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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 06, 2009 01:55 PM |
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Dude, if it's even remotely close to the Spanish Flu I suggest we freak out.
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted May 06, 2009 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
I did not read the thread but the swine flu is scary.
Pretty sick too.
I think we all know what the mexicans did with the Pigs.
Then they brought it out here in the US's.
Me being half Mexican, I am pretty disgusted.
Very contagious, one cough.
Just be careful. Someone coughs, just run for cover!!!
manuel... lol... If I read that from another member I just could ask val to ban him, but comming from your anything takes different sense 
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Dig Out Your Soul
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted May 06, 2009 07:57 PM |
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Let me try to clear this out.
"Swine flu" and spanish influenza are caused by the VERY SAME virus, my friends. Both are Influenza A H1N1 genetic variants.
I know what you're thinking. Hey, wasn't spanish influenza the disease which killed 20-100 million people worldwide, being possibly the most scary pandemic of all times? The answer is YES.
Now if you take this very same AH1N1 and study its distribution along history, you will also notice there has been some other outbreaks around the globe. Some killing but a few people, and vanishing without an explanation. That translates the following: after a couple mutations, the very same virus can be a radically different virus. And they mutate at a very fast pace, sometimes gaining virulence (aka destructive power) sometimes losing it.
Since this agent is not static, previous data is of little help to support the theory that this one is going to cause the next pandemics. Those who say the contrary are speculating. Which I think generates more panic than anything else. A panicked population tends to protect themselves, but with all survival mechanisms working full-steam, they are also prone to act stupid. E.g the slightest running nose gets them seeking medical attention in crowded rooms and lines, where they end up infected by the real deal, further accelerating the disease spread.
The correct attitude, IMO, is to let the population know about the outbreak, that there is a possibility of widespreading that can still not be calculated and that everyone should do their part to hinder its propagation, by means of .... (long explanation about prevention mechanisms)
Thats what I expect from the top health-sanitary institution in the globe. Not forecasting for the media and farma-industrie.
Dont get me wrong. They can speculate as much as they want, just not behind the microphone. I can perfectly speculate as well, but that does'nt mean I'll have any scientific back up to support my claims.
Until then, there is no evidence this variant has the power to bring doomsday. Period.
W.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 06, 2009 10:26 PM |
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Quote:
Dont get me wrong. They can speculate as much as they want, just not behind the microphone. I can perfectly speculate as well, but that does'nt mean I'll have any scientific back up to support my claims.
Did they say they have scientific data to back them up?
If not, what's the problem? That people are too blind and listen to them like sheep? Their fault.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted May 07, 2009 12:29 AM |
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Quote:
Did they say they have scientific data to back them up?
If not, what's the problem? That people are too blind and listen to them like sheep? Their fault.
Sure Death, why to demand responsability in the claims of this world's top health institution? We are the ones supposed to evaluate how serious they mean it, right?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 07, 2009 01:10 AM |
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I mean anyone can claim anything. Why can't they?
As long as they didn't provide data or said anything about it, why ASSUME that it is backed by data?
Of course I'm well aware they wanted to increase profit for medicine industry. Still doesn't make what they did 'wrong'.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted May 08, 2009 10:41 AM |
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Edited by Galev at 10:43, 08 May 2009.
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As I happen to study epidemiology of infectious disease all this semester (and some microbiology too) I would like to add my piece to the thread.
I would like to react to some special points like
Quote:
"Swine flu" and Spanish influenza are caused by the VERY SAME virus
The big deal with flue is that it is SO capable to change. They call it antigen shift and antigen drift (stupid they call it like this in every language ... anyway). Shift is a major change, drift is a minor change.
Backup: Antigens are stuff that activate immune-response -well, in short. They are usually proteins, but DNA can be antigen too. So the immune system recognizes the antigen as "foreign" and in a process I don't yet know (will know next semester  ) the immune system activates initiates a specific immune response.
So as immune response is specific, it is a Bad thing flu changes fast. That's why there's a new vaccine every year. (and those are not 100% efficient by the way)
So This flu is not the very same, only very similar.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure ordinary flu kills a good bunch every year.
And it is true, and it is a bad thing people underestimate flu. They call it silent killer. It killed more men than the first world war! (of course it occurred right after the 1stWW, and immune-state/hygiene-state was not the best). And today "ah it's just a flu". Also it's important that not every running nose and cough-cough is a flu. It is a sudden high temperature and muscle pain with respiratory symptoms. And you should note that as a virus it is untreatable by antibiotics.
BUT! You should not panic! That solves nothing and it's no need at all. I agree that it is probably exaggerated by media. If you usually don't eat raw meat you need not to worry about catching it from a pig (if you don't kiss pigs...). But if it IS spreading from human to human, it could cause an epidemic, but I think it would be similar to an "ordinary" flu epidemic. Though this serovariant of the virus might be new and probably unknown to most of the people's immune sys., but I doubt it could cause much more harm than flu did till know. But as I said That is not small either.
We can't predict it, but don't be afraid. If you want to worry, think of the energy-crisis 
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted May 08, 2009 10:51 PM |
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Hi there Galev. Tanks for contributing to the subject.
But I unfortunately think you did'nt get what I meant.
Quote:
"Swine flu" and Spanish influenza are caused by the VERY SAME virus
The big deal with flue is that it is SO capable to change.
...
So This flu is not the very same, only very similar.
If you read my post again you will notice the following sentence.
That translates the following: after a couple mutations, the very same virus can be a radically different virus.
That was basically my point. It is the same virus, taxonomically speaking. But it is not the same at all, genetically speaking. Which was the whole point behind my post.
Viruses get "introduced" to the immune system through a very complex process involving a system called MHC (major histocompatibility complex). I am surely not going to explain it here at lenght because it would get people to commit suicide out of boredom. But a bit of if wont hurt. SO, more accurately speaking viruses are normally used by MHC of class I. After being neutralized by circulating immunoglobulines the virus is then "swollowed" by non-specific defense cells. Within those cells, those viruses are shred to very small pieces (epitopes). The result of that is a huge bunch of viral clusters lying around. Those clusters are then transported to the cell-surface and exposed by this wonderful MHC structures which are individually programmed to accept but a few kinds of epitopes. That means in no time this non-specific low-grade defense cell has its surface covered with useful viral-data.
So, within lymphnodes and the spleen we have a "traffic-control agency". There, such defense cells engage contact with the very specific defense cells (lymphocytes) which happen to be sitting there just waiting for trouble. They too have very specific "tastes" and are genetically programmed to bind to only a few epitopes each.
When they DO find their respective, tasty viral-pieces on the cell-surface that perfectly fits their receptors, thigs get nasty. BANG! The droid is then set to "kill mode", it starts replicating like there is no tomorrow as pumping out loads of immunoglobulins to inactivate those unfortunate viruses who happen to have that epitope on them, restarting the circle.
Viruses like influenza A, that undergo constant mutation have no more similarities with the epitopes known to our body. Therefore they are completely new, altough "the same".
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted May 16, 2009 08:36 PM |
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I heard the name of this new disease mutates faster than the virus itself.
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winterfate
Supreme Hero
Water-marked Champion!
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posted May 16, 2009 10:36 PM |
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Quote:
I heard the name of this new disease mutates faster than the virus itself.
+1
Anyways, any update on AH1N1? Apparently, the media hype (at least over here in Puerto Rico) died out already.
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If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted May 18, 2009 04:28 PM |
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Numbers in Japan seem to have increased quite substantially in the past few days. Specially among students. Im curious to see how virulent was the serovar over there. Besides Mexico, the fatality cases are quite low so far. The current variant of the AH1N1 seem to have decreased its virulence in the past two weeks, although conserving its high infectivity. Lets check out if its a temporary change or if its going to be sustained.
Anyways, Im waiting to see what will be said in WHO reunion, next monday.
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted June 01, 2009 11:17 PM |
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@Wolfsburg
I hope you didn't take my sudden "pop up then disappear" as rudeness. I just have a strange relationship with HC recently.
Anyways, it is so good to see someone else interested in health sciences. We may see each other in other threads.
Back on topic; Then I misunderstood your post. Yes, it is the same virus taxonomically: Influenza virus, but genetically it is different.
So well,...
hope we survive.
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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winterfate
Supreme Hero
Water-marked Champion!
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posted June 02, 2009 12:43 AM |
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The first case in Puerto Rico was diagnosed a few days ago, but it seems to not have spread.
(Either that or they're trying to prevent mass panic.  )
@Galev: 
Whatcha studying?
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If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
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Galev
Famous Hero
Galiv :D
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posted June 03, 2009 01:07 PM |
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Public Health, at your service
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Incidence? I think it's cummulative!
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted June 03, 2009 03:06 PM |
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This disease sucks. It doesn't even kill anyone in any country that actually has a medical system.
Now what are we supposed to do about overpopulation?
Genocide jokes aside, people are freaking out over a disease that spreads between people after close contact, and causes flu-like symptoms.
Wait a second, doesn't the normal flu do that? 
Everyone needs to chill out. I think swine flu is a conspiracy, a disease created by little kids to get out of school.
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John says to live above hell.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 03, 2009 03:08 PM |
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Plus I think Lord Crusader waits in the darkness for yrs until I say something very interesting
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Wolfsburg
Promising
Known Hero
... the Vampire Doc
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posted June 03, 2009 06:54 PM |
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Nope, Galev, I was'nt offended in any way by your absence. But its good to have you back!
Quote:
This disease sucks. It doesn't even kill anyone in any country that actually has a medical system.
...
Genocide jokes aside, people are freaking out over a disease that spreads between people after close contact, and causes flu-like symptoms.
Wait a second, doesn't the normal flu do that?
Everyone needs to chill out. I think swine flu is a conspiracy, a disease created by little kids to get out of school.
Sorry to disagree here Titanium, what scares us health professionals is not necessarily how severe the disease's symptoms present themselves at the moment, but the pandemic potential of it.
If you take a regular flu virus, you will notice many people have developed antibodies against this particular sub-type along their lives. So you would have a slow rate of transmition, something like.
1 infected person contacts 5 others. 3 of them supress viral progression at initial stage, 2 develop the disease. This two people contact another five each, from which one in each group develops the disease. Those two contact another five people each, from which two develop the disease. This means, we are at the fourth "generation" of contactants, and we have a total of only SEVEN sick people. Even if those die, it would'nt be a complete catastrophe.
Now lets take Influenza A H1N1 case. Almost no human being in the globe has immunity against it. So progression would look a bit like:
1 infected person contacts 5. 5 of them develop sickness. Each of them contact another five people, from which 25 develop the sickness. So on and so forth. At the end of four generations we have 3125 sick people. Against SEVEN of the regular flu group.
This has a name: pandemic potential. And THAT is the big deal about AH1N1. So the absolute number of deaths due to regular flu mean nothing to us. I does'nt serve experts as counterargumentation to their current red-alert either. We know what to expect from regular flu, and it repeats itself every year. There are rarely any large scale epidemics. While A1H1N1 can unleash global epidemics within just a few host generations.
Although I am very skeptic myself that this virus is going to be the one to spread misery like his forefathers, I DO recommend you guys taking it seriously and adhering to biological protection recommendations, in case this disease reaches your region.
W.
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Ądrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 05, 2009 10:38 AM |
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K guys, so I've got this offer on getting the vaccine for this damn flu...
Problem is that some people say that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease itself, stuff like it containing more quicksilver than normal or something.
Since I'm young and haven't experience any major flu event my immunity is probably quite low though so I might need the vaccine...
Argh, I can't decide! I know the media wants me all scared and confused and well, they've won.
Kinda weird how Sweden and Norway are the only countries who gives vaccine to all of its citizens, guess we're more paranoid than others.
So anyway, vaccine or no vaccine? Help me here.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted October 05, 2009 10:50 AM |
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I don't have enough information to help Adrius. Like you I have heard many different things, but have found no proof one way or another. Without proof it is just wild speculation. The virus is worse for the very young, the very old, or pregnant people. Any other illness can cause problems also. So all I can advise is keep doing the research and make an informed decision.
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Message received.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 05, 2009 11:02 AM |
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Vaccines for bacteria=good
Vaccines for viruses=only temporary, useless after a few months
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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