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Endbringer
Adventuring Hero
Devil's Bane
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posted October 11, 2012 10:57 AM |
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@Avirosb
Only real women wear metal corsets.
@Dave_Jame
Nice image. Still not very intimidating  Just plain cute. Or should I say she's "Kawaii", since she's an Anime character 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 11, 2012 11:24 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:24, 11 Oct 2012.
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Quote:
So I appreciated Nival's efforts to make cutscenes, even if they lacked moving mouths in the beginning and are a riddled with spell effects and Heroes VI cleary improved here too.
I have to disagree here. Heroes 2 and 3 had mission briefings, something I found befitting a turn-based wargame. They're mostly straight to the point with some personality added for good measure.
Heroes 3 also had a mission synopsis and the in-game text didn't bother me. Either I care about a story enough to read it (the ambient music helps) or I just click them away and go on with the mission.
Cutscenes on the other hand, can help ruin immersion as easy as they can build it.
H5's script may have sounded good ( or at least non-offensive) on paper, but once they got actual people to voice their lines it all fell flat.
There are also the potential pitfalls that goes with voice acting: Poor casting & direction.
Kha-Beleth sounded believably sinister in the demo version, in the finished version he had this run-of-the-mill guttural voice going on.
You say H6 has improved on the writing, but I've yet to find any of its cutscenes on YouTube so I can't comment on that.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 11:55 AM |
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Quote:
Ooops.. thanks War and sorry Endbringer
The avatar thing confused me.. all will be edited
But I dare you insult Fiona :-P... Take this
emo haircut. that says it all...
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samir
Hired Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 11:59 AM |
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Edited by samir at 12:00, 11 Oct 2012.
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so the makers of homm 5 and 6 said that the previous homm series are immature and chaotic?
Let me tell you this, the towns may not have made sense storywise they did players wise, the games were much more fun, much better in replayablity and the list goes on and on, in the last two parts they focus too much on the story instead of the other importante things.
I want them to drop the entire ashan story and begin anew with a totally new world without dragon gods, without only beautiful females and without stolen items from 10.000 other games like warhammer and warcraft.
EDIT: or even better, create two homm games, one with the ashan story and one that reminds the hardcore homm 2 and 3 fans of good old times with chaotic but playable towns.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 11, 2012 12:11 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:13, 11 Oct 2012.
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Well, I think that some of you can agree, that Heroes III has a special place in each fans heart, and as such, like in my case, I turn a blind eye on it's plot shortcomings. It will be ,,The Best'' plot line in Heroes franchise, because it has a big ,,nostalgia'' thing attached to it. Also, most of us were a lot younger in those days. I'm not saying we were stupid then, rather that we didn't have so many fantasy plots and settings behind us. The most basic plot line in times of our youth, was giving us a lot more fun, then today, where we say "bah...not another cliche!" almost everytime. So I think that analyzing it is a good thing, but giving it too much of a critic is not such a good idea...
And I won't change my opinion on Heroes VI campaign. It's plot had potential, but how it was presented was the most idiotic decision that the devs have made for this game...
Also, as a spoiled fan, I can imagine a Heroes game without dragons, not only because I'm crazy for them, but also because I don't see a better, more suited unit/monster (you name it) for a fantasy setting. How cliche is that!
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 12:21 PM |
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Quote:
Well, I think that some of you can agree, that Heroes III has a special place in each fans heart, and as such, like in my case, I turn a blind eye on it's plot shortcomings. It will be ,,The Best'' plot line in Heroes franchise, because it has a big ,,nostalgia'' thing attached to it. Also, most of us were a lot younger in those days. I'm not saying we were stupid then, rather that we didn't have so many fantasy plots and settings behind us. The most basic plot line in times of our youth, was giving us a lot more fun, then today, where we say "bah...not another cliche!" almost everytime. So I think that analyzing it is a good thing, but giving it too much of a critic is not such a good idea...
And I won't change my opinion on Heroes VI campaign. It's plot had potential, but how it was presented was the most idiotic decision that the devs have made for this game...
Also, as a spoiled fan, I can imagine a Heroes game without dragons, not only because I'm crazy for them, but also because I don't see a better, more suited unit/monster (you name it) for a fantasy setting. How cliche is that!
agreed! i was a heroes III fan too and i was way younger when i used to play and i actually didn't give a d@mn about the plot. it's 80% about nostalgia. also in heroes VI the plot seems fine so does the voice acting and the way the characters evolve.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 11, 2012 12:28 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 12:29, 11 Oct 2012.
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I for one consider Heroes III to be (still) the best existing Heroes in general but story-wise I find Heroes IV (the original one, not the expansions) to be the peak of the series. Still, Shadow of Death comes right after that.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted October 11, 2012 12:52 PM |
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Quote:
so the makers of homm 5 and 6 said that the previous homm series are immature and chaotic?
Let me tell you this, the towns may not have made sense storywise they did players wise, the games were much more fun, much better in replayablity and the list goes on and on, in the last two parts they focus too much on the story instead of the other importante things.
I want them to drop the entire ashan story and begin anew with a totally new world without dragon gods, without only beautiful females and without stolen items from 10.000 other games like warhammer and warcraft.
EDIT: or even better, create two homm games, one with the ashan story and one that reminds the hardcore homm 2 and 3 fans of good old times with chaotic but playable towns.
Oh my Chaos I hate when newcomers just start preaching whitout the basic informations about the topic.
Point one: The old univers was not original. It was based on D&D, Ever wonderd why it had beholders ot gorgons as it had?
Point two: Nobady said that the Towns/games were chaotic, but the story and background was. Wich it was freaking messy as hell.
Point three: It was not the makers, it were the brand owners and their team who tried to tell people like you, who actually have no clue what the original story was, why it was better to start a new world of their own and not stick to thy abominational hybred left behind 3DO with noone that could help them. Lern to make difference between Developer (Nival, BH, Limbic) and brand owner (Ubisoft).
Point four: One more time I will hear from somebody how Wacraft is original I will explod mentaly. Yes Nival took a lot of inspiration from Warhammer but that does not mean that they took inspiration from Warcraft. Warcraft and Blizard are the Main copycat i****s around who kill the worlds knowladge of fantasy and imagination with their gnereci stuff. Also, it was not Ubisoft who initially copied WH style but the developer Nival with their liberal approach to the game. Ubi now tries to introduce their own style, and I would like to see how Heroes VI haven is similar to the Humans of warcraft.
RAGE......
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 11, 2012 03:09 PM |
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I still remember the shock when I found out (I began my adventure with the franchise from Heroes 3), that the universe is actually sci-fi style not fantasy (D&D styled fantasy is just one aspect of it), and that races like Kreegans are actually aliens from other planet etc 
Also Dave_Jame I understand your rage for the mainstream-ingness of Warcraft and that some may not like it for it's influence on other fantasy games/books/movies, but still I find the whole Warcraft lore one of the most interesting and well built and maintained (what I mean is, that Blizzard devs are quite consistent about it), even if it rips off from many other works (and who doesn't ;P). Also I really like the role that Dragons play in games like WoW, how they interact with other races (I hate it in fantasy when dragons are made into another mindless kill-only monsters).
But Heroes franchise is distinctive and should stay that way, so no Warcraft-like humans...
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 11, 2012 04:23 PM |
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Geez, so many words and so little knowledge.
@Dave_Jame
Quote:
I will bring up a little bit of an old age argument about just one character from the Enroth game, The Lich Ethric the mad. Who was this character, when did he die? And how come if the games were developed in the spam of 5 years did they not manage to make a single character without some basic questions about him beeing uneasy to understand.
Just examples from the game texts
MaM VI: Ethirc is depicted as beeing the first Lich, His toomb beeing build an entire generation back.
Heroes III SoD: You encounter Ethirc as a warlock, on the side of the warlocks Hunting his former student Sandro. (We can see a paraler to Danse Marcarb)
This would all be OK. Many people noted that there could be two Ethrics. But How big of a chance would be, that there are tow characters of the same name, both connected to Liches.
But then the MaM VII comes and lets you find the staff of an Ethric, The first Lich Ethric. So how did a staff of an Enrothian Grand Lich got to Antagarich? Well, it could be left behind when he got illed by his former student.
So we have one character who is described to Live in one world, die in another one, be buried back in the first one, who is the first lich, who is described as a sourcerr and a Necromancer and aperantly has something against his students following the necromancer path.
To be short They did not think about this much. They just created a character and thought it was cool, and it would be cool to reuse it, without considering if its story would be consisten or logical. Ubi tries to aviod this. There are some small problems but not as big as NWC's free policy had. (next topic would be Minotaurs, want to start it?)
First off, Sandro was student of sorcerer and later lich Ethric the Mad. You have this written in Sandro biography in H3.
Ethric died during MM6 which takes place in year 1165 After Silence. MM7 starts in year 1169 AS, so there is no wonder that some loot from Ethric's Tomb could ended on Antagarich.
Now for the SoD itself. Sandro always was a lich - back to H1 (25 years before H2) and H2 (10 years before H3 and MM6). He used illusion for deception and to cheat wizards from Bracada.
Next, Ethric from SoD was a mage from Bracada (it is stated in Gem campaign), who was against necromancy - something opposite to Ethric the Mad philosophy. In Rise of the Necromancer the same Ethric from Bracada was described as a warlock - someone opposite to mages from Bracada.
Now, from where this mess started? After AB main person who know much about HoMM lore departed from NWC, so there was no one, who ever know, who is who or what has happened in previous games. So SoD creators just took some familiar names and created new stories for them. They probably wanted to introduce Ethric from MM6 but ended messing so much in his story, that this character can't be the same lich as in MM6.
This can happen to Ashan too - if from any reason Marzhin would leave, Erwan probably never will know, what has happened in previous games, even if he has his "bible" to help.
@Shard of Truth
Quote:
There are not any worse than the stories of King's Bounty or Heroes II-III (Heroes I didn't has a story, just a motivation), I give you that they're trying too hard sometimes but other than that they're pretty much the same thing.
- most of the Armageddon's Blade stuff is really tied forcefully with the Heroes Chronicles afterwards (Mutare, Sword of Frost, etc.)
- And what is it about the Ancients? Even when directly included in the World Tree und Fiery Moon it's a giant mess.
- The same is true for the Shadow of Death campaigns, which are essentially of the same importance as the Price of Loyality campaigns but somehow weaved together in the most fan fiction manner I can imagine and even then not reflected/foreshadowed in Might and Magic VII in the slightest (which is a problem for all Heroes games and their RPG counterparts).
1. Actually H2 story, even if it is simple tale about war between good and bad brother, is a good campaign - you can choose your lord, betray or not him, do optional missions, choose who to help and which side should win.
HV story is plain and simple form point A to point B with lots of "casts random spell" dialogues.
It is not about how complicated the story is - it is about how it was shown. And HV failed this.
2. Heroes Chronicles used stuff from AB to tell stories about Antagarich. AB wasn't created with mind for HC. Actually AB was created as a bridge between MM and HoMM games but this was cut after Forge cancellation.
3DO wanted to milk H3, that is why Heroes Chronicles were created.
3. There aren't Ancients in HC. In HC you have Ancestors, barbarian gods.
4. Price of Loyalty campaigns were created not by NWC but by Cyberlore and their story not really fit to HoMM lore. SoD was created as explanation what has happened between H2 and H3 and which events started RoE campaign.
@Dave_Jame
Quote:
Point one: The old univers was not original. It was based on D&D, Ever wonderd why it had beholders ot gorgons as it had?
Point two: Nobady said that the Towns/games were chaotic, but the story and background was. Wich it was freaking messy as hell.
Point three: It was not the makers, it were the brand owners and their team who tried to tell people like you, who actually have no clue what the original story was, why it was better to start a new world of their own and not stick to thy abominational hybred left behind 3DO with noone that could help them. Lern to make difference between Developer (Nival, BH, Limbic) and brand owner (Ubisoft).
Point four: One more time I will hear from somebody how Wacreaft is original I will expolad mentaly. Yes Nival took a lot of inspiration from Warhammer but that does not mean that it took inspiration from Warcraft. Warcraft and Blizard are the Main copycat i****s around who kill the worlds knowladge of fantasy and imagination with their gereci c***. Also, it was not Ubisoft who initially copied WH style but the developer Nival with their liberal approach to the game. Ubi now tries to introduce their own style, and I would like to see how Heroes VI haven is similar to the Humans of warcraft.
1. NWC universe was original. True, it has a lot influence from D&D but at least all concept were introduced in some different ways. There aren't any beholders in HoMM games - you have Evil Eyes which were created by crazy warlock, who also created minotaurs.
We have also Dark Elves but they are not backstabbing cave dwellers, ruled by women, as some other Dark Elves in D&D or in Ashan. You had Dark Elves, who are merchants and use economic and alliances to dominate all of their continent. And they are not evil.
2. Not really - there are some points which are meesed but overall story is quite simple. For first 5 MM games it is story about Corak and Sheltem. For HoMM games it is about Ironfist dynasty (Catheriene is Ironfist as she married Roland). For MM6-9 games it is story about Ancients-Kreegan war. The hard point is that sometimes stories from MM6-9 and HoMM2-4 games are connected and that is all.
You have the same thing in Ashan - Clash of Heroes and Dark Messiah are connected to HV, Duel of Champions, HoMM Online and Raiders are connected to HVI. And HVI is connected to HV (of course) but also Clash of Heroes.
3. It wasn't about starting new story - that is OK, as we have new planets/continents in previous HoMM/MM games. It was saying that old universe and previous games didn't exist (not by words but that was idea of introducing Ashan mythology). Now, with introduction of Void and legacy heroes, Ubisoft seems to understand, that this was a mistake and created backdoor... if they will needed sometime in future.
4. "If Blizzard can copy Warhammer and Warhammer 40K, why can't we do that the same?"
As we saw, Ubisoft is not Blizzard and can't do this with same end result. And for Blizzard - WoW has showed how much they care about their own lore from Warcraft games. P
Sorry for so long and sometimes messy post but few things were needed to explain.
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samir
Hired Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 05:00 PM |
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Edited by samir at 17:05, 11 Oct 2012.
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First of all, I never said I like warcraft, they just stole from warcraft or that other game like warcraft I don't even want to remember the name from. (wow/warhammer)
Also dislike D&D into a game, but that is pretty much hopeless cuz they have so many concepts of fantasy around.
I just don't like dragons and elementals ,and the entire story and unit sets of ashan are about the overused elementals and dragons, while in homm3 we didn't have to care about which elemental took which kind of unit group or town... much better that way.
And you said homm3 took everything from D&D? only gorgon and the evil eyes you mean, cuz evil eyes are also in the upcomming expansion.
All other monsters are from mythology and other stories, not from dugeons and daargons.
I know you are a fanboy of ashan (pretty much sure) but some people just dislike elemental dragons and that kind of overused bull, they want homm to turn to its original roots and have some less story,more gameplay and random towns instead of towns full of dwarves, orcs and sexy lady elves.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 05:29 PM |
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There's really nothing bad in making towns thematically correct rather then a chaotic mess of creatures taken from different franchises (HoMM3 dungeon, anyone?)
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 11, 2012 05:34 PM |
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H3 dungeon was awesome, indisputable fact
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 11, 2012 05:39 PM |
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Quote:
There's really nothing bad in making towns thematically correct rather then a chaotic mess of creatures taken from different franchises (HoMM3 dungeon, anyone?)
Quote:
H3 dungeon was awesome, indisputable fact
I fail to see how one contradicts the other.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 11, 2012 05:54 PM |
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Chaotic mess implies negativity.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 11, 2012 05:58 PM |
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Quote:
Chaotic mess implies negativity.
No, it doesn't. There are plenty things that can be described as Awesome Chaotic messes. My room for example.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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samir
Hired Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 06:53 PM |
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Edited by samir at 18:54, 11 Oct 2012.
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Quote:
There's really nothing bad in making towns thematically correct rather then a chaotic mess of creatures taken from different franchises (HoMM3 dungeon, anyone?)
Like giving the underground town 3 overused evil sexy elf units directly taken from dungeons and warhammer isn't a mess the least.
And most of the creatures were from greek mythology, except for beholders, but they suit the underground theme more than some sexy chicks, who would care if they are sexy? Its dark and underground... so doesn't make sense, it would make sense to give troglodytes to this town, but because they need sexy female units in every town they used sm-mistressses
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 06:59 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
There's really nothing bad in making towns thematically correct rather then a chaotic mess of creatures taken from different franchises (HoMM3 dungeon, anyone?)
Like giving the underground town 3 overused evil sexy elf units directly taken from dungeons and warhammer isn't a mess the least.
And most of the creatures were from greek mythology, except for beholders, but they suit the underground theme more than some sexy chicks, who would care if they are sexy? Its dark and underground... so doesn't make sense, it would make sense to give troglodytes to this town, but because they need sexy female units in every town they used sm-mistressses
lol they were not that sexy and what's wrong with female units and greek mythology?
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samir
Hired Hero
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posted October 11, 2012 07:03 PM |
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Edited by samir at 19:08, 11 Oct 2012.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There's really nothing bad in making towns thematically correct rather then a chaotic mess of creatures taken from different franchises (HoMM3 dungeon, anyone?)
Like giving the underground town 3 overused evil sexy elf units directly taken from dungeons and warhammer isn't a mess the least.
And most of the creatures were from greek mythology, except for beholders, but they suit the underground theme more than some sexy chicks, who would care if they are sexy? Its dark and underground... so doesn't make sense, it would make sense to give troglodytes to this town, but because they need sexy female units in every town they used sm-mistressses
lol they were not that sexy and what's wrong with female units and greek mythology?
1. I love greek mytholgoy I was defending it.
2. Sexy units are cool (succubus/naga other creatures that makes sense being sexy) but if used in every single town (they even tried to make centaurs and harpies a little bit sexy) it starts to bore me, it starts to annoy me and its gets pathetic, like only non-mature sexistic males play this game... I would like have seen the harpy and centaur more monstrous, the naga/medusa should be ugly, really dislike that unit, and two water based sexies in one town is too much, also now the dungeon town (and underground sunless town) also gets its freaking sexy woman in it... i've already seen the sexy mages and genies coming in and whats next? sexy dwarves and sexy werewolves?
What I mean to say is; why most female units always are half naked, snowty or pretty? I rather see some good cool female units, who are dressed properly and have some nice abilities instead of 10 succubi like units that make the succubus rather useless.
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Verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 11, 2012 07:07 PM |
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@Davejames:
Reading comprehension man. I'm criticizing the shortcomings in the story, not the game.
You basically go defensive about me attacking the games in your quote but I didn't do that. So there's not much to say back to you.
Quote:
There are not any worse than the stories of King's Bounty or Heroes II-III (Heroes I didn't has a story, just a motivation), I give you that they're trying too hard sometimes but other than that they're pretty much the same thing.
any random bio or story text in Heroes III or IV is better than Heroes V and VI stories combined. On the other hand I don't think NWC ever bragged in advertising about concocting this super epic plot or immersive universe.
When Erwin and Ubisoft then goes advertising a universe that “feels strong and it feels real” shouldn't they follow through?
Quote:
Link To an interview with Julien "Marzhin" Pirou, where he said the following:
No that isn't an NWC source, it's a bunch of speculation. in fact Marzhin is on Ubisoft's payroll if I'm not totally mistaken.
@Avonu:
man you said it. Erwin just nods and smiles in the Q&A videos. I doubt he even knows what he wrote in one game or the other.
Ashan is what I imagine some blind businessman would think a fictional universe should be to appeal to demographics, like a corporation trying to write a plot. "Hey everyone likes dragons. we gotta base everything on dragons."
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