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| Thread: Predictions and Arguments For 4th Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 11 12 13 14 15 ... 20 24 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 21, 2010 01:04 PM |
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I wonder what kinda meltdown it's going to cause among the fans if they indeed ditched Sylvan/Dungeon/Academy for Stronghold.
By this time the orcs should be scattered people, trying to hide at the end of the world and not to engage clearly superior forces. Along with the Necromancers they will make a second dissident not-quite-faction, which will be one too many. I still expect Academy, the representation of the ideological conflict between the wizards makes more sense than anything else (not that the common sense is the modus operandi of the story-writing in this case...).
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 21, 2010 01:12 PM |
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Quote:
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I wonder what kinda meltdown it's going to cause among the fans if they indeed ditched Sylvan/Dungeon/Academy for Stronghold.
By this time the orcs should be scattered people, trying to hide at the end of the world and not to engage clearly superior forces. Along with the Necromancers they will make a second dissident not-quite-faction, which will be one too many. I still expect Academy, the representation of the ideological conflict between the wizards makes more sense than anything else (not that the common sense is the modus operandi of the story-writing in this case...).
Presuming the time-line as written for HV is 100% accurate.
The Necromancer pressence in HVI seems to already deviate SLIGHTLY from the time-line, we never heard about this haven guy and his 5 children, nor about this archangel general figure.
I doubt HV's background lore was written with a prequel in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few changes.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 01:24 PM |
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I think it's weird if Necromancers are fighting for emancipation and acceptance from the Silver Cities yet Academy is not around as a faction. Except if the necro campaign somehow ignores completely about the emancipation stuff.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 21, 2010 02:52 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 14:52, 21 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
I think it's weird if Necromancers are fighting for emancipation and acceptance from the Silver Cities yet Academy is not around as a faction. Except if the necro campaign somehow ignores completely about the emancipation stuff.
Maybe cus there currently are bigger issues, like a demonic invasion and whatever that Angel is cooking up.
Seems like a bad time to start a civil war.
Might be good for an expansion though! 
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 03:33 PM |
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I think it's weird if Necromancers are fighting for emancipation and acceptance from the Silver Cities yet Academy is not around as a faction. Except if the necro campaign somehow ignores completely about the emancipation stuff.
The Rise of Necromancers is only happening about 100 or 150 years after H6. Academy is not "needed" in the storyline, but it would surely be an interesting twist for an add-on campaign 
Based on the storyline, Sylvans would make a lot more sense than Academy, but only IF the new faction is a Faceless-version of the Dungeon.
Little is known about Dwarves. Tbh, even in H5, the dwarven storyline was very nebulous and H6 could be a good time to "fix" this, but somehow I doubt we'll see them in H6-Vanilla.
Orcs have already broken free from the wizards. Also iirc, when H6 is happening, Orcs are moving towards the islands to the east ... luxurious jungle covered islands which are supposed to be Naga territories.
Dragon Knights could make an appearance as their order played a major role until the 3rd eclipse.
My view on chances for the 4th and 5th factions would be :
1. Sylvans as 4th + Faceless Dungeon as 5th. The timeline is rich with events focusing around the Sylvan Elves and the war with Tuidhana's tribe. This combo would, imo, make the most sense.
2. Orcs as 4th + Nagas as 5th. We don't know anything at all about Nagas. Are they extinct in H5 ? If yes, could Orcs have killed them when they were seeking for a new home ?
3. Academy + Dragon Knights OR Nagas. As I said above, Academy doesn't feel "needed" for the storyline as Necromancers aren't rising yet, but their appearance wouldn't be that suprising/disturbing. Though an Academy + Dragon Knights combo would make quite some sense because of the "5 brothers and sisters" twist in the storyline.
4. Dwarves + Dragon Knights OR Nagas. That is imo the less likely to happen because Dwarves haven't played any central role.
There are many questions about Dwarves that still need answers though :
- Why did they close their territory ? Why are they at war with Dark Elves ?
- Why do they hate Haven humans ?
- why did Arkath abandon them ? or rather, why did the Dwarves stop worshipping Arkath ?
5. I doubt a Faceless Dungeon would appear without Sylvan being in game
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 21, 2010 03:55 PM |
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I don't think the Dragon Knights would be a standalone faction, seeing as what we know about them has them come from all walks of life (except the walk of life of the infernal variety) Wasn't Arantir a Dragon Knight? and wasn't Agrael/Realag at some point involved with them as well?
I don't think a "secret order" of elite heroes would be acting as an army.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 04:14 PM |
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The Rise of Necromancers is only happening about 100 or 150 years after H6. Academy is not "needed" in the storyline, but it would surely be an interesting twist for an add-on campaign
On the contrary I think. If Necromancers are already free or become a true faction, then there are less reason for Academy to appear. But Necromancers are not truly a faction in H6 and it's just natural that Academy will maintain a "leash" upon them. I just can't see necro running around loose doing what they want without wizards/academy maintaining control over them even though there are this major threat or something. I'm thinking of the relation between a colony and mother country here. Or maybe religious splinter sect and its main stream religion.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 04:32 PM |
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I don't think the Dragon Knights would be a standalone faction, seeing as what we know about them has them come from all walks of life (except the walk of life of the infernal variety) Wasn't Arantir a Dragon Knight? and wasn't Agrael/Realag at some point involved with them as well?
I don't think a "secret order" of elite heroes would be acting as an army.
Yes, Tieru, Aranthir and Aidan (Godric's brother) were Dragon-Knights. The order was highly involved in stopping demonic invasion and I somehow doubt they didn't have armies at their sides.
It would be like saying that Godric, Raelag, Zehir and Findan did beat Kha-Beleth alone without armies ^^
Quote:
On the contrary I think. If Necromancers are already free or become a true faction, then there are less reason for Academy to appear. But Necromancers are not truly a faction in H6 and it's just natural that Academy will maintain a "leash" upon them. I just can't see necro running around loose doing what they want without wizards/academy maintaining control over them even though there are this major threat or something. I'm thinking of the relation between a colony and mother country here. Or maybe religious splinter sect and its main stream religion.
I did not say Academy shouldn't be there, I only said I don't see them as being necessary for the main plot. We're not following the rise of Necromancers, we're following the story of 2 necromancers, Sveltana and Anastasia.
The split between the 2 factions was bloody and would make for a more interesting storyline than having Academy playing the "mother country" role
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 21, 2010 04:38 PM |
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I doubt HV's background lore was written with a prequel in mind
Think again
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And we are already thinking of a prequel saga that would let you delve into some of the more obscure mysteries of our world.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 05:00 PM |
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We're not following the rise of Necromancers, we're following the story of 2 necromancers, Sveltana and Anastasia.
We don't know yet (or know so little) what things are involved in their stories. They could or could not make the rise of necromancers an important aspect in their stories so don't be too quick to dismiss Academy as not needed. The same applies for other faction as well. Heck, the story writers can throw in all kinds of crazy stuff to justify the insertion of a particular faction.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 21, 2010 06:08 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't think the Dragon Knights would be a standalone faction, seeing as what we know about them has them come from all walks of life (except the walk of life of the infernal variety) Wasn't Arantir a Dragon Knight? and wasn't Agrael/Realag at some point involved with them as well?
I don't think a "secret order" of elite heroes would be acting as an army.
Yes, Tieru, Aranthir and Aidan (Godric's brother) were Dragon-Knights. The order was highly involved in stopping demonic invasion and I somehow doubt they didn't have armies at their sides.
It would be like saying that Godric, Raelag, Zehir and Findan did beat Kha-Beleth alone without armies ^^
Exactly what I was saying, all those heroes that are Dragon Knights are all from different factions, there doesn't seem to be a unified "Dragon Knights" faction as they seem to be an order of heroes belonging to different factions.
I said the Dragon Knights aren't an army, I didn't say the Dragon Knights can't field an army.
There is a difference and there difference here is that they field armies from all factions.
I imagine there are only a dozen to a few hundred dragon knights, an order, not a nation.
Also apparently I was wrong about the "written without a prequel in mind", duly noted and thanks for clarifying that Ceph.
As a follow up (in some lame attempt to save face) I don't think the actual story for this game was written at the time, they might have had a vague idea, the current writers might want to add or tweak where needed.
As much as I hate retcons, sometimes they are justified.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 07:09 PM |
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Heh, the Dragon Knights seems to be like the Grey Warden from Dragon Age. Just saying.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 21, 2010 07:20 PM |
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Creating plot holes, inconsistencies and discrepancies just to accommodate some gameplay element would speak of enormous incompetence at best and I don't think that even Ubisoft's writers - which are yet to prove that they have any talent at all when it comes to HoMM/MMH story-writing - will do something as stupid as tweaking or disregarding the original scenario. The question here is what details are they going to add to the base that is the timeline presented to us with HoMM V.
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FuntimeManchop
Adventuring Hero
Adventure!
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posted November 21, 2010 08:44 PM |
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Will the Frenzied Gnasher return? I'm sure that was in Norse mythology.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted November 21, 2010 09:01 PM |
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Creating plot holes, inconsistencies and discrepancies just to accommodate some gameplay element would speak of enormous incompetence at best and I don't think that even Ubisoft's writers - which are yet to prove that they have any talent at all when it comes to HoMM/MMH story-writing - will do something as stupid as tweaking or disregarding the original scenario. The question here is what details are they going to add to the base that is the timeline presented to us with HoMM V.
Personally, I'd like to see them state that Ashan is another world in the established Might & Magic universe, to reconcile the two continuities. A man can dream, right?
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 21, 2010 09:09 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 21:20, 21 Nov 2010.
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Creating plot holes, inconsistencies and discrepancies just to accommodate some gameplay element would speak of enormous incompetence at best and I don't think that even Ubisoft's writers - which are yet to prove that they have any talent at all when it comes to HoMM/MMH story-writing - will do something as stupid as tweaking or disregarding the original scenario. The question here is what details are they going to add to the base that is the timeline presented to us with HoMM V.
Yeah that, or we accept that fact that man kind has never been able to track the exact events of history to a hundred percent accuracy in the real world either.
Who knows what kind of records and stories were lost when the great library of Alexandria burned down.
Is it really that much of a stretch to have new "uncovered" history revealed, or finding evidence that previous records taken as the absolute truth have been faulty?
IF (and that's a BIG "if") they handle it well, they could improve it.
Again, I would like to say, I HATE RETCONS, but SOMETIMES (very rarely) they are justified.
(Namely when the original was uninspired tripe, not saying that specifically is the case here by the way, but just as an example.)
And HV's lore as established is already pretty flimsy, I think it would be a crime to let the trappings of the existing and rather weak story block off some real potential.
Who knows, maybe the writers this time will come up with characters I can care about, a plot that makes me think and dialog that is actually enjoyable.
One can always hope for the best right?
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted November 21, 2010 09:17 PM |
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I'd love some retcons as well; H4's story being non-canon would be nice. 
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted November 21, 2010 10:42 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 22:43, 21 Nov 2010.
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I go for wood elves. Just a gut-feeling. If not let them be a nutral faction with different creature lineup.
My favorite recipe for a foresty lineup of creatures are always including but not limited to.
Werewolves, Sentient trees (Dendroids) and Elves. Sure unicorns, dragons and faeries are welcome to. Oh and sometimes living swamp gas known as Wisps could be awesome too.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 21, 2010 11:22 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:25, 21 Nov 2010.
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I'd love some retcons as well; H4's story being non-canon would be nice.
Not a chance. And why should it be? Quote:
Yeah that, or we accept that fact that man kind has never been able to track the exact events of history to a hundred percent accuracy in the real world either.
Who knows what kind of records and stories were lost when the great library of Alexandria burned down.
Is it really that much of a stretch to have new "uncovered" history revealed, or finding evidence that previous records taken as the absolute truth have been faulty?
I agree that the "falsified", "misunderstood" or "lost" history could be used to introduce something new, but the continuity in this case is officially announced as The Thuth by the creators of the game world itself, i.e. Ubisoft, and not really extracted from the games as conclusions based on materials (texts, dialogues, cinematics, etc.) from them, so any departure from it will be like the Christian god saying "You know, I didn't really say the things I said and I didn't really do the things I did, because... I changed my mind, OK? Live with it, maggot!" It doesn't work quite well this way and will be more than a cheap excuse. However I doubt they will use such approach - too many people have already complained that Ashan so far is downright boring and uninspired world and making it internally conflicting will be if not the last, at least one of the last nails in its coffin.
If I am to start daydreaming, I'd say that everything regarding Ashan is not what it seems to be like many things in the old M&M universe are very different from what they really are. Like Urgash turning to be U.R.G.A.S.H. - Unimode Reactive Geoforming Asynchronous Synthetic Homunculus ( ) - a specially designed android used by you-know-who to force the Elemental Lords to create the planet known as Ashan and then keep them in line with frequent "demon invasions", which among other things are supposed to test different behaviouristic patterns among the "native" races (which are actually gene-forged). Respectively there is no Asha, but instead a collective figure of the Elemental Lords (dragons) from the time when the planet was still not-exactly-a-planet and U.R.G.A.S.H. initiated stage 1 of the geoforming procedure. And thousands of years after that everyone is living in a grand research lab and among other things unknowingly waiting for the imminent Kreegan invasion from space.
But back in the more real world, Asha and Urgash are just some incredibly pompous iguanas which along with several other are fighting over a copy-pasted fantasy semi-manifacture.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted November 25, 2010 05:02 PM |
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Ok as we going close to the day of revealing the 4th faction
let's summarise all the possibilities pluses and minuses of each faction...
Academy - Mages
background: HoMM-2-3-4-5
pluses: Academy is a Vital part of HoMM series, many Love their Titans, Mages, Genies and even Gargoyle is favoured by some. A faction that relays on magic more then any other, which makes it incredibly interesting to play. Controversy will be regarding keeping "Arabic-Asian" theme or return to the HoMM3 Tower "Wizard-Mages" style.. I personally lean towards HoMM3 version and would Love to see Academy again in Vanilla, not the Expansion..
minuses: I would say the minus will be keeping the HoMM5 style of Academy (which IMHO was BAD exept maybe the look of the Sky-Castle), i HOPE they will return to HoMM3 style or come up with something New
Sylvan - Nature
background: Nature faction was present in all HoMM-1-2-3-4-5
pluses: Will not call it Sylvan (which was more Elf orientated), but Nature alligned faction (all the previous HoMM). In terms of gameplay Nature was always interesting and different.. Fast units, awesome shooters, summoning magic.. So much room to create a Best faction.. There are LOTS of creatures related to Nature, so developers shouldn't find it difficult.. Epic units are Elf , Unicorn, Druid, Phoenix / memorable are Sprite, Centaur(HoMM3), Green Dragon..
minuses: the ONLY possible minus could be adding more Elves! There should be maximum and only two Elves who are Hunter (this is a MUST) and Druid (which can be Elf or not, doesn't really matter as long as there are Druids in game)
Stronghold - Barbarians
background: HoMM-1-2-3-4-5
pluses: as a respect to their Lineage, Stronghold-Barbarians should be present in the game. Many like the fact that they are actually different from all the rest of the Factions. Might Over Magic! This game is called Heroes of MIGHT and Magic.. So why not have a Might Faction???
minuses: even though Stronghold have been there since Ever, a lot of players find it Boring to play without using Magic spells.. King of too simple "Hack and Slash" way.. Another minus is making it an Orc faction in HoMM5, which was upseting..
Dungeon!!!!
backgroung: HoMM-1-2-3-4-5
pluses: The Army led by The Black Dragon itself!!! Faction Beloved or at least Respected by all and every single player!!! Excluding the Black Dragon will be a Genocide to HoMM series!!! Another creatures that truly represent HoMM-Universe are Minotaur ,Hydra ,Medusa!!! (Manticores maybe as well)
minuses: HoMM5 release...Dungeon faction...Dark Elves???..WTF!!!!!!! NO for Dark Elves in Dungeon (well.. at least not so many)...
Fortress
background: HoMM-3
pluses: This faction has Many fans, who were left with NOTHING after HoMM3...Even their unique Creatures are not present anymore...Sad??? Yes of course.. Gnolls, Lizardmen, Gorgons, Basilisks!!! Don't tell me they don't deserve at least to be Neutral units... (Hydras have always been there and Wyverns are the only ones survived)
minuses: I don't see any minuses of having this faction, may be in terms of gameplay, which is fixable, and in the end of the day it's new game, not necessary should have balance issues like in early HoMM3 version!!!
Fortress - Dwarves
backgroung: HoMM-5
pluses: Yes i agree, 6 Dwarves in one Faction is Way too much... But if this faction is Not Dwarf-Based , But rather Norse mythology-Snow related creatures, then it CAN BE Awesome!!!! Huge room for Imagination for a New "North-Faction"...
minuses: If it remains a Dwarf faction with 6 identical Dwarves and the Worst Dragon ever, then forget about it...
Conflux
background: HoMM-3
ok guys, does anyone seriously considering them??? 
Dungeon - Dark Elves
background: HoMM-5
pluses: It's nice idea to have Dark Elves in the game, BUT do not mix them with Dungeon!!! Separate faction will do good, leave two dark elves (maximum three) and add some creatures!!! Here we go another interesting faction.. they can live in Dark Wood for example or something, not necessarily in dungeon..
minuses: Dark Elves..Listen... Leave the Dungeon ALONE!!!!!!
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It is only the dead who have
seen the end of war
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