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maddoctor
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 11:46 AM |
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Quote:
Most likely yes  But it's funny how people can use a non-representative poll and try to make it say "universal" opinions. There's a general consensus towards saying that H6 screens are ugly, but there are a lot of people who, like Clem, just don't give a f*ck about how they look because it's only a minor part of the game for them.
As much as I consider the H6 town screens to be a disgrace to the serie, I don't consider them as a huge part of the game - unlike Daklord and Dark-Whisperer or even Alcibiades Everyone has his/her own approach to the game and for me, town screens are NOT what will make me buy or not the game, but it's the game mechanics, the balance, etc... Aesthetics have rarely been an important factor for me because they are in no way determining the gameplay.
For me, UFO1/2 are the best strategy games ever despite them being ugly, I prefer Doom over Quake or over any current FPS, I also spend more time playing some very interesting flashgames over some of those big computer hits with fancy graphics.
Yes, I understand your point, but there is a difference between a game which has not so pretty or "ugly" graphics overall and a game that has a beautiful graphics (IMHO) overall and...SUDDENLY you see this ugly, ugly thing in the game. It's just and eyesore!
Anyway, I agree that this will not affect the gameplay and the overall atmosphere of the game will be preserved if they just remove the whole thing if they don't have a better version of it.
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 12:14 PM |
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Quote:
But it's funny how people can use a non-representative poll and try to make it say "universal" opinions. There's a general consensus towards saying that H6 screens are ugly, but...
It's funny to see some people snowin' about "unrepresentative polls" whereas admitting that the consensus on the town screen matter is rather general.
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Cleo
Hired Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 12:37 PM |
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Edited by Cleo at 12:47, 23 Jul 2011.
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Quote:
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I'm just saying, for what towns have been in Heroes since the beginning, essentially a place to recruit units, there's no reason to have huge, amazing town screens. How long did you spend in towns? How long did you spend in towns having ENJOYMENT?
What do you expect exactly - someone to answer you that what you think is universally true? See the poll results, the answer is there. People have various reasons for such voting and there is no need to make them comprehensible for you. You are just playing a parrot repeating the "arguments" of Ubihole for this moronic move which have been proven - as usual - to be explanations of people who have little to no understanding regarding what Heroes is about.
To answer your question - I've spent quite a lot of time in the towns even during long games, especially when there wasn't something important to look at on the map. There.
You really don't have to get an attitude, and simply because the majority of people say something means absolutely nothing. I've been playing Heroes since I was 6 years old, and I don't mind the town screens at all. I love this new addition to the series.
Also, to clarify, I was GENUINELY asking why people even care that there isn't completely interactive town-screens when they're unnecessary and fairly uninteresting, even in Heroes 5. Haven was fun to look at in Heroes 5...but once I saw it, that was that. It doesn't matter to ME, that's why I was asking.
You're mad, I'm not, I guess I win.
Hardcore fans will never be happy with anything, and this is just one of the things that's being massively blown out of proportion, when it's not even 1% game-breaking in any facet.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 23, 2011 12:50 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you expect exactly - someone to answer you that what you think is universally true? See the poll results, the answer is there. People have various reasons for such voting and there is no need to make them comprehensible for you. You are just playing a parrot repeating the "arguments" of Ubihole for this moronic move which have been proven - as usual - to be explanations of people who have little to no understanding regarding what Heroes is about.
To answer your question - I've spent quite a lot of time in the towns even during long games, especially when there wasn't something important to look at on the map. There.
You really don't have to get an attitude, and simply because the majority of people say something means absolutely nothing. I've been playing Heroes since I was 6 years old, and I don't mind the town screens at all. I love this new addition to the series.
Also, to clarify, I was GENUINELY asking why people even care that there isn't completely interactive town-screens when they're unnecessary and fairly uninteresting, even in Heroes 5. Haven was fun to look at in Heroes 5...but once I saw it, that was that. It doesn't matter to ME, that's why I was asking.
You're mad, I'm not, I guess I win.
Because it is important for them, because some people care about aesthetics and atmosphere, about the artistic part of the game, and not just game mechanics and gameplay. Just because YOU do not understand it doesn't mean that everybody doesn't undestand it. And also. An the argument that you play heroes from your 6 eyars is invalid, since you do not publish your age in your profile You can be as well as 10 or 30 eyars old.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 01:02 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
But it's funny how people can use a non-representative poll and try to make it say "universal" opinions. There's a general consensus towards saying that H6 screens are ugly, but...
It's funny to see some people snowin' about "unrepresentative polls" whereas admitting that the consensus on the town screen matter is rather general.
Your point ? If you want to use a poll as a statistic tool then you also need to have enough statistic values. 200 voters do in no way express everyone's opinion, yet it's used by everyone on this board as a universal truth when it isn't.
All we have is a gut feeling based on what we read on some boards, but HOW MANY people are actually really bothered by the town screens ? 10% of the fanbase ? 50% ? 70% ? 90% ? Who knows ?
How many will NOT buy the games solely because of the town screens ? Unless you can answer precisely this question, this poll is totally irrelevant ond only shows a trend of what people on THIS forum think, not what EVERYONE thinks.
If I play Heroes it's because it's a strategy game. Nice townscreens won't make me play better or worse as they have no impact on the gameplay itself. Snowty interface on the other hand does impact on the gameplay.
Quote:
Because it is important for them, because some people care about aesthetics and atmosphere, about the artistic part of the game, and not just game mechanics and gameplay. Just because YOU do not understand it doesn't mean that everybody doesn't undestand it. And also. An the argument that you play heroes from your 6 eyars is invalid, since you do not publish your age in your profile You can be as well as 10 or 30 eyars old.
So because Cleo doesn't agree with the majority she's wrong ? WTF is that for a new policy ? Last I knew, everyone was entitled to his opinion, but it seems that anyone who disagrees with the majority is just a worthless a**hole here.
Why would this poll ask for anyone's opinion, if it's only to attack or insult anyone who doesn't agree with the OP's biased opinion ?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 23, 2011 01:12 PM |
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Quote:
So because Cleo doesn't agree with the majority she's wrong ? WTF is that for a new policy?
Frankly, Cleo is allowed to mean whatever she will on the matter, but when the vast majority are upset about the issue - which is the case here, as I think we can all agree - it does make the matter relevant. I think when Cleo says:
Quote:
You really don't have to get an attitude, and simply because the majority of people say something means absolutely nothing.
she's actually very wrong - given that we're talking about whether something is good or bad for the game, I think the general consensus is exactly what matters.
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What will happen now?
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Cleo
Hired Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 01:25 PM |
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Edited by Cleo at 13:27, 23 Jul 2011.
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While I agree that it matters to a lot of hardcore fans, I think it matters to you for the wrong reasons; town screens do nothing to improve the game, only to give you a sense of nostalgia and, well, comfort-ability with the franchise.
Are reviewers really going to care? Newcomers? People who just want to play a good strategy (basically the only good turn-based strategy around anymore)? It's hardcore fans who can't stand to see their game changed a little bit who are doing the crying. It's like a child who breaks his favorite toy, only to get a very similar toy, just as enjoyable, but hates it.
I'm happy that they even have town screens at all, given how unnecessary they are to the actual game-play.
Lol, if you even read my opinion, I'm grateful, because this is way more heated an issue than I would've ever imagined. Ubisoft should probably listen to the fans on this, but if they don't, I think their efforts are better directed towards making new factions and more adventure map depth.
About how long I've been playing Heroes, I was stating that to assert that I'm a very long time fan.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted July 23, 2011 01:35 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 13:35, 23 Jul 2011.
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Not attempting to sound pedagogical here, but I think you are severely underestimating the scale of this by saying it only matters to hardcore fans - which is actually what Ubihole did themselves, it seems. The beta forums are absolutely inundated with complaints about these screens, and several previewers have complained about them already. I realise and agree that strategy comes first in a strategy game, but if art and atmosphere didn't have its place on a pedestal as well then we'd all still be playing on MS-DOS.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 02:03 PM |
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then we'd all still be playing on MS-DOS.
And yet, some of the best strategy games were on MS-DOS or Windows 3.11, so I'm not sure it would really be such a bad thing 
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted July 23, 2011 02:11 PM |
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It may not be a bad thing, and you can play on MS-DOS all you like in my opinion. But good luck finding any more chart-topping blockbusters being released on that platform any time soon. 
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 23, 2011 02:18 PM |
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About how long I've been playing Heroes, I was stating that to assert that I'm a very long time fan.
Tss Tss, you joined 10 days ago the GREATEST HoMM forum and you want us to believe that  
I fully agree with Cepheus here, the atmosphere of a strategy game is as important as a movie music. And the town screen in previous sequels was pure art, people tried to make a new one during 10 years, only one team succeeded one year ago. Just saying how it was complex.
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Era II mods and utilities
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 02:50 PM |
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To anyone who thinks the town windows are "passable" in any way shape or form, please watch the following videos that Shyranis has made!
Look at the image above. Compare it to these videos.
Can you honestly say that the town windows are passable compared to them?
Heroes V Sylvan
Heroes V Academy
Heroes II Sorceress
Heroes III Castle
Heroes III Rampart
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted July 23, 2011 03:06 PM |
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Quote:
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See the poll results, the answer is there.
And again, you seem to think that 193 voters represent an universal opinion
Show me the same poll with a few thousands more voters and I'll agree with you
Not thousands but 500!!! will you agree now my friend???
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted July 23, 2011 03:14 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 15:15, 23 Jul 2011.
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Lol not only "Hard core fans" like the town screen and find them to be a must for this game.
I started playing HoMM fairly late, I was 13 or something when I played Heroes 3 for the first time.
And when I started playing I immediately fell in love with the town screens, as a fan of fantasy these town screens made the whole game feel so alive, and it's entire universe so colorful and interesting.
Now people who know me, knows that I initially didn't care much for the town screens as I think there are more importance issues. (such as the lack of RMG...)
But as I have played the Beta I really think it's more and more important to add real fullscreen and animated town screen to this game. Because it was certainly one of the things that allowed me to fall in love with this franchise all those years ago. Town screens leaves such a strong impression on people, so to really catch the attention of newcomers, townscreen will have to be there, and hopefully from the initial release.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 23, 2011 03:44 PM |
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Quote:
While I agree that it matters to a lot of hardcore fans, I think it matters to you for the wrong reasons; town screens do nothing to improve the game, only to give you a sense of nostalgia and, well, comfort-ability with the franchise.
Are reviewers really going to care? Newcomers? People who just want to play a good strategy (basically the only good turn-based strategy around anymore)? It's hardcore fans who can't stand to see their game changed a little bit who are doing the crying. It's like a child who breaks his favorite toy, only to get a very similar toy, just as enjoyable, but hates it.
I'm happy that they even have town screens at all, given how unnecessary they are to the actual game-play.
Lol, if you even read my opinion, I'm grateful, because this is way more heated an issue than I would've ever imagined. Ubisoft should probably listen to the fans on this, but if they don't, I think their efforts are better directed towards making new factions and more adventure map depth.
About how long I've been playing Heroes, I was stating that to assert that I'm a very long time fan.
The Game feeling is an essential part of the game for me. A graphicly breathtaking game, with good mechanics and game play can end up in the lost pits of time if it does not have Atmosphere, and vice versa, and TS do adds a whole lot to Atmosphere.
Point two. You would be surprised how many ocasional heroes players are scared by the changes Ubisoft has done. We are hardcore fans. Most of us will buy it, and get used to it. It's the new and ocasional players of heroes that need to be persuited to buy the game, not us.
And onemor thing for you and Nelgirith. You asked
Quote:
Also, to clarify, I was GENUINELY asking why people even care that there isn't completely interactive town-screens
And thats whot my post is about, nothing else. Just an explenation why do people care about them. Theaesthetics and Atmosphere.
And from a general point of view. It is a bad piece of work that spoils the rest of the games effect on the Players/customers.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Cleo
Hired Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 04:26 PM |
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Tss Tss, you joined 10 days ago the GREATEST HoMM forum and you want us to believe that
"Do not confuse a great city with a populous one"---Aristotle.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 23, 2011 05:13 PM |
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Quote:
And again, you seem to think that 193 voters represent an universal opinion
Show me the same poll with a few thousands more voters and I'll agree with you, but until then, this poll is as much of an "official fanbase opinion" than the vote that claimed the Rakshasa to be the fans' all-time favourite creature
You'll hardly get it any more official than that. Any Heroes-related forum/topic about Heroes VI worth mentioning has similar polls and discussions and the results are the same - the overwhelming majority agrees that the current town windows suck and to a large extent ruin the atmosphere of the game. I'm yet to find a single evidence that there is some hidden force of town windows supporters which waits patiently in the dark and one day will suddenly rise to crush all the "whiners". If Ubisoft run an official poll on the matter, the results will be the same but they will never do it - which is actually good, considering the level of their last official poll.
Quote:
While I agree that it matters to a lot of hardcore fans...
You won't find many softcore fans of a 16 year old game. Plus - the demonic cabal of the hardcore fans will always find a way to silence the innocents like the newcomers, the reviewers and force the otherwise bona fide devs and publishers to do their bidding. Sorry, either find yourself a good exorcist or surrender.
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 05:17 PM |
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Your point ?
Quite simple, really. If you're smart enough (congratulations!) to understand what the general consensus is anyway, then arguing about "representative" aspect of the poll is just silly nitpicking.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted July 23, 2011 05:33 PM |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: Town screens have nothing to do with gameplay. They are there purely for aesthetic and atmospheric value - and that is what people like about them.
Is the game playable? Yes. Checkers is playable. Backgammon is playable. Hell, to play Risk you don't really need a board, you just need a political map and a highlighter.
For me, what first drew me to the series wasn't the stunning, eye-popping tactics and combat strategy. It wasn't the gorgeous, high-end number crunching or the well-drawn, kind-of-kooky mechanics. It was the artwork, the way the creatures and the town screen and the hero portraits all interacted together, enmeshed.
And as the series went on, the gameplay didn't really change, the mechanics all pretty much stayed the same, the numbers were more or less identical, the strategy didn't change or grow or evolve hardly at all, and the tactics only shifted to accommodate new creatures. Even in H6, the game is essentially the same. But it's missing that "I don't know what". Except that I do know what it's missing. We all know what it's missing.
Sulfur?
No.
Mercury?
No, no.
Artifact descriptions?
You know what, I'll just tell you.
It's missing the town screen. Sure, the game plays okay, the graphics are otherwise stunning, the numbers, while not entirely balanced, are being worked out. The game will be solid, for the most part.
It's that one little detail that, every time you go to build something, you'll think, "Something's not quite right about this."
And the hardcore fans, as you call us, will all hold hands and say, "We told you so."
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted July 23, 2011 05:53 PM |
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@ Aaosaw..
Yes ! Yes! Yeeeeees!!!!! Exactly!!!!!!!!!
That is the whole point!!!
You've described it just excellent!!!
I do not understand how few people can't just realize how Vital are Town Screens to the whole atmosphere of the Game!!
why do Dev's spend time and effort to create animations? unit designs? voices? music? lore? story? etc.. things that do not affect the gameplay in any way...
simple.. to contribute to the Feel the Atmosphere of the Game..
and then what they do? they cut it off just by implimenting this Crap called Town Window!!!!
and when asked, they are stating with "super smart" face that 1 second delay will kill all the feel of the Game????
ARE YOU SERIOUS????
what is that??? a spit into fans face???
excuse me...
honestly i can cope with things i personally dislike...
like choice of Stronghold instead of Academy or Sylvan...
units that i hate and they have nothing to do with mythology like Breeders, Maniacs, Shark warriors etc..
but Town Screens??? NO ! i refuse to agree with that!!!
that is what kills the whole impression of work done by Ubihole so far...
sad 
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