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| Thread: OWS and the We Are The 99% movements |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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kodial79
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How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 07, 2011 07:02 PM |
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The reason why I choose radio stations over TV channels and newspapers is because people from any social class can call and intervene in the show and speak their mind too. I like to hear what other simple people like me have to say about the things that interest me.
though, on some websites, they are dumb as hell. on the site of my internet service providers, most comments are from angry frustrated people who can't argumentate nor speak about anything else than how much they hate Sarkozy. seriously, let's say there's an article about people who died in an accident. most comments won't show empathy and a couple of them will even blame Sarkozy.
So people don't have what it takes to pinpoint and successfully explain what it is they dislike about someone. That doesn't mean they're wrong though. They're feeling it (if I can explain it like that) that Sarkozy's policies could prove catastrophic for France. And through their posts they primally express the rawness of that feeling.
I completely understand that. People are afraid, they are worried and they feel someone beyond their reach is toying with them, scheming against them and worse of all, not giving them the chance to do something about it. And, well, living in Greece, I have come to understand and know for a fact that this fear is very real.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted November 07, 2011 11:58 PM |
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Sarkozy had the balls to try to fix problems which previous presidents preferred to ignore, for political reasons. The next will probably choose to ignore as well, after seeing how unpopular became Sarkozy.
Which will be catastrophic in the long run. "After me, the flood" is the politicians usual behavior anyway.
The americains will certainly laugh when see that 99% of french critics towards Sarkozy are about his 30k euros salary. Which is relatively equal or even less of what an american (and many others) president receive, from direct or indirect sources. Nobody cares that some footballer has 2 millions monthly income, but the president, oh no! How can he?!
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 08, 2011 12:44 AM |
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The americains will certainly laugh when see that 99% of french critics towards Sarkozy are about his 30k euros salary. Which is relatively equal or even less of what an american (and many others) president receive, from direct or indirect sources. Nobody cares that some footballer has 2 millions monthly income, but the president, oh no! How can he?!
Well the difference is that the president is paid out of tax revenues and footballers are not. Not that I think footballers should be making anywhere near 2 million euros yearly, mind you.
Oh and the US president receives far more than 30K euroes a year, not to mention the benefits. Then again, you rarely hear anyone in the US complaining about the president's salary. The average federal employee, sometimes, but the president almost never.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Fauch
Responsible
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posted November 08, 2011 08:55 AM |
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french people don't seem to see further than the amount of money on their paycheck at the end of the month.
Sarkozy has balls? maybe he just took the most advantageous direction for himself. from what I understand, that's the private banks who rule the game.
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del_diablo
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Manifest
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posted November 08, 2011 05:29 PM |
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french people don't seem to see further than the amount of money on their paycheck at the end of the month.
If Americans had seen further than their monthly paycheck, they would have razed the country down to the ground perhaps 1920 some time.
Norway would have razed down the country to the ground some time during the cold war.
Take any nation, you can make such a example.
Only a small minority sees further than their own paycheck for the month, and its only on a few special issues.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted November 18, 2011 03:03 AM |
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 18, 2011 01:11 PM |
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kodial79
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Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 18, 2011 01:38 PM |
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Peace officers?! You can't be se-- Oh, it's Elodin. Nevermind...
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Corribus
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posted November 18, 2011 03:10 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 15:11, 18 Nov 2011.
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@Kodial: If you have nothing constructive to post, I'd prefer if you didn't post at all. Thanks.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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kodial79
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How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 18, 2011 03:33 PM |
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Sorry, thought I'd humor him. Well, he was looking for such a reaction too.
But to make it constructive and be properly coerced into his attempt for an argument: I don't think the OWS Protesters would attack police officers out of their own and un-provoked. American protesters don't got that in them, they're too... moderate, unlike what you may think of them.
There's two possible cases here, one is that cops tried to break the protest using force and protesters responded, two is that undercover cops posing as protesters themselves attacked the uhh, peace officers so to instigate a violent incident in the otherwise peaceful demonstration.
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Elodin
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posted November 24, 2011 12:31 AM |
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The anti-capitalist OWS "protesters" have been called upon to "occupy" retailers on Black Friday. It will be interesting to see if any of them get pushed down and run over in the stampede that follows the opening of the doors.
Clicky
Also, the Marxist protests are costing taxpayers millions of dollars.
Clicky
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TheBaron
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dreamer of dreams
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posted November 24, 2011 12:46 AM |
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As someone who has been participating on-site in the Occupy protests for the last 35 days, I can assure you that your broad-brush labelling of the 'protesters' is completely absurd. That you call people who are speaking for the assertion of their (and your) constitutional rights 'Marxists', highlights the fact that your comments are based on ignorance, prejudice and a habit of only believing the spurious comments of antagonistic pundits.
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friendofgunnar
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posted November 24, 2011 07:48 AM |
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I've really come to despise this whole movement. It seems to be all the left's most naive and clueless elements made manifest in a smelly contagious mess. If you're going to make noise and obstruct society you should have a plan of action that hinges on a specific change in government.
One of the main purposes of public protests in democracies is to either promote a cause or to get the public to begin a process of self-reflection. I've seen none of that here. If there is a cause then they've done a dismal job of promoting it, in which case my scorn remains intact.
I think I dislike them most though for their aversion to the leadership principle. Humanity naturally organizes itself into power structures and their disdain of this reality shows me a shocking level of naivete.
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TheBaron
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posted November 24, 2011 10:21 AM |
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As does your obvious disinterest in the reams of research supporting such structures.
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del_diablo
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posted November 24, 2011 11:46 AM |
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I fail to see how the Occupy movement is any different from the Civil Rights protest or the Sufferage movement.
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TheBaron
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dreamer of dreams
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posted November 24, 2011 12:19 PM |
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Then surely that's not a bad thing? Both the Suffrage and the Civil Rights movements were reasonably effective in creating a more equitable society.
My feeling of Occupy is that it is meta-political - it aims to analyse the systems and institutions surrounding our politics. These Occupations are re-establishing a forum for debate that we should have always had but have lost somewhere along the line. They highlight how, at this point in our societies, there is no public space available for people to build communities and to discuss politics in a way that is not framed and constrained by the existing political discourse. For the first time, perhaps ever, people are meeting and discussing their ideas - which are not always aligned - that concern how our systems of governance are constructed, and honestly asking if they are good, should they be changed, can they be changed and how they can be changed. Prior to this it seems that the discussion of politics has always been constrained by the particular 'ism' of the time and place, as well as by the social structures and institutions which control and educate those discussing. The internet has changed this substantially.
In the past, major dissatisfaction from the people has generally resulted in armed conflict or revolution. What's different about this movement is that people are communicating rapidly around the world and are agreeing that there are better, more positive ways forward that do not need violence. It shows that very large amounts of people can be organised, live together in reasonable harmony and let everyone's voice be heard without top-down or hierarchical structures. Being leaderless does not mean that people can not exhibit leadership qualities. One person doesn't have to give an order in order for the movement to order itself as one.
It galvanises people when; in trying to promote the concepts of civil rights, social justice, equity and non-violence, authorities respond with excessive force and horrifying displays of brutality - further highlighting the need for reflection and change. The vast majority of these people are not interested in a 'revolution' in the traditional sense of the word, but are simply interested in modifying the structures that are currently letting them down. I have seen and felt the impunity and the arbitrary nature which politicians will wield to crush these people that irritate them, and that might be slightly more acceptable if they at least followed the rule-books which they were elected to uphold. The rules spoken of here are The Law, the constitution and the bill of rights, and these should always trump the laws of local governance and petty tyrants.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted November 24, 2011 12:38 PM |
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I wouldn't mind a hierarchical society where people know their place with clarity and guidance. What we have at the moment is an illusion; please don't call it democracy. People no longer have to be told to where their place is, they just 'fall in line', and feed their 'betters', the so called 1%. People no longer even know their own rights, even if they did the government has no issue with violating human rights for the sake of "safety" e.g: police searches, you don't comply you go to jail. In the end I believe democracy is just a joke to keep the plebs docile and make them think they have any power.
All the initial secrecy is just delaying the inevitable, which is all one can do.
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del_diablo
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posted November 24, 2011 09:57 PM |
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Then surely that's not a bad thing? Both the Suffrage and the Civil Rights movements were reasonably effective in creating a more equitable society.
Thats more or less what I mean: Its a good thing it like those other 2 protests.
Neither of them had any clear goals either, it was just "Give us more rights!", which somehow ended up on a result.
And Occupy is the same, and hopefully they will also achive results.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 24, 2011 10:10 PM |
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Neither of them had any clear goals either, it was just "Give us more rights!", which somehow ended up on a result.
And Occupy is the same, and hopefully they will also achive results.
Are you actually serious? They have absolutely NOTHING in common. ZERO.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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gnomes2169
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posted November 24, 2011 10:25 PM |
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The occupy movement is about changing economics, which is purely based on numbers. Civil rights movements have been just about that, civil rights. They changed a social structure, which is rather easy since that happens subconsciously, they are merely actively changing it.
Changing an economic system really doesn't happen, for the most part because it doesn't generally have an opinion that can be swayed through public support. The most effective change comes in governmental economic mandates, which protests of less than 10% of the population doesn't change at all. In fact, protests that disrupt disrupt the market system only cause more harm than good.
For an economic change, you will need to change your government itself, and that generally leads to a new country, social order, etc. Changeing the opinions of others helps usher in this transition, but cannot causee it.
So no, nothing like the civil rights movements. Not in the slightest.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
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