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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 05, 2014 11:25 PM |
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Honestly don't know what they were thinking with putting swordbearer as a champions unit. It looks subpar to pretty much any champion unit in Heroes history. It's as if they couldn't come up with nothing else champion worthy but an angel for haven so they improvised.
Even the upgraded version of this unit looks elite tier at best.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted September 05, 2014 11:26 PM |
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blizz said:
It looks subpar to pretty much any champion unit in Heroes history.
Crusaders/Paladins were pretty much the same concept as Swordbearers, but cooler 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 06, 2014 12:55 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 00:56, 06 Sep 2014.
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blizz said:
Even the upgraded version of this unit looks elite tier at best.
Just make him taller and give him a bigger sword it will do.
LizardWarrior said:
Crusaders/Paladins were pretty much the same concept as Swordbearers, but cooler
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted September 06, 2014 02:38 AM |
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I loved the extra choices you got in TOE, and it allowed you to try different units and tactics out, and added to the replayability of the game. So I really like the idea of having 2 champions creatures, especially if that means by conquering 2 different towns you could have both in your lineup. I always wanted this implemented, but I didn't think it would be at the champion level. I thought you could have maybe 4 core creatures which you could only choose 3 of, same again for the elites, and then 1 champion.
I do believe that if the two champion creature buildings have vastly different resource costs then it could be a sucky determining factor as to which champion you select. If you make both cost the same then balance between the two becomes a concern. The swordbearer would have to be pretty darn good for me to choose it over a flying Angel. The general problem with walking units is that while they are strong in normal combat, they become far less useful in a town siege. Take the Kirin for example, I really enjoyed playing as Sanctuary when in open battlefields, the bulk of the army getting extra movement after going through the kirins trail, however I disliked sieging a town with them because the only units that could get an attack in behind the wall in the first few rounds were the coral priestesses, and the snow maidens. Meanwhile the Kirins trail became pretty useless. Compare that to Haven as a random example, and the Marksmen, Griffin, Blazing Glory and Seraph could all put pressure behind the wall, while the cavalry unit bashed down the gate and the sisters healed.
If the swordbearer creates a disadvantage for me when in a siege, then I'm far less likely to choose it because at the end of the day taking the enemy's cities is where the big battles happen. So that's why balancing that unit seems difficult to me.
I still think that when compared to Angels, Pit Fiends, Dragons, Titans, Hydras, Not a Phoenix, Cyclops and beasts of similar grandeur, a slightly taller dude with a big sword just doesn't compare. I like him, but as currently constructed he looks like an elite to me.
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Magic Bird, only a working
title. Phew
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odium
Known Hero
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posted September 06, 2014 10:47 PM |
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Edited by odium at 22:48, 06 Sep 2014.
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Like many here, I don't find particularly fitting the choice for the Swordbearer as a champion unit. I cannot possibly imagine how it can be more powerful compared to the Horseman (btw both names suck  ). For me it makes sense to have them the other way around. Obviously I understand why this cannot happen: the Horseman will have an important role in the overall army structure so it cannot be one of the optional champion units. I have nothing against the concept but is definitely more fitting for an elite or even a core unit. Also I believe that we will have a warrior pedestrian unit at the core level as well so this seems a bit too much, boring. I believe that Glories and Griffins were better options than another, bigger pedestrian fighter.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 07, 2014 10:11 AM |
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In some artwork his sword is glowing blue aura it might be made from magical steel and this is the reason why he was implemented in champion spot which allows him fight as equal against other champion units thanks to his sword and physical abilites.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 07, 2014 10:21 AM |
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So ... magic bolts for the magic crossbow would the Crossbowman champion? Three cheers, then, for technology.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 07, 2014 10:35 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
So ... magic bolts for the magic crossbow would the Crossbowman champion? Three cheers, then, for technology.
than maybe you come with better idea why he was picked as champion unit.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted September 07, 2014 10:46 AM |
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Quote:
than maybe you come with better idea why he was picked as champion unit.
heroes 1 & 2
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 07, 2014 11:04 AM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Quote:
than maybe you come with better idea why he was picked as champion unit.
heroes 1 & 2
than i love this idea since knight castle was my favorite in HoMaM II
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 07, 2014 11:40 AM |
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Except that in HoMM I and II, while the unit was the best of the town, it was also no Champion: 50 HPs in HoMM 1, 65 in HoMM 2 for the upgrade. They Hydras have 75 HPs in HoMM 2 - and they are not the Champion unit of their castle.
Which is to say, the balance was different.
Here, though, we have the Angels as a Champion. So let's say Horseman comes with 90 HPs and a regular production of 2 as an Elite. Angel comes with 250 HPs and a prod of 1.
How will the swordbearer look? With a HP of 130 which would be massive for a mere human, and a production of 2 it would just be a strong Elite (and if the Horseman had a prod of 3, Champions would be somewhat weakish in power).
Also, a different production number for champions will work only with either percentage adding buildings and/or Horde buildings, but not with flat additions like in HoMM 2/6, and not with flat additions for outside dwellings.
The alternativee is a Swordbearer with nearly Angel/Dragon-like HPs - and that's where things don't work anymore - and have in fact never been that way.
Now, if you consider the good HPs that Angels will have, the fact that they can fly and possibly resurrect, and if you make Swordbearer Champion production (base growth 1) plus a HP that is at least halfway believable - say 180 as opposed to the Angels 250) - how much of a fighting monster would he have to be? Better values than angel in every department, plus a nice ability for the whole army - plus X Moral for everyone plus something else or so.
Which is somewhat silly.
The Crusader in HoMM 2 felt right. VERY vulnerable to magic, but MONSTROUSLY effective against undead. Totally unbalanced - and so much fun. But still - they just DIED so easily, and often you had to win the battle in turn 1: Have first turn with Champions, cast Mass Haste and immediately cut the hell out of the opposition - but not when you had to take a town, and you HAD to do that at some point.
That is NOT how HoMM VII will work, obviously. I mean, you COULD do it: Have Swordbearer with 80 HPs, give him Cleave with a damage of around 50 per hit, give him enough speed to reach the other side with high initiative and give him a passive ability that adds to the army speed and init. But not only would that leave you somewhat helpless in a siege battle, it would also be no fun for everyon else. You also need the HERO to do the main work for the whole army, not a Champion.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 07, 2014 12:16 PM |
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Wellplay said:
LizardWarrior said:
Quote:
than maybe you come with better idea why he was picked as champion unit.
heroes 1 & 2
than i love this idea since knight castle was my favorite in HoMaM II
I agree with you guys, but he look to ordinary. The H2 Crusader isn't. He is a knight with a huge 2-handed sword, but he doesnt look that ordinary.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted September 08, 2014 01:38 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 13:39, 08 Sep 2014.
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Personally not going to judge until I can see what he actually does. Personally I think he is kinda badass rugged wolf themed two handed sword bearer who is on Elrath juice?
Can't wait to see what he can do and because he is a champion unit he must have something that makes him stand out.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted September 08, 2014 06:17 PM |
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I want to marry the Swordbearer, its so original, so tall, so big, so powerful, so cool, so awesome, so beautiful, so manly, so handsome, so incredible, so mighty, so oldschool, so nostalgic, so in the possession of a BIG weapon, so so so so so so INCREDIBLE!
I hope all champion units are so awesome and sooooo original!
[/sarcasm mode]
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somi
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2014 08:31 PM |
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Why is the unit 2x2 size?
If they made the unit like in h1 and h2, so not powerful (but maybe you get them a lot) I would be ok, but still from the looks its just another melee boring human.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 09, 2014 10:05 PM |
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lokdron said:
Personally not going to judge until I can see what he actually does. Personally I think he is kinda badass rugged wolf themed two handed sword bearer who is on Elrath juice?
Can't wait to see what he can do and because he is a champion unit he must have something that makes him stand out.
So far, we know that he has sweep attack, like Cerberus, but since he is a champion he has something else for sure.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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NACHOOOO
Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
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posted September 10, 2014 09:03 AM |
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Confirmation that the Swordbearer will be able to hit multiple foes. I love it, will make for some interesting choices strategically and makes him a lot more viable as a champion creature even though he doesn't quite look the part
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 10:36 AM |
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Lol, it it is much bigger than Golems.
I hate it even more now.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 10, 2014 11:12 AM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
Lol, it it is much bigger than Golems.
I hate it even more now.
To be fair, Golems look equally tall to crossbowmen
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 10, 2014 11:29 AM |
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Actually the golems look about 1/4 smaller then the crosbowman..
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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