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| Thread: Game Of Thrones Discussion ~ *OURS* is the fury |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 24 25 26 27 28 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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blob2
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posted May 22, 2019 12:05 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:28, 22 May 2019.
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friendofgunnar said:
That's a terrible example. USA dropped the nuke to force Japan to surrender. Dany 'dropped the nuke' after they surrendered. No reason = insanity.
So in your eyes that its ok cus ending a war justifies the means? Ok I guess. If Dany said I "do this to end the war" everything would be all good? Americans could've dropped the bomb outside of residential areas. The "look we can do it, next it will be your cities" would be enough to pressure Japanese Government, but there was Pearl Harbor so they probably also wanted revenge (plus those were different times, nobody cared about what will the general public say, especially because propaganda made Japan into monsters). Oh how easy it is to say "we made it to make them surrender" now. But they decided to go all-in, just like Danaerys who was additionally rage-inducted.
Besides the article I linked gives enough "reasons". It is up to a person how he understands the "reasons". Again the negativity is because many people hate the fact that their favorite character turned evil. Do you think any kind of explanation would help them cope with the fact she was killed off at the end? Even if it was depicted "in more detail"?
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Elvin
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posted May 22, 2019 12:50 PM |
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Are we to believe that she just happened to catch the madness right then as if it was a simple cold? Her actions did not look irrational before or after, exceptionally stupid to be sure but consistently so.
Also convenient madness is a terrible plot device to begin with. Like.. Most other plot devices lately. It's like D&D were in a hurry to finish this and move on to star wars. They didn't even have the decency to give her a proper ending.
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blob2
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posted May 22, 2019 01:25 PM |
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Elvin said:
Also convenient madness is a terrible plot device to begin with. Like.. Most other plot devices lately. It's like D&D were in a hurry to finish this and move on to star wars.
The presented reasons are enough for me. Maybe it's because I'm a cynical and do not trust the human nature and know how evil can easily surface?
Elvin said:
They didn't even have the decency to give her a proper ending.
Wtf is a "proper ending" in GoT? Are we talking about the same series in which one of most calculating characters in Westeros was killed off when taking a dump? Or another had his skull crushed cus he thought he already won a duel? Or a character who everyone rooted for was killed on a party by the most f*cking awful character in the entire series and his lackeys? Danaerys at least got a poetic ending, like Oddball described. Again, your judgment is clouded because you like the character.
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Tsar-Ivor
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Scourge of God
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posted May 22, 2019 01:45 PM |
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Anything that doesnt make me cringe, when the writers have to create shock n awe just to justify a killing it's idiotic. Meanwhile Cercei gets away with blowing up the Sept of ●●●●ing Baelor killing the head of religion, her own uncle (the head of the Lannister army mmind you) and a ton of other nobles present not to mention wiping out a portion of the city. And these common folk not only forgot about that they nonchalantly trust this monarch with no claim.
They lost the plot, it aint evil to kill NPCs, they have no souls anyhow.
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Elvin
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posted May 22, 2019 01:59 PM |
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Like tsar said, any death that doesn't disappoint. Dany's death was so hollow and formulaic that I felt nothing.
blob2 said:
Again, your judgment is clouded because you like the character.
This is hilarious because I actually dislike that stupid wench  I thought that was obvious by now.
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blob2
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posted May 22, 2019 02:08 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 14:11, 22 May 2019.
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"There's a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand." Jorah Mormont
"All rulers are either butchers or meat." Daario Naharis
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." Ramsay Bolton
And a bonus "The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends," Ser Jorah told her. "It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace." He gave a shrug. "They never are.
Elvin said:
This is hilarious because I actually dislike that stupid wench I thought that was obvious by now.
That's strange. I thought saying "They didn't even have the decency to give her a proper ending." means you do care. Guess I understood you wrongly...
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Elvin
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posted May 22, 2019 02:32 PM |
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Foreshadowing does not equal character development. I've also mentioned that I was not against Dany becoming a butcher, I just find the (lack of) transition atrocious. The plot required a final antagonist and Dany was available.
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blob2
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posted May 22, 2019 03:21 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 15:34, 22 May 2019.
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Elvin said:
Foreshadowing does not equal character development. I've also mentioned that I was not against Dany becoming a butcher, I just find the (lack of) transition atrocious. The plot required a final antagonist and Dany was available.
The series stayed true to its premise of twisting expectations. The "good guys" either turned bad (Dany) or ended up bittersweet (Jon). I still fail to see how the process of them ending up badly was "atrocious"...
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The_Polyglot
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posted May 22, 2019 05:30 PM |
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Went in there forewarned, still disappointed. If they make a God-Emperor king the least they should expect is a thousand years of prosperity and slow stagnation.
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alcibiades
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posted May 22, 2019 08:41 PM |
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While I was not exactly blown away by the last episode, I was somewhat surprised to learn about the last amount of animosity towards it that exists among fans.
First of all, I don't agree that Dany's madness appeared out of nothing. There was a direct line from Jon not following her wishes about telling his heritage to Sansa and Arya, over Tyrion telling it to Varys, who in turn betrayed her trust, and finally Jon refusing her love in episode 6 (or whenever), to her "madness" in episode 7. Like she said in episode 6, if she could not rule through love, she would do it have to do it through fear. That does not obviously not justify her actions, but it did not come out of the blue.
The irony is, that in many ways Dany was probably right. If Jon had not told Sansa about his heritage, Sansa and the north would probably have backed her rule, or at least accepted it, and Tyrion and Varys would have stayed true to her. It is entirely possible that she would have been able to have a peaceful rule with Jon by her side in this case.
I was not a particular fan of Bran ending on the throne. Would it have been a better ending with Jon getting the throne? Maybe, although I'm not sure how that would have been made plausible in terms of the storyline. I haven't really looked into what wishes people have had for an ending. On the other hand, there was a certain poetic, if dark, beauty to Jon being the one who saved Westeros from Dany, and yet he's the one who's banished to the north. I think that was well in line with the series.
Personally, there were two scenes from the last episode that really moved me. The first one was when the dragon came to Daenerys' body in the thrown room. The way it nudged her to see if she was just sleeping was very moving to me. It was a very genuine animal reaction, and I think that was a beautiful detail. The other part was Jon getting reunited with Snow.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 22, 2019 08:56 PM |
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I liked the last episode, even though it spent most time justifying the (bad) previous episodes. I found it pertinent. The wheel, and our heroes not getting what they deserved. The main characters destinies not getting fulfilled or completely changing in some cases (Arya). Some things not really adding up or working in an odd way (Bran, the dragon...). Dany becoming the mad queen didn't work for me, after everything that she has endured and lived through it hardly makes sense the way it is depicted. I think I would have been more satisfied with this finale if the rest of the season hadn't been so rushed, it needed more episodes to build all this up properly imo. I like the conclusion, but I don't like the path the writers took to get there.
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Elvin
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posted May 22, 2019 09:20 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:49, 22 May 2019.
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We are not talking rule through fear alci, there is a goddamn enormous gap between that and what actually happened. And ofc she was correct to ask for Jon's silence, any fool would know that this would lead to pointless conflict and death. Except that stupid cabbage Jon apparently.
Bran looks like the secret villain of the show, given his lack of intervention while knowing what would happen, like say getting the crown. He let his family suffer and untold amounts of families burn for a throne he 'didn't even want'. Well played.
Do Game of Thrones fans know nothing? Or are they in the right about Season Eight?
I don't agree with his alternative to Dany but this guy makes some good points. And it seems more people are noticing the trend of labeling fans as being toxic or haters to dismiss their criticism.
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alcibiades
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posted May 22, 2019 10:12 PM |
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Elvin said:
We are not talking rule through fear alci, there is a goddamn enormous gap between that and what actually happened.
I don't see the jump being that big from her previous actions, however. I even think we get all of them listed in one of the monologues, if my memory serves me: Crucifying the slaver lords, burning I don't remember who and how many on the other continent, burning the lords Tarwell ... is it Tyrion who says it to John? It's been there all the way, but they've sort of seen through it because they felt she was doing it for the right cause. Maybe she was. But all the way, she's felt entitled to do whatever it takes for her to establish her will and gain power. For me, what happened in episode 7 was not the part I liked least. In fact, I really liked episode 7, grim as it was.
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Elvin
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posted May 22, 2019 10:18 PM |
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Ofc you did, dragon carnage man!
Game of Thrones - How to Ruin a Great Show
Another good video that explains the general disappointment, how the characters and writing were mishandled and so on.
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alcibiades
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posted May 22, 2019 11:05 PM |
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Here's another video by same guy as your previous post which I also think sums it up nicely.
For me, the biggest disappointments of the series were - nobody important died in the long night battle. I mean, that was anticlimax. We have had that build up over I don't know how many seasons, and then the only one moderately important dying was Ser Jorah which was a bit ... whatever.
Next was the turning of Jamie to return to Cersei which made zero sense. They should have killed him off in the battle instead, that would have been a much bigger loss, and the whole unfulfilled Jamie/Brienne thing would have been interesting, instead of just him randomly leaving her again (although the Jamie/Euron battle was cool).
And then I agree the final council was really random and implausible, choosing Bran seemed unlikely. Plus I felt Bran was a way too cool character to waste in something like this. I guess in an alternative scenario they could have chosen the council as a means to bring Jon forth as a surprise candidate to the thrown, revealing his lineage. Not sure if it would have worked, but then again, this felt rather flat also.
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Oddball13579
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posted May 23, 2019 01:45 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Like she said in episode 6, if she could not rule through love, she would do it have to do it through fear.
When she was freeing slaves from Essos she was loved by the people she freed. Her whole time there she was beloved by the people. Because she was the one who freed them from her torment. However, when she sailed to Westeros, everyone regarded her with fear and mistrust, nothing like what she was used to dealing with. She was used to ruling with love. But the people of Westeros were not slaves, and she could not "free them" so to speak. So she was probably right. Ruling through fear but still being benevolent would have been her best option.
Galaad said:
The main characters destinies not getting fulfilled or completely changing in some cases (Arya).
So what was all that snow from Melisandre about Arya, "closing brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes". Honestly Arya becoming a pirate was the most out of the blue thing they could have done. Is she hunting down Drogon or something? Also Bran being the King? Ugh. What a stupid way. Also the only reason Sansa wanted the North to remain independent is because she wanted to be Queen. The series should have been called Game of Starks instead. Now there are only 7 Great Houses left. Tyrell and Targaryen and both gone.
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Elvin
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posted May 23, 2019 08:39 AM |
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@Alci
Did you just link the same vid?  The night battle was an awesome spectacle but damn, they made such an easy affair out of it. All main chars surrounded or hugged by 4 wights each time the camera cuts to black, they're fine when you next see them. The Dothraki are decimated, by ep 6 they are revived. Next to no major deaths. Crypt scene added for shock factor, nothing happens. Jon tries to kill an undead dragon by screaming. Arya bypasses all the wights and annihilates the whole army with a stab.
It was obvious that got went full pop corn. It really is a pity that such a colossal effort was blemished by poor lighting and silly plot issues.
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blob2
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posted May 23, 2019 09:39 AM |
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Edited by blob2 at 09:42, 23 May 2019.
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Oddball13579 said:
So what was all that snow from Melisandre about Arya, "closing brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes". Honestly Arya becoming a pirate was the most out of the blue thing they could have done. Is she hunting down Drogon or something? Also Bran being the King? Ugh. What a stupid way. Also the only reason Sansa wanted the North to remain independent is because she wanted to be Queen. The series should have been called Game of Starks instead. Now there are only 7 Great Houses left. Tyrell and Targaryen and both gone.
Arya sailing away was a nod to a dialogue from a few seasons back where she was interested in "what is West of Westeros". If you remember her from previous seasons at some point she started to be a vagabond and it seems it grew on her. I assume if Hound was still around she would travel with him. What other option was left to her? Not only is she completely uninterested in court life, there's also nothing left to rule for her, as her siblings took the seats...
Bran becoming a king was a wtf moment, the whole Tyrion monologue was also cheesy, but like I said this choice makes sense from the "neutral king" standpoint (even if he is a Stark he doesn't give a f* about it). I think the problem with this story element is that the character was badly depicted: not only the actor wasn't likable, they made him look really useless. I see what Martin was trying to accomplish with this character, but I can agree he is one of the weakest elements of last seasons and D&D did a bad job with this character... the character does not bring enough of an impact to the story as his story arc would suggest.
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Elvin
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posted May 23, 2019 09:45 AM |
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Either d&d afraid to get creative with raven tricks or he really was a villain ^^
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blob2
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posted May 23, 2019 10:03 AM |
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Edited by blob2 at 10:04, 23 May 2019.
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Elvin said:
Either d&d afraid to get creative with raven tricks or he really was a villain ^^
Yeah, I'm certain that he used those ravens to at least bait NK out of the magical blizzard, but it appears people don't buy this (everyone is like "he was useless in the battle"). It would be cool if he at least used his Warg powers to maybe take over a White Walker or Ghost or sth?
At the end of the day his role in the series was to at least confirm that Jon is a Targaryen which is a major game changer.
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