|
|
radox
Known Hero
|
posted September 26, 2010 03:03 PM |
|
Edited by radox at 16:51, 26 Sep 2010.
|
Heroes 6 creatures
Before you start moaning, I just wan to inform you that with these faction line-ups I DO NOT SEEK ANY NEW CREATURES, IMPROVISATION or some other pieces of crap. My dream Heroes 6 creatures would be something like a wrap-up of the most beloved creatures throughout the series. And besides, I think that the idea of "50% new creatures to the series" is a BUNCH OF UTTER CRAP!!! A moon-linked-phoenix? WHAT THE HELL IS THIS IDIOCY?!? No trolls or gremlins??? WTH?!?! Anyway, here's my vison that unfortunately will never be fulfilled:
HAVEN
1.Militia
2.Archer
3.Pikeman
4.Griffin
5.Monk
6.Champion
7.Angel
SYLVAN
1.Pixie
2.Wolf
3.Elf
4.Druid
5.Unicorn
6.Treant
7.Green dragon
ACADEMY
1.Gremlin
2.Marble gargoyle
3.Iron golem
4.Mage
5.Genie
6.Naga
7.Titan
INFERNO
1.Imp
2.Demon
3.Cerberus
4.Succubus
5.Nightmare
6.Balrog
7.Devil
NECROPOLIS
1.Skeleton
2.Zombie
3.Ghost
4.Vampire
5.Lich
6.Wraith
7.Bone Dragon
DUNGEON
1.Kobold
2.Obsidian Gargoyle
3.Evil eye
4.Basilisk
5.Minotaur
6.Medusa
7.Black dragon
STRONGHOLD
1.Goblin
2.Harpy
3.Centaur
4.Troll
5.Ogre
6.Wyvern
7.Cyclops
NEUTRAL 1
1.Dwarf
2.Pirate
3.Satyr
4.Werewolf
5.Mummy
6.Enchanter
7.Hydra
NEUTRAL 2
1. Peasant
2. Nomad
3. Air elemental
4. Fire elemental
5. Water elemental
6. Earth elemental
7. Behemoth
MORE
Phoenix, Megadragon
That's it - the classic 7 levels - no champion/elite/core crap! No boss crap!
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 04:03 PM |
|
|
Quote:
NECROPOLIS
1.Imp
2.Demon
3.Cerberus
4.Succubus
5.Nightmare
6.Balrog
7.Devil
That's Inferno not necropolis and where's the TRUE necropolis?
____________
|
|
Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 04:18 PM |
|
|
|
I, perosnally, hate the use of balrogs. They belong into tolkiens world. It would be like having gandalf as a wizard hero or a "the one ring" artifact^^
|
|
Fool
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 04:19 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Before you start moaning, I just wan to inform you that with these faction line-ups I DO NOT SEEK ANY NEW CREATURES, IMPROVISATION or some other pieces of crap. My dream Heroes 6 creatures would be something like a wrap-up of the most beloved creatures throughout the series. And besides, I think that the idea of "50% new creatures to the series" is a BUNCH OF UTTER CRAP!!! A moon-linked-phoenix? WHAT THE HELL IS THIS IDIOCY?!? No trolls or gremlins??? WTH?!?!
Do you honestly think that the dev team is going to listen to you with that kind of attitude? Calm down first and be reasonable.
Think about this from other peoples' points of view, especially the devs. They were just criticized in H5 for reverting to the "old" Heroes III engine and scrapping the few changes that were well received in Heroes IV. Do you really think that they're going to want to keep things exactly the same and get complaints that they're afraid of innovation and that they're lazy? Because believe me, that will happen if they do that.
And what's so bad about innovation anyway? Do not make cries of "[url=http://www.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuinedFOREVER]RUINED FOREVER[/url]!" just because they decided to add in new creatures and change the mechanics. Variety is the spice of life, after all. Besides, H6 isn't even in alpha stage yet! No one has any idea how the finished product will turn out, or how any of these ideas will turn out, because no one has seen them in practice yet. It's the dev team's job to innovate and come up with new ideas. Otherwise there would be practically no difference between this game and the very first Heroes game, and that would just be dull, don't you agree?
I know that there is something to be said for sticking to tradition, but don't avoid new things like the plague either. Also, please argue about things rationally rather than emotionally -- do you really think anyone is going to want to listen to you or take your points seriously if you're raging and swearing and using dozens of exclamation points? One should always try to take a step back and look at things from multiple points of view.
|
|
radox
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 04:56 PM |
|
|
What about the attitude? I am absolutely sick of the "developers" who pretend to "be listening to the community" but instead don't give a nickel about what we have to say and continue doing their little experiments in every new game just for the sake of it?! Didn't time prove it all? All the stupid experiments in H4 and H5 went wrong and they "went back to the traditional H3 interface"... 
- The fighting heroes in H4? Did they work?
- The roaming creatures in H4? Did it work?
- The initiative system in H5? Did it work?
- The alternate upgrades in H5? Did it work?
Why aren't these so "genial and innovative features" not included in H6? Because they sucked and proved for the 1000th time that experimenting doesn't work in this Game. And why would we think that they are LAZY? If they just did a remake of H3 with new graphic and campaigns we all would be grateful. But no, let's crap on history just to have the fans say we invented something new! Yupiie!!!
|
|
Fool
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 05:37 PM |
|
|
You neglect to mention the many experiments that did work, such as a seventh creature tier, new factions, perks, etc. You're right; those experiments you listed didn't work (in my and your opinion at least; please don't talk like your opinion is fact), and that's why they scrapped everything from H4. If they never experimented like you suggested, we wouldn't have any of those, or other features that improve the gameplay experience overall. Experimenting does work -- it's how everything progresses -- it's just that some experiments prove to be failures. That's in the very nature of experimentation. But if it does fail, you scrap it and move on with your life.
Also, the game isn't even in alpha stage yet. Your complaints may prove to be completely invalid or based on misunderstandings when the first demo comes out. Have a little patience; it's too early to see how anything will work out yet. Your opinion isn't the only one either; while you may be grateful if they made a copy of H3, many others won't and have already expressed that opinion multiple times during H5's development. The developers need to look at all opinions and find the best compromise that will please the majority.
(And honestly, please calm down a little. Violently exploding with anger just makes you look bad and discourages people from listening to you. Trust me, I know from experience)
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 05:58 PM |
|
Edited by Cepheus at 18:00, 26 Sep 2010.
|
I hope you realise your furious demands are entirely subjective - a lot of people think the initiative system and alternate upgrades were the best thing since sliced bread. (On a personal level, I loved the alternates and would've liked them back in H6.) Of course they could take the easy way out, discard any thought of innovation and simply regurgitate Heroes III with shiny new graphics - but you can't in good conscience take a remake and deem it "Heroes VI". A worthwhile new instalment ought to involve at least some evolution as a priority, not repetition. Changing the HoMM formula in a very dramatic way (like Heroes IV) isn't even on their agenda anyway.
It really is very untrue to say they aren't listening to the community: I know this for a fact because I'm going to summarise your angry rant (along with as many other posts around HC as possible) sometime around when the next pivotal announcement is made, and post it straight to them in a community feedback thread which they regularly read.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
|
|
final_boss
Adventuring Hero
The Necropope
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 06:05 PM |
|
|
Quote:
You neglect to mention the many experiments that did work, such as a seventh creature tier, new factions, perks, etc. You're right; those experiments you listed didn't work (in my and your opinion at least; please don't talk like your opinion is fact), and that's why they scrapped everything from H4. If they never experimented like you suggested, we wouldn't have any of those, or other features that improve the gameplay experience overall. Experimenting does work -- it's how everything progresses -- it's just that some experiments prove to be failures. That's in the very nature of experimentation. But if it does fail, you scrap it and move on with your life.
Also, the game isn't even in alpha stage yet. Your complaints may prove to be completely invalid or based on misunderstandings when the first demo comes out. Have a little patience; it's too early to see how anything will work out yet. Your opinion isn't the only one either; while you may be grateful if they made a copy of H3, many others won't and have already expressed that opinion multiple times during H5's development. The developers need to look at all opinions and find the best compromise that will please the majority.
(And honestly, please calm down a little. Violently exploding with anger just makes you look bad and discourages people from listening to you. Trust me, I know from experience)
Those new features didn’t suck, they were bad implemented.
A change is needed, we can`t sit forever in an old HoMM formula and pretend it is made of everlasting perfection. First of all, why do you want a shiny Heroes III clone if the old Heroes III is still there? Go play it, where is the problem?
Black Hole is trying to update the obsolete (face it) HoMM formula, so lots of things must change, evolve, or just disappear.
____________
"They say an end can be a start. Feels like I've been buried yet I'm still alive"
|
|
Kien
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 09:46 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I, perosnally, hate the use of balrogs. They belong into tolkiens world. It would be like having gandalf as a wizard hero or a "the one ring" artifact^^
Well balrog is just the name of a specie of creatures, not a unique characters.  But well maybe you think they are too unique to Tolkien. But really the balrog in LOTR movies is just the most generic big humanoid demon with a special name. Diablo 1-2 uses the name balrog. In D1 it's the most powerful of the 4 variations of the monsters called "megademon", in D2 they are the least powerful.
But back on topic. Wow this is one conservative dude, the topic starter. Come on you can't really want this to just be a remake of H3. I want like 50% new units. Just stay to normal graphics, have as good unit design as in H3, keep some traditional units add/tweak a few features and I'm happy.
I'm still unsure what role heroes should have on the battlefield. To be on safe side I would say keep it to spell casting.
|
|
MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
|
|
posted September 26, 2010 10:49 PM |
|
|
Games in a franchise series MUST evolve, if they do not, you might as well keep playing the old one.
There is a STAGGERING amount of good quality custom maps for Heroes III that are still very much worth playing.
Anybody asking for a remake probably hasn't thought about the results.
You will basically be asking for a graphical update and I personally would find it extremely insulting if they did. (ofcourse you might genuinely just want a graphical update, to each his own I guess.)
I probably would not even tolerate Squaresoft remaking Chrono Trigger with new shiny graphics. (and that is saying something, trust me.)
I for one am completely behind at least 80 to 90 percent of the changes they are implementing (based on current news and info) and on the fence with the rest.
(like only 5 factions, and 7 creatures per faction when the new system tier system would easily allow for expansion of the base 7 roster.)
Almost none of the changes they are implementing I think will badly effect gameplay. (The advanced resources collapsed into Crystal has me on the fence.)
In fact I think many of the changes they are introducing will make the game slicker but not easier and provide enough of the good stuff from the old we love and great innovations that will drive the game forward.
|
|
Valen-Teen
Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
|
|
posted September 27, 2010 12:52 AM |
|
|
All forumers' lineups are of the same type and not different from past Heroes.
It's cool that Black Hole will enter new creatures and factions'll become more differential 
|
|
Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
|
|
posted September 27, 2010 03:33 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Because they sucked and proved for the 1000th time that experimenting doesn't work in this Game.
Okay then.
Drop Inferno, Necropolis, and Academy from your list of factions.
Drop Satyrs, Kobolds, Harpies, and Behemoths from your line-ups.
Put Peasants back in Haven.
Drop Angels and Militia from Haven.
Drop Naga from Academy.
Drop Evil Eye and Basilisk from Dungeon.
Drop Pirate, Werewolf, Enchanter, and Megadragon from your neutral line-ups.
Drop the Campaign.
Everything I've just listed was introduced as an experiment to the series. You take the bad with the good, or you don't get anything at all; so eat your dang vegetables, they're good for you.
I wouldn't mind a re-release of H3. I adored that game, and a re-release would potentially mean that I could play it on my Mac. But there's a stark difference between re-releasing a game that is known to be successful, and trying to pass it off as an entirely new game.
|
|
radox
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 27, 2010 10:27 AM |
|
|
You didn't probably understand me. Heroes 3 is not my favorite game of the series. It just had the best gameplay in my opinion. The best game overall according to me is Heroes 5. I also liked Heroes 4 very much, because it was good in its own way and had some really nice features that weren't into any of the other Heroes games.
The topic I posted is only about the CREATURE LINE-UPS in the game, not about the other aspects to it. Because, let's face it - creatures are the most vital part of any heroes game - that's why I think they should be well-balanced and living up to the spirit of the series! I also think that there MUST be a nice bunch of neutral creatures, not the scrawny 5-6 pieces we had in Heroes 5!
|
|
Mike80D
Famous Hero
Map Maker
|
|
posted September 27, 2010 05:11 PM |
|
|
I have to agree with most people here in that having all of the same creatures & concepts for H6 would be very boring. I want something fresh from a creature & strategy standpoint, while keeping and improving upon the concepts that worked well.
Having a Spider-Queen instead of a Bone Dragon isn't going to break the game. Also, opinions on here vary quite widely, which is evident by the number of people who enjoyed Homm4. To state your opinion in yelling fact mode is rather inaccurate.
Ultimately I'm happy that a new Homm game is FINALLY coming out, and am looking forward to firing up a multiplayer game where I don't know everything that the computer or my opponent has or is going to do.
|
|
blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
|
|
posted September 30, 2010 07:03 PM |
|
|
I dont think spider queen is going to be the replacement for bone dragon, its probably going to be the "flying sphinx" thingy  .
|
|
MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
|
|
posted September 30, 2010 09:51 PM |
|
Edited by MrDragon at 22:40, 30 Sep 2010.
|
Quote:
I dont think spider queen is going to be the replacement for bone dragon, its probably going to be the "flying sphinx" thingy .
Well don't forget, the Necromancers worship an aspect of Asha wich is a spider.
My bet is those "Spider Queens" are called "Avatar of Asha" and is a parallel to Angels who are aspects of Elrath's will.
It to me seems a lot more likely the Spider Queen will be the Champion unit, the Sphinx strikes me merely as a guardian beast/construct and thus a much better Elite flyer fit.
I'm also guessing they will make those a first top-tier caster, which would be an interesting change of pace, we've never had a Tier7/Champion caster before.
Closest we got to interesting top-tier in H5 is the ranged Titan with it's one shot ability and the Goblin punting/eating/wall smashing Cyclops.
The rest was all beefy melee with MAYBE a nice active ability.
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 30, 2010 10:55 PM |
|
|
|
What's the difference with Neutral 1 and Neutral 2, are they towns in themselves?
|
|
radox
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 30, 2010 11:09 PM |
|
|
|
No, they are not towns, just a bunch of creatures with no connection between them that I simply put together because they are of consecutive levels.
|
|
MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
|
|
posted October 01, 2010 07:40 AM |
|
|
But Radox, could you maybe re-arrange them into 3 tiers?
Personally I'm not to keen on your line-up but it is a perfectly fine suggestion regardless of my personal opinion.
But we know it's going to be the Core-Elite-Champion line-up not Tiers 1 to 7.
You possibly might re-think or re-arrange some of your line-ups based on the 3 tier system.
|
|
radox
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 01, 2010 09:41 AM |
|
|
To be honest, I don't think that the new 3-tier system is a bad idea, it may be nice, but the terms "core", "elite" and "champion" suck! Couldn't they just leave it at "level I, level II and level III"?
Anyway, here's what my suggestions would look like in the new system:
HAVEN
Level I - Militia, Archer, Pikeman
Level II - Griffin (or Crusader), Monk, Champion
Level III - Angel
SYLVAN
Level I - Pixie, Wolf, Elf
Level II - Druid, Unicorn, Treant
Level III - Green dragon
ACADEMY
Level I - Gremlin, Marble gargoyle, Iron golem
Level II - Mage, Genie, Naga
Level III - Titan
INFERNO
Level I - Imp, Demon, Cerberus
Level II - Succubus, Nightmare, Balrog (or Incubus)
Level III - Devil
NECROPOLIS
Level I - Skeleton, Zombie, Ghost
Level II - Vampire, Lich, Wraith
Level III - Bone dragon
DUNGEON
Level I - Kobold, Obsidian gargoyle, Evil eye
Level II - Basilisk, Minotaur, Medusa
Level III - Black dragon
STONGHOLD
Level I - Goblin, Harpy, Centaur
Level II - Troll, Ogre, Wyvern
Level III - Cyclops
NEUTRALS
Level I - Peasant, Pirate, Dwarf, Satyr, Nomad
Level II - Werewolf, Air, Fire, Water, Earth elementals, Mummy, Enchanter
Level III - Behemoth, Hydra
Level IV - Megadragon, Phoenix
-> Another drawback of the 3-tier system is that I don't see how units like for example Imps and Cerberi will be "of comparable strength"...
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 1 
