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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 22, 2014 06:36 PM |
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moonshade said:
The Swordbearer can be HOMM's version of Gregor Clegane, the Mountain! Absurdly huge and brutal men wearing the heaviest armor and carrying massive weapons nobody else can lift.
Oh God, are we having the giant dwarfs back in a new faction? 
As I also said above, from a general pov. I dislike this creature because I think champions should have a mythological and epic status. Problem is, obviously, that there are not really a lot of creatures that fit with the Haven theme to fill into this slot. I'm not completely adverse to the idea of the Griffin being upgraded to champion level just to try it, but that would have too much overlap with the Angel to be a really good candidate. Some sort of giant siege engine/catapult could do it also, but given how they have already thought war machines in another light, that's not an obvious pick either.
With regards to history of the previous games, I never really like the Paladin in H2, but at least back then you didn't have the choice of another unit and had to make the better of it. H4 mounted unit didn't fair too badly compared to the Angel I think, the key to that was definitely the fact that their dwelling didn't take any special resources, so I think that will a necessary element for success here: The one thing that might make me settle for an inferior unit could be the fact that I got it very early. One thing we still need to learn is whether one can change the dwelling, I guess if you could change in your own town it would be problematic, on the other hand H4 version of being stuck with the AI's stupid choices was horrible.
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Naze
Known Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 06:56 PM |
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Definitely a bad idea. Does not fit as a champion unit, looks like an elite - yet, there can be better, and more original elites in the human line-up. Also, the name is just really lame. If I was the game designer, I would scrap the whole concept.
Instead of him, there could be griffin, glory, valkyrie (I know, dwarves, but I still think valkyrie would fit the Haven lineup) or something like the shrine of smiting... anything.
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Dwarfurious
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 06:58 PM |
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Heh shrine of smiting would be interesting XD... But i wont condemn a units viability based on its race.
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 07:02 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Oh God, are we having the giant dwarfs back in a new faction?
I know right? The most absurd and ridiculous unit in whole H5.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 08:10 PM |
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I propose an exercise for each one of you. Try to think of a Haven champion creature that...
-is not a human or humanoid;
-fits the the faction theme and lore;
-has an ability that makes it worthwhile to have compared to the Seraph.
This is something that's indeed constructive.
Go.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted August 22, 2014 08:12 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 20:15, 22 Aug 2014.
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Warhammer's Steam Tank? 
We have Dwarf Staem (Pirate) Ship already in lore (althrough only one).
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted August 22, 2014 08:27 PM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 20:29, 22 Aug 2014.
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@But to all who agree with idea of SB's: He is nice looking and similar units were alyways in this town, but isnt he tooooo ordinary for a champion creature? He is just a tall man with a sword. How he can be powerful as a dragon? There are some legend about great heroes who were dragon and etc slayers but that guys still doesn't look in this hero status... he is very ordinary. What do you think about this? For me he will make nice elite unit. Not more. I pref angels.
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About ideas about other units that fit champion, why not some other kind of knight? Dragon/griffin, something else knight?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 09:00 PM |
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Stevie said:
I propose an exercise for each one of you. Try to think of a Haven champion creature that...
-is not a human or humanoid;
-fits the the faction theme and lore;
-has an ability that makes it worthwhile to have compared to the Seraph.
This is something that's indeed constructive.
Go.
I already delivered. Giant. German mythological creature - basically a wild colossus.
Give him a nice partial wolf armor and either one big or two not quite as big spiked maces, give him a couple of abilities I can sketch, if anyone is interested, that play with the fact that the guy is big.
I also had an idea for a special ability, INCITE CHARGE, that will give, once per battle, doesn't cost an action, all friendly melees an init boost and the CHARGE abilty for one turn (plus maybe +1 speed
and voila, there you go. A primal human faction.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 09:06 PM |
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What about the Nephilim (half god) or Archon? Both non-flying powerhouses for haven.
I just imagen the Swordbearer to be a Nephilim, being bred by the gods/angels as powerful warriors.
Sirrush is a dragon-wolf that hunts other dragons, it suits the wolf-theme. It is also a holy creature.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted August 22, 2014 09:09 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 21:10, 22 Aug 2014.
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JollyJoker said:
I already delivered. Giant. German mythological creature - basically a wild colossus.
You forgot that giants are associated with Fortress and Dwarves. Not only because they have giant dwarves but also because Fortress is heavy influanced by Germanic and Scandinavian myths.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 22, 2014 09:26 PM |
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Agreed with Avonu, Giants don't fit with angelic Haven in my oppinion. But I also acknowledge Stevie's challenge, it is indeed very hard to come up with a valid alternative.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 09:43 PM |
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Except that the idea isn't an ANGELIC Haven. It's supposed to be a more primal Haven.
I would give Fortress the Troll instead - Troll is a Norse creature, as is the Valkyrie.
We also have Ogres.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 09:44 PM |
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What Avonu said. Plus, it's an oversized humanoid. Remember, we don't want that, because people would complain about having too many humans.
What we want is either a beast or a magical being. Although a magical one wouldn't really fit the theme of Wolf dutchy. They're really raw and something like a glory would feel too refined for them.
I would go for a warewolf.
Big arms and claws, hunched back, very agile and savage. Abilities like leaping and ravaging everything in front of him, etc.
It's really the best creature I can see for Wolf Dutchy.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 22, 2014 09:56 PM |
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Wyverns for Haven! They are very used in Medieval Heraldry, much like griffins... plus they look badass
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 10:03 PM |
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Wyverns are stronghold material.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 10:03 PM |
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Werewolves are champion material indeed if they ever get implemented, but I really wouldn't put them in Haven. Werewolves are arguably uncontrollable beasts and even though they have to do something with Wolves, their nature doesn't fit Haven at all in my opinion.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 22, 2014 10:05 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Except that the idea isn't an ANGELIC Haven. It's supposed to be a more primal Haven.
Well yes, but ... Angels are still there. 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 10:10 PM |
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RMZ, the idea is like JJ said, to have a PRIMAL Haven, not your usual bright and shiny Haven.
I'm suggesting the werewolf as a Wolf Dutchy champion mostly.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 10:15 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 22:17, 22 Aug 2014.
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Stevie said:
RMZ, the idea is like JJ said, to have a PRIMAL Haven, not your usual bright and shiny Haven.
I'm suggesting the werewolf as a Wolf Dutchy champion mostly.
I know what the idea is, if they were some sort of savages or "dark" Haven, it would fit. However, they are still the ones that believe in Elrath and have Angel as their second champion, and having Angels and Werewolves together in one town/army is just stupid.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 22, 2014 10:19 PM |
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Werewolves don't fit as champion creatures, they should be elite at best...
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This thread is pages long: 
