.
Tier 7: I think every1'll agree this is totally overpwred. I've already listed the reasons... well. Argue away guys...
OH a final note. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE SCENARIO/SITUATION.
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted December 19, 2007 08:54 PM |
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maybe u could take them on with academy so easily
I tried just that... read my last post. I think you'll find it interesting.
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