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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 11, 2011 05:42 PM |
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@Diablo
Maybe this will help.
In any case, these are legal definitions, not ethical or moral ones.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted August 11, 2011 06:33 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
It is the same as claiming that if I poisoned 1 random meal at a caffiteria, it can't be murder because it lacks direct attempt.
but it can't be unvoluntary murder.
and if I go to the street and fire a gun in random directions and kill someone? isn't it murder? don't tell me it's an accident
There is a small distinction: With the gun there is actually a chance that you hit nothing.
I don't know if there is anything resembeling a international "accidental shoting people during hunt"-law, but if you shot at a moving target without a background object(mountain side, etc), there is a chance that you might hit somebody.
If you are firering in a city core, and limit yourself to 360 degrees your arms can swing, the chance is so high I guess it would be more or less equal to the poisoning attempt.
But:
With 200 students that is going to each lunch, and 200 premade lunchpacks somebody is going to die or get sent to the hostpital.
So it is a 90% chance vs 100% chance dilemma of sorts.
Or what was the point?
____________
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 11, 2011 09:40 PM |
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Quote:
It is the same as claiming that if I poisoned 1 random meal at a caffiteria, it can't be murder because it lacks direct attempt.
I didn't say anything about a direct attempt. I said there had to be an action that harms others. Poisoning someone's food is harming them. It's murder because you (presumably) intend to kill someone, and whoever it is is acting normally and isn't trying to kill themselves.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 16, 2011 03:10 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 15:11, 16 Sep 2011.
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Dilemma #11
You are 66 years old and healthy as a teenager. Your spouse, however, is slightly older and was diagnosed with Alzheimers several years ago. She is now in hospice care. You visit her every day for an few hours, and love her with all your heart, but she hardly recognizes you any more. You feel alone.
A few months ago, you started in a cooking class to give yourself something to do other than care for your wife. While there, you met someone. You started seeing each other one in a while outside the class. Now you know that you have feelings for her, and she has feelings for you. She hasn't asked as much, but you can tell she wants to make things more permanent, and you do, too.
You still love your first wife, but she doesn't even know you. You still visit her every day, but you need something more. You know your wife wouldn't want you to put your life on hold while she slowly dies. Maybe it's time to move on.
What do you do?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2011 03:41 PM |
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I fail to understand where the dilemma is.
If you were not prepared to "move on" - why did you start seeing her in the first place? When you did, you were already accepting the possibility that something like that might happen. More to the point, if there WAS a moral dilemma lurking somewhere round the corner, you'd end the scenario upon registering the first feelings, either with yourself or the person.
At this stage, there actually is no moral dilemma anymore.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 16, 2011 03:51 PM |
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As long as she lives, my vow would live too. For me it's the classic; whether she could know or not... I would, so in that sense, my educated guess about what she would probably say wouldn't matter.
____________
"Do your own research"
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 16, 2011 04:01 PM |
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An intelligent person has to adopt to new situations, the fact that your wife doesn't even recognise you means that your dead to her (non-existent) though she will never be dead to you  , but moving on even before she actually kicks the bucket, means that she is already dead to you too , for all ytou have left is a breathing stranger with your wives face on it. It's a sad situation, and a mans got to do, what a mans got to do 
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 16, 2011 04:20 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 16:21, 16 Sep 2011.
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Quote:
Quote:
but she hardly recognizes you any more.
Quote:
but moving on even before she actually kicks the bucket, means that she is already dead to you too
Yes, I agree. Like I said...as long as she lived so would my Vow. Btw, I made that Vow in RL, so this is the real deal. It's not a what-if, because one of us IS going to face some version of this.
____________
"Do your own research"
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 16, 2011 04:29 PM |
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I am gripped by the fact that if I was with the love of my life, for so long, I'd stand by her no-matter what, but her forgetting you, is heart piercing .
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 16, 2011 04:32 PM |
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Absolutely true for me too. Having my Princess not know me would be worse than anything Mount Doom could throw at me. That is one wicked disease, although when it comes down to it, <imo>the situation Corribus described is heart-breaking in any unfolding.
____________
"Do your own research"
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 16, 2011 04:46 PM |
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Here's the source of the dilemma, by the way:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AlzheimersCommunity/pat-robertson-alzheimers-makes-divorce/story?id=14526660
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted September 16, 2011 05:10 PM |
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I have already heard horror stories: Elders chanting the nursery rimes they grew up with, for months, before finally death. And as the opening post states that she is already gone, but she can still walk around, she is dead as a person.
I guess I would disregard the social stigma, and realize that my wife is already braindead, and that whatever is left of her is gone.
And hence aquire love interest.
I guess I would view it as visiting my wifes grave after she dies.
I don't see any moral problems with it either, except if there was a medical breaktrough and she was cured.
But then the moral problem is different.
Then I would have 2 wifes, in a society where monogamy is only tolerated, and both of them as well as I are indoctinated to belive that monogamy is the only way.
And how that works it? It don't work out at all. Either both relationships would shatter in a instant, or they would both up in a weird jealous position.
____________
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2011 05:30 PM |
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I don't see the problem, it's probably the most sane thing you could do. especially if you are sure your wife wouldn't be jealous (anyway, if someone is jealous enough to forbid you to hang out with someone else even after a break up or her own death, then she is really crazy)
I don't see it as a treason either. It's not because you start loving someone, that you stop loving another person. love isn't something you can quantify and has to divide between people, and I don't know why people seem to believe that? do parents, the more children they have, the less they love them?  the only moment you really need to be present with your wife is when you are with her. if you can't afford to always be with her, why torture your brain? what does it change if you spend that time with someone else?
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 16, 2011 05:33 PM |
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You would be wrong to assume that there is only one type of love
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2011 06:06 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 18:07, 16 Sep 2011.
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yeah I know, sexual love is bad and love of god is above everything else...
but there might be a difference between love and all the different conceptions of the mind about love. A big one I mean.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 16, 2011 06:21 PM |
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I love my enemies, that doesn't mean I want to scew them nor worship them  .
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2011 07:19 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 19:23, 16 Sep 2011.
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are you sure it's love, or is it just something you say because you feel it is a good thing to say, or because it makes you feel superior?
I don't think many people can honestly claim "I love my enemies" in the same way that they love their mother or their wife. seriously, they are your enemies. it's already hard to just be indifferent towards them...
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 16, 2011 08:12 PM |
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Love might've been an imprudent word, but it is true none-the-less. 
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 16, 2011 08:30 PM |
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Doesn't sound like the individual loves his wife very much if he is willing to start a new relationship while his wife is suffering from a debilitating disease.
If anything, the husband is being selfish and putting his needs above those of his wife.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2011 08:32 PM |
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maybe, but what can he do anyway?
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This thread is pages long: 
