|
|
SepSpring
Known Hero
|
posted January 27, 2014 06:42 PM |
|
|
Spell trade. Absolutely not my cup of tea. In my opinion, the guilds should contain all the spells that belong to the schools essential for this town type. I'm against the idea of any limitations concerning the number of spells which the guilds provide per level. Gold and skill requirements are the answer for me.
Research. Quite hazily. While reading its description, I came up with the following idea. Firstly, I enjoyed the point of making it unique for Academy. Secondly, the concept itself. I think Academy wizards should be able to analyse spells in details and control them totally. Example: wizard is going to cast the "Blizzard" spell. He's able to use a perk, assign the spell's duration, determine its destructive power and the size of the area covered by the "Blizzard" manually. After casting the spell, he can move the whole cloud to another place on the battlefield, increase / decrease / set to zero its destructiveness, reshape and resize the cloud by hand (in order not to hit his allies), stop the spell (temporarily or completely), add an unlocked perk (for example, invoke the storm winds), remove the used perk (if the storm winds started to disturb your shooters, for instance) and so on. Of course, all these actions should require the additional spendings of spell points.
Scroll writing. Sounds good, but complex. I have to think it over.
|
|
Natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
|
|
posted January 27, 2014 06:54 PM |
|
|
Please, in h5 was crucial to get regeneration from guild. If again every faction needs it then make it easy. It hinders map making.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2014 08:23 PM |
|
|
|
So Sep, you want all skills to be in the town's university and all spells in the Mage Guild, and your hero will have to buy them, right?... Do you think there's gonna be any replayability like that? If you don't have some randomness and some limits you'll play a map once then quit the game.
|
|
SepSpring
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2014 08:51 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So Sep, you want all skills to be in the town's university and all spells in the Mage Guild, and your hero will have to buy them, right?...
Yes, I want all essential for the faction skills and spells available in academies / guilds / universities for a fee. I hate randomness as I want to develop my hero according to my strategy, not computer's.
To my mind, randomness can be brought to the game in a different and more logical way. Weather, for example. Wind, rain, storm, mist, cold, heat - these are the true elements of randomness.
Quote:
Do you think there's gonna be any replayability like that? If you don't have some randomness and some limits you'll play a map once then quit the game.
I don't think so. The ideal game of mine has both alternative creatures (IV) and alternative upgrades (V), weather conditions, huge Ability Tree with numerous worthy skill combinations... It's impossible to say that the game like this has no replayability.
Quote:
BUT, there should still be some immediate effect after your hero gets a level, and I don't think an empty slot where you may learn a skill will suffice. So, what do you think about that?
I think that a hero should get several skill points and one ability point with each level. And it's up to the player to decide which of the primary skills to increase with the skill points obtained. That's the immediate effect. Ability points are for towns' universities.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2014 09:33 PM |
|
|
Actually, a game like that, as far as skills and abilities goes, has 0 replayability. You won't play it twice if you get everything served on a silver plate, trust me, I speak from experience.
You will always end up taking the exact same 6 skills from the total of 12 (H5 Skillwheel) in the exact same order. Tell me one reason for which you'd do otherwise - 0 replayability
You will always buy the exact same spells in the exact same order, and eventually end up having them all just from your town (I just got a glimpse of how stupid this would be just by writing it) - 0 replayability
I agree with the alternative creatures + alternative upgrades, only that this might end in a game full of redundant troops AND it's like mission impossible for Ubi. A weather system would be nice, but if you expect something like that to make a game replayable then... best of luck.
You'll end up spending your primary skill points in the exact same way and even in the exact same order - 0 replayability
|
|
odium
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2014 10:46 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
So Sep, you want all skills to be in the town's university and all spells in the Mage Guild, and your hero will have to buy them, right?... Do you think there's gonna be any replayability like that? If you don't have some randomness and some limits you'll play a map once then quit the game.
This is not a direct reply to your comment, but you mentioned replayability and I wanted to express some thoughts I have on this. This genre has a low re-playability value from a single-player point of view (all strategy games do, be they real-time or turn-based). In the end, it's a linear set of missions with scripted events. Of course you could have some sort of pseudo-replaybility by designing some situations like save A or B (not both together, if A you lose B and vice-verse). Anyway, even this is very limited and is kind of marginal with respect to replayability.
The key is to provide replayability from a multi-player point of view. Having a game that is balanced and which does not include too many aspects governed by chance, will be a success for a decent amount of time. If the game is well built, even on the same map with the same opponents there should be different strategies/tactics that one could use. H5 was a decent start, even tough I would say far from perfect. However, H6 has virtually no multi-player value but has an improved single-player experience (better story, all those accomplishments, fancy leveled artifacts etc). I guess that we all know whose life was longer. I am not saying that the developer should not improve on the single-player experience if possible. I just want to stress that a H7 with a low multi-player value will have a short life-span like H6.
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 06:45 AM |
|
|
Natalka said:
Please, in h5 was crucial to get regeneration from guild. If again every faction needs it then make it easy. It hinders map making.
Um, regeneration was not a great spell in H5. Would much prefer Endurance. From the same light school, maybe Ressurection was cool.
|
|
natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 07:14 AM |
|
|
|
maybe...endurance will save you from arcane archers or archmages..but most likely not at all..you can`t afford to lose 1 level 6 unit. I`m talking about power creeping in first 2 weeks. Many maps put regeneration scrolls or a quest hut to get the retarded spell.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 08:34 AM |
|
|
Natalka said:
Please, in h5 was crucial to get regeneration from guild. If again every faction needs it then make it easy. It hinders map making.
Natalka, there is a majority that wishes to ban all abilities/spells that can regain losses from early and early to mid play; thankfully HoMM VI overdid things so massively that the negative effects became rather obvious, not the least of which is slowing the game down.
There is nothing wrong with a HEAL spell/ability (healing X HPs of damage from the top creature; no bringing back of the dead) for a faction like Haven or a spell school like Light/Water - but basically that should be it with the exception of Necro antics.
|
|
natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 09:01 AM |
|
Edited by natalka at 09:06, 28 Jan 2014.
|
There was a majority that was against only one precious resource and so what?
I`m ok with ditching all the healing. Let`s take h5 as example.
1)Haven could creep with war machines also. But why waste a whole skill tree when you can just creep with regen.
2)Dwarfs - same as above
3)Sylvan & Academy - we can argue that battle can be done with ice bolt, decay, fire trap, slow etc. But eventually you will need regeneration sooner or later.
They made maps hard and it was a clear imbalance if one player gets regeneration on day 1 and the other player has to pull out miracles, sacrifice skill trees and skip guards.
I like how Dungeon without healing in H6 is on par with other healing factions creeping wise. The combination of manticore`s sting, high-damage output units and -5 initiative of shades is just enough.
But how can we be sure they can make this for every faction so they are all balanced in creeping. If they put regeneration spell I`m sure every faction will need it again on hard maps and then if appears random in guild....
|
|
SepSpring
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 09:14 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Actually, a game like that, as far as skills and abilities goes, has 0 replayability. You won't play it twice if you get everything served on a silver plate, trust me, I speak from experience.
It's just your point of view. I enjoy the possibility to learn skills manually. And I have replayed skirmish maps in "Heroes VI" numerous times: playing different factions, against different enemies, using different hero builds. It was OK, and I still have a lot to try in this game.
|
|
Hermes
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 09:25 AM |
|
|
As was playing Might and Magic X since its release, and it is a game that reuses a lot of Heroes 6 models. Now, I was against the idea at first, but in the game it looks and feels awesome. And it got me thinking: do you really need to have so very well detailed creature models with all fancy animations for good luck, defend, etc? I love all these things in Heroes 6, I admit, but is it a good investment of money?
Say, the Stalker from SoD. She has animation for melee combat and melee good luck, these too animations are very rarely seen on the battlefield since she is a ranged creature. And the same goes for all other creatures as well. Then, from a combat view in Heroes, you very rarely zoom all the way in to look on your creatures, and most people switch 'cinematic' camera off. So may be it is better to invest more money into gameplay and variety of races and creatures rather then the quality and variety of their animations? In Heroes 3 for example, these animations were simple and limited but it did no detract from the fun factor of this game.
P.s. Have to admit, Devs under Ubisoft made a great efforts with this models. Its pretty intimidating to see a Minotaur close in on your party and then swipe his Axe across all your party members. Or the Assassin striking critically with his daggers - looks pretty scary.
|
|
Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 09:47 AM |
|
Edited by Avirosb at 09:47, 28 Jan 2014.
|
Quote:
Yes, I want all essential for the faction skills and spells available in academies / guilds / universities for a fee. I hate randomness as I want to develop my hero according to my strategy, not computer's.
Random spells in universities does have some logic to it;
they're basically being researched and developed over and over every game.
Maybe one should be able to focus on certain schools but that's it.
Quote:
To my mind, randomness can be brought to the game in a different and more logical way. Weather, for example. Wind, rain, storm, mist, cold, heat - these are the true elements of randomness.
Unless of course you've built the Tower of Meteorology 
A hailstorm in the desert, now that is random 
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 09:57 AM |
|
|
natalka said:
There was a majority that was against only one precious resource and so what?
It's different whether people are against something beforehand or after the experience. Beforehand it's a lot of theory - after the experience, the experience speaks for itself.
Now, GENERALLY spoken, the thing is, that it's impossible to have all skills, spells and abilities be equally useful in all stages of the game. Knowing that, HoMM 6 having free skill picks, they thought it would be right to have abilities more useful at start and abilities more useful in the end.
However, what they didn't realize at the point is, that abilities/spells which UNDO things must necessarily be imbalanced at a time where all effects will have a massive impact due to your low troop strength - if you have 250 HPs on the battleground and you suffer 50 damage, an ability that can UNDO that damage is obviously a monster of an ability. Undoing stuff is like controlling time, which is bad for a game, so these things must be TIGHTLY controlled.
|
|
SepSpring
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 10:44 AM |
|
|
Quote:
As was playing Might and Magic X since its release, and it is a game that reuses a lot of Heroes 6 models. Now, I was against the idea at first, but in the game it looks and feels awesome. And it got me thinking: do you really need to have so very well detailed creature models with all fancy animations for good luck, defend, etc? I love all these things in Heroes 6, I admit, but is it a good investment of money?
Say, the Stalker from SoD. She has animation for melee combat and melee good luck, these too animations are very rarely seen on the battlefield since she is a ranged creature. And the same goes for all other creatures as well. Then, from a combat view in Heroes, you very rarely zoom all the way in to look on your creatures, and most people switch 'cinematic' camera off. So may be it is better to invest more money into gameplay and variety of races and creatures rather then the quality and variety of their animations? In Heroes 3 for example, these animations were simple and limited but it did no detract from the fun factor of this game.
Completely agree.
Quote:
A hailstorm in the desert, now that is random
Oh, please, stop it... This can really become a significant factor of randomness. I'm not sure if the player will decide to siege an enemy's castle in the stormy weather that practically disables his shooters and flyers. The fact that bad weather can last several days / weeks makes sense.
|
|
Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 11:04 AM |
|
Edited by Avirosb at 11:05, 28 Jan 2014.
|
SepSpring said:
Quote:
Oh, please, stop it... This can really become a significant factor of randomness. I'm not sure if the player will decide to siege an enemy's castle in the stormy weather that practically disables his shooters and flyers. The fact that bad weather can last several days / weeks makes sense.
How's the weather gonna be presented though?
Unless it's a fixed perspective (à la H1-3) with weather shown in the background,
I can see constant downpour getting kinda annoying after a while.
Edit: That is, to look at.
|
|
natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 11:09 AM |
|
|
|
I don`t think regeneration is imbalanced. Healing of creatures is imbalanced.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 11:31 AM |
|
|
Reviving the dead is imbalanced. Healing or regenerating the damage suffered by A SINGLE STILL LIVING creature is not.
Later on, when there are more creatures in play, healing/regenerating the damage of just one creature, even if highest tier, will become more insignificant from week to week - which means, LATER ON, reviving a certain amount of creatures no matter how isn't imbalanced.
|
|
natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 11:47 AM |
|
|
Actually there is a balance in H6 about this:
might heroes can cast it for 25 mana.
First week you can cast it twice. Ofc you visit a dragon vein you can cast it twice again. In a map where there are 20 battles I think it is a very good balance.
Second week you can cast it 4-5 times only.
It is not like in h5 where you casted it 2-3 times to regenerate all arcane archers and the same again in next battle. Greetings to Let`s Fight map
If you think regen is imbalanced in the way it is then you probably like h3 style - heal level 5 or 6. But then you will need those masses of level 1 and 2 creatures to make it balanced.
I think it is the same if u cast every turn heal on one creature or to regenerate every 3 turns. Or to wait for level 5-6 to beat simple shooters- this is what stalls the game....I don`t see imbalance. If you think it sounds more pro creeping to play with heal so be it.
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted January 28, 2014 12:12 PM |
|
|
|
The healing in H5 was spot on. Troops were more easily killed then healed. In H6, troops were sturdy so healing was way OP.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
