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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2016 06:13 PM |
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Quote:
but much much better recording/filming quality than before.
Now you know the difference between "bootleg" and "OFFICIAL". 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 03, 2016 07:26 PM |
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Question for Salamandre:
I just got this Rachmaninov album where they used some digital technology to transform the master tapes from 1919. This is something unusual, not your typical cleaning. They actually sound like they are directly recorded with modern equipment, no hiss or anything at the slightest.
Now, I have another mp3 in my archive, different label but same set of tracks (one has 19, the other has 18 in total). So, I'm guessing, they used the same master tapes. And it's the same Rachmaninov plays Rachmaninov presentation. However, they sound a little different to me.
Here's a sample with two versions of the same track:
Prelude in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 3, No.2
What do you think? Does the original recording lose authenticity during this process? Do you have any knowledge about it?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 03, 2016 08:36 PM |
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I don't understand whats about. The two things are not the same recording. The tempo differs then the chords in the opening phase are slightly arpeggiate in the original, while in the second track they are simultaneous.
Then personally I think the recordings from that era have a special charisma and color.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 03, 2016 08:57 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:58, 03 Jun 2016.
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Yes, that's what I heard too, it's different. But the thing is, here's the track list of the first one:
Link
And this is the second one:
As you can see, it's quite a specific set of songs that fit like a glove to a hand. And the info says "By using unprecedented new techniques of transfer and reproduction, the mechanical aspects of music roll performances have been eliminated." What does that even mean? The sound is so clean, it makes you think that they made some AI replay the tunes by exactly imitating Rachmaninov's moves. Recordings from the 50's can not be cleaned up this efficiently! And since I listen to a lot of 20's 30's jazz and blues, I know that even the best cleaned up records from that period contain a lot of background noise. So what I'm asking is, do you think that it is the original recordings cleaned up or is it some kind of remake?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 03, 2016 09:05 PM |
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I am not very knowledgeable in music sound engineering, but if they say is same track, then they certainly changed things inside, in order to clean the sound. Like tempo, the way he attacks the chords, the pauses, and so on.
So we have a nice photo conversion of Mona Lisa. Why not. But I think I will stick to the old, if you don't mind.
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted June 04, 2016 12:04 AM |
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Have you ever seen a player piano? These are century old pianos that have a mechanism on the inside. The mechanism can be fit with a roll of paper that has a sequence of holes in it. If you run the mechanism with the paper some small mechanical devices will sense the holes and trigger the playing of individual notes. The entire device can be run without electricity.
If you want to make one of the paper rolls you have to sit at an even more complicated piano that punches holes as you play. This is what is being referred to on the music tracks. At some point in time Rachmaninoff sat down and made some 'recordings'.
Skip to the modern day, you can digitize those rolls of paper, write some software, and skip the mechanical player piano altogether. That's how you can get a different tempo from the same 'recording'.
As far as I know you couldn't change dynamics in player piano 'performances', which is why they were associated with rinky-dink music. Presumeably after the computer conversion they edited in some dynamics, so you have Rachmaninoffs original timing combining with some modern post-production.
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted June 04, 2016 12:11 AM |
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wow, Rachey was really loose with his timing, prolly looser than any performer I've heard. The dynamics they baked in afterwards are kind of interesting too.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 04, 2016 12:27 AM |
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I have no clue about the technical process they use, but I know one thing, if you change the dynamics even by 0.0001 seconds, then the thing is no longer Rachmaninoff but some computer generated phrasing, since the only way to differentiate two interpretations of the same classical work -where 100% of notes are identical, is the dynamics.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 04, 2016 03:26 AM |
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Thanks friendofgunner, I knew about those pianos from western movies and so on but I had no idea classical composers used them to record back in the day or the outcome was called "music rolls." This enlightens it like a light bulb.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 08, 2016 04:08 AM |
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Back in my teens, stepping further from all that wonderful blues rock solos to discover what jazz is, I bought a Duke Ellington CD with my allowance, there was a version of St. Louis Blues in it, it was incredible. I probably listened to it like a hundred times over and over again and even today, how Johnny Hodges and Harry “Sweets” Edison rhyme on each other, is still my answer to what great jazz is all about. There are zillions of St. Louis Blues versions out there and I already had my favorite.
But the way Margot Bingham sings it, I have a new favorite. I don’t know if it’s because of the poetic sarcasm in the intro but I keep coming back to this version as if it’s some password to a self-fulfilling prophecy. “Feeling tomorrow, like I feel today.” That lyric by itself is genius in its simplicity to express a pessimistic prediction of how you’ll ever feel. And the way she sings, she just nails that poetry perfectly. The words (the song) is so standard, it's almost as if it's traditional. But she doesn't sing tradition, she genuinely expresses.
Margot Bingham - St. Louis Blues
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 06, 2016 06:05 PM |
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@ Salamandre
I think I finally found something that might pique your interest. The guy is also playing acoustic guitar, but youtube isn't exactly well-stocked with examples sounding halfway passable. He is a rock musician, of course, but ... well, he loves classic. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 06, 2016 06:17 PM |
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My bet is, he wont like it one bit. This kind of rock "virtuosity" dont impress classical music lovers.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 06, 2016 06:57 PM |
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Look, virtuosity is when you go beyond what is commonly called excellent and perfect playing. It requires a perfect concentration, attention and total control of your body movements. What you show me is like a skater planning to do a triple flip but finally, just before doing so, he thinks it will make more impression if he brutally shakes his hairdo three times on and off, then he adds useless leg movements to boost this effect, and a few funny faces later he finally ends by doing a single flip, and not even technically correct. If we addition all the movements he did, he did 10 times more than what was required for the triple flip, therefore it looks like an effort.
This is about the visual side. Now about the musical aspect, personally I can't listen to such soup more than a few seconds because I have no clue on what to focus, where he breathes, where he pauses, where his music is alive and no mechanical. Then the content is trivial, a few themes from here, a few from there, a few arpeggios to spice the action and we start the recipe again because public is warm. Is a show, therefore the visual action overrides the content.
We disagree on the roots, for me music isn't a spectacle, but a spiritual journey. My two cents, doubt it will satisfy you, but you asked for.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 06, 2016 07:33 PM |
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Well, no, it does satisfy me, because it's your two cents, and indeed I asked for it.
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haiduk
Tavern Dweller
demoniac
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posted August 28, 2016 02:49 AM |
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Edited by haiduk at 02:51, 28 Aug 2016.
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evil blackened death metal: haiduk
\m/
HEAVILY inspired by Heroes of Might & Magic!!
New Album: "DemonicoN"
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MNzg3i4ACg[/url]
[url]http://www.haiduk.ca[/url]
.........
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-Haiduk
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 28, 2016 07:01 AM |
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There are people who will appreciate this but to me it's noise like all death metal.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 28, 2016 08:06 AM |
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haiduk said:
HEAVILY inspired by Heroes of Might & Magic!!
Indeed, now that I listen attentively I can find reminiscences from lyches death cloud, here and there.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted August 30, 2016 05:16 PM |
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Jon Lord - It's All Music
link
Well done Doc. about the keyboard player of Deep Purple that loved Rock and Classical music...together.
Re-making his Hammond's-sound to compete with Blackmore's riffs was a cutting-edge move at the time.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted September 05, 2016 05:42 PM |
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Yavuz Çetin-Köle, one of his own songs
lots of amazing solos by him, in a complation
one of the best blues guitarist this world ever seen. he wasnt really apprecieated when he was living. became famous after his death, i still find his music very underrated just because he is turkish. if you didnt heard him before, please do yourself a favor and listen this guy. such a shame he wasnt born in america... guy felt into a deep depression and commited suicide in his early ages.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 05, 2016 05:53 PM |
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I actually met Yavuz Çetin. His band was playing in a bar that I was the DJ of, in Ankara, during the late 90's. The band and I went out to a diner after the bar closed and had ourselves some soup to sober up. He was a really nice guy, very introvert and shy. Very sad he threw himself off the bridge.
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This thread is pages long: 
