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| Thread: Game Of Thrones Discussion ~ *OURS* is the fury |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 24 25 26 27 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 21, 2019 05:01 PM |
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Jeyne Poole?
Gene pool?
Wonder what their place is in all this? 
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 21, 2019 05:13 PM |
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blob2 said:
A shame people don't really appreciate it cus their busy hating on the series:
Who are you even talking about? Youtube comments? Literally almost every opinion I've heard always gives credit to how well the episodes look and have great shots. Its all about separating the writing from the visuals. A lot of people noticed the show dipped in quality a few seasons back and found the writing as the reason why. Maybe not everyone gets invested in the story, and only tune in for cool scenes. If thats the case, then this show is a homerun cause everything throughout the series looks and sounds awesome. But there is too much smoke for no fire. The writing tanked a long time ago for the most part. Anyone who read even just the first book would know how on point the scripts were back in the first few seasons. And you even said yourself that you feel 'suspiciously empty' after seeing the show end. Is it suspicious or is it right in line with what a lot of people (haters?) have been saying for at least this past season?
Personally, I'm not upset with the outcome on paper. Its the rushed ending we got that pisses me off. She turned into the Mad queen wway too fast and there weren't enough character moments with her to show us that she was turning. There should have been at least one more season and this one should have ended with Dany having the throne. A whole season devoted to her in power with Dorne and the Iron islands supporting her would have been sick. Instead the series ends with a bad memory of it. Gonna go rewatch seasons 1-5 now so I can leave on a good note 
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 21, 2019 05:42 PM |
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Quote:
Anyone who read even just the first book would know how on point the scripts were back in the first few seasons.
The script - to an extent, the characters and the overall presentation - not so much. One of the reasons I dropped the show... I think around the point where Sean Bean got killed for the 20th time or so, was because it felt a bit too "in your face" compared to the books. While you have even more sex scenes and all sorts of scandalous stuff in the novel, the TV adaptation seemed to emphasize on them more than enough specifically to draw attention and show that it's a different breed of mainstream product, not so much because they were needed for narrative purposes. Quite some subtlety seemed to be sacrificed for the sake of the "sex, shock and awe" formula, which is pretty overused.
And also Cersei looked so much smarter and calmer than her depiction in the books than you could no longer perceive her as an escaped Freudian patient with maniacal lust for power.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted May 21, 2019 06:33 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 18:40, 21 May 2019.
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It's impossible to fully adapt a book to lets say, a tv show. Some sacrifices need to be made.
Here's what I think: They got raw guidlines from Martin. They needed to fill in all that was in-between. You also need to take into account what HBO says: for instance "we will give you the budget, but you'll need to wrap this up in two seasons". I don't know who's decision it was, but seems it was a mistake. Yet they needed to adapt the script accordingly. Easy to say when so many fans "what would I do instead" tirades contradict with each other in so many ways. Everyone is a better writer it seems.
In effect we did get an amusing, yet devoid (as most people point out) of the originals character final. Tough luck, sucks to be us.
@The_Green_Drag
No, I didn't see even one comment that would praise anything related to the aesthetic side of things. If you do have examples, please provide me with such. And I can't "hate" on a show which I enjoyed, it would be silly. You also seem to point out the reason why so many people dislike the ending, yourself included: because your/their dearest Dany wasn't queen at the end. Throught GoT she was my favourite character in the books/show and I rooted for her, yet I don't whine that she ended badly.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 21, 2019 07:11 PM |
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I will be an example, obviously everything about this final season of show from a production standpoint is as exemplary as it usually was (and sometimes better) from direction, to acting, to special effects, albeit script and pacing which was poor cheers lol
if I will criticise any production aspect it would only be the battle which I could not see but that is basically a matter of taste, in fact second last episode had perhaps best direction of the whole show although several scenes were a bit of a disaster porn and did not serve the plot lol
to be fair do not be unrealistic, nobody will pause and say how great was the dragon special effect or whatnot because it is a busted flush, the substance and the nuance must be strong you cannot just let the dog eat the homework and rely on the great frills to prop it up (see Transformers movies as someone said) cheers lol
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 21, 2019 07:12 PM |
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It's kinda like this: Viewers are impressed when a magician pulls a rabbit out of a hat. Less so when he pulls out smelly poo They are still surprised but not in a good way.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted May 21, 2019 08:00 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 20:05, 21 May 2019.
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@Verriker
Thank you! That was an objective statement.
verriker said:
to be fair do not be unrealistic, nobody will pause and say how great was the dragon special effect or whatnot because it is a busted flush, the substance and the nuance must be strong you cannot just let the dog eat the homework and rely on the great frills to prop it up (see Transformers movies as someone said) cheers lol
True. We can all agree that they didn't deliver on the script side and that it was rushed plus some characters did not recieve the treatment they deserved (maybe it looked better on paper?). They could've done better, no arguing here. There are also some character developments which seem to contradict with their previous morals, BUT people change so I wouldn't bet so much on that (ex. Jaime who does not give a f* about Kings Landing inhabitants but only Cersei, yet he previously killed the Mad King for the very same reason: the people. Guess in the end loving the people isn't higher then loving Cersei).
But how is it that, for instance people can't accept Danaerys turning full genocide when seating on the top of the strongest living weapon in the world and having people who seemingly hate her below. When she heard the bells she probably was like "that's it? Oh no you don't!". It was an impulse, you don't need a build up to that. We know the history of mankind do we? What was the point of so many civilian massacres, tell me? Yet it happened, and so many times it was supported by the authorities. Because they had the power to do so.
Why people don't accept Danaerys transformation? Because they hate the fact that their favourite character turned evil. Plus the children saying "we don't want to be like our fathers" (one of the things referenced in Danys development), yet ultimately turning into them at the end is one as oldest plot devices I can imagine. But that is just one example.
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted May 21, 2019 09:06 PM |
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blob2 said:
Btw one thing that I didn't mention, aside from the story itself, is the cinematography aspects of last episode. The scenography at Red Keep was really atmospheric and epic.
Yeah! Speaking of cinematography and epic scenes, this part left me breathless.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted May 21, 2019 09:16 PM |
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Also one could say that Daenerys's death was poetic. She wanted to break the wheel. And what started the wheel? Her ancestors all those years ago. Ageon I Targaryen created the wheel and the Iron Throne when he conquered 6 out of 7 kingdoms. He brought all of Westeros to heel.
Dany sought to break the wheel, which was the very thing her family started years ago. To break the wheel the Iron Throne and Dany herself, the last Targaryen, needed to die.
Poetic that it was Jon "Ageon" Snow who killed her. Named after the man who conquered 6 kingdoms and started the wheel. Was raised by the leader of the kingdom Aegon did not conquer, and he ended up destroying the wheel and the very symbol that represented it. Effectively destroying the last living legacy of his namesake. Poetic.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 21, 2019 10:21 PM |
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blob2 said:
Why people don't accept Danaerys transformation? Because they hate the fact that their favourite character turned evil.
I'm sure that at least the fans who named their daughters after her took it a bit personally  The show tried to make it as obvious as possible, focusing on Dany's grimaces(grr?) and her insistence on taking down Cercei no matter who stood between them(nobody after all?). But the show still pulled the 'twist' out of D&D's ass for pure shock factor. It should have been a powerful and dramatic moment but the way it happened leaves room for just two acceptable reactions: lol wtf or lmao bwahaha. It is very good for pure sadistic glee but not much else.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted May 21, 2019 10:56 PM |
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Wait, I don't recall Dany turning evil, she was freeing the people of King's Landing from the shackles of their miserable existence.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 21, 2019 11:00 PM |
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When life gives you peasants.. 
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted May 22, 2019 12:16 AM |
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Elvin said:
When life gives you peasants..
make peasantbutter?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 22, 2019 01:10 AM |
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That or raise skeletons.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted May 22, 2019 01:22 AM |
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Oddball13579 said:
Also one could say that Daenerys's death was poetic. She wanted to break the wheel. And what started the wheel? Her ancestors all those years ago. Ageon I Targaryen created the wheel and the Iron Throne when he conquered 6 out of 7 kingdoms. He brought all of Westeros to heel.
Dany sought to break the wheel, which was the very thing her family started years ago. To break the wheel the Iron Throne and Dany herself, the last Targaryen, needed to die.
Poetic that it was Jon "Ageon" Snow who killed her. Named after the man who conquered 6 kingdoms and started the wheel. Was raised by the leader of the kingdom Aegon did not conquer, and he ended up destroying the wheel and the very symbol that represented it. Effectively destroying the last living legacy of his namesake. Poetic.
...
Someone forgot why Torrhen Stark is known as the Stark who knelt.
Dorne is the only kingdom that wasn't conquered in Aegon the Conqueror's time, and some would argue it wasn't conquered at all.
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted May 22, 2019 02:02 AM |
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tSar-Ivor said:
...
Someone forgot why Torrhen Stark is known as the Stark who knelt.
Dorne is the only kingdom that wasn't conquered in Aegon the Conqueror's time, and some would argue it wasn't conquered at all.
I didn't forget. However Aegon did not 'conquer' the North because Torrhen bent the knee. But I guess this could be considered conquering the North anyway, but in a rather peaceful way.
Although you are right about Dorne. Rather bloody the wars with Dorne were. But it was eventually unified with the other kingdoms via marriage alliance was it not?
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted May 22, 2019 02:38 AM |
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Quote:
But how is it that, for instance people can't accept Danaerys turning full genocide when seating on the top of the strongest living weapon in the world and having people who seemingly hate her below.
King's Landing was established as being an imperial city. The peasants there had no political alignment to any of the great families and in fact they had no say whatsoever in how the empire was run. Not only that, Dany most certainly would have heard the story of how the entire city had thrown **** at Cersei and yelled 'shame' over and over mere months earlier (or years? who knows). She burned the city and all the peasants for no reason whatsoever, indicating she was clearly insane. Yet all her actions both beforehand and afterwards show she wasn't insane.
Quote:
We know the history of mankind do we? What was the point of so many civilian massacres, tell me?
Civilian massacres happened because of evil conquerers. This was the wheel that Dany was supposed to be breaking. She clearly understood the concept back in Asiasteros but now for some reason she doesn't.
The whole thing doesn't jibe. The story looked like exactly what it was, which was a couple of writers trying to go from personality A to personality B without a clear idea of how to do it.
It does make sense however if her intended heel turn doesn't happen in King's Landing at all. For example what if she burned Lannisport instead? Or what if Cersei wasn't involved at all and Dany got crazy on some other people that she thought was flouting her right to govern and then everybody started thinking 'whoa this chick is going way too far'. And then she says 'you ain't seen nothing yet' and then finally Rhaegar shivs her and everybody breathes a sigh of relief.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted May 22, 2019 09:16 AM |
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted May 22, 2019 09:49 AM |
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Edited by blob2 at 11:04, 22 May 2019.
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friendofgunnar said:
She burned the city and all the peasants for no reason whatsoever, indicating she was clearly insane. Yet all her actions both beforehand and afterwards show she wasn't insane.
Insanity has different faces. A man/woman can act normally in front of others, yet kill another at a blink of an eye. That is what madness is.
Quote:
We know the history of mankind do we? What was the point of so many civilian massacres, tell me?
friendofgunnar said:
Civilian massacres happened because of evil conquerers. This was the wheel that Dany was supposed to be breaking. She clearly understood the concept back in Asiasteros but now for some reason she doesn't.
And why she couldn't change into an evil conqueror? She had the madness that runs through her family, she had the reasons (somewhat, but in her head she might've). Why is it that people always try to explain something with rationale? Humanities history showed we are far from being rational.
And if you want to talk talk "peasants with no alignment", other then living in the same place. Wasn't it enough they lived in the enemies "military base"? Like it was with USA dropping the A-bomb on Hiroshima (I'm bringing this example because of the scale of casualties)? Did Americans ask the civilians if they want to surrender? Would they've stopped it even if they did? For America they were some random dudes, or evil "Japs", casualties that had to be made. Yeah, theoretically they wanted to stop the war faster, but firstly there was no guarantee that Japan would surrender, and that however you look on this, it was a moment of insanity.
Back in Essos Dany sympathized with slaves because she was a slave herself. That's why she became the "chain breaker". When she gets to Westeros, she only sees enemies, and looses more and more allies for people she hasn't the slightest sympathy for, other then "because as future king, you need to protect the people". I think at some point she thought to herself "why the f* did I put myself into this mess?". Yes, there are miriads of ways this thread could've been represented and explained more in-depth, but like I said, sometimes you can't explain moments of insanity... those just, happen.
EDIT: Here's a nice article: https://screenrant.com/game-thrones-daenerys-kings-landing-reason-why-explained/. It will probably be fleshed out better in books, but hey, books are books.
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted May 22, 2019 11:43 AM |
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blob2 said:
And if you want to talk talk "peasants with no alignment", other then living in the same place. Wasn't it enough they lived in the enemies "military base"? Like it was with USA dropping the A-bomb on Hiroshima (I'm bringing this example because of the scale of casualties)? Did Americans ask the civilians if they want to surrender? Would they've stopped it even if they did? For America they were some random dudes, or evil "Japs", casualties that had to be made.
That's a terrible example. USA dropped the nuke to force Japan to surrender. Dany 'dropped the nuke' after they surrendered. No reason = insanity.
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