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| Thread: What do you think of the MMH7 skill system insofar? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 19, 2015 07:57 PM |
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Poll Question:
What do you think of the MMH7 skill system insofar?
Thanks for commenting on your vote the best you can.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 08:03 PM |
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I have mixed feelings about it.
I'll definitely miss racial perks and cross-requirements between specific skilltrees, but I'm not sure if implementing these features in H7 wouldn't make the system too convulted. After all, you have to remember that every class will have its own set of available skills, its own skillwheel and its own ultimates.
In the end, I'm willing to give it a chance. I can't say whether I like it or dislike at this point, unfortunately...
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 19, 2015 08:06 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I have mixed feelings about it.
I can't say whether I like it or dislike at this point, unfortunately...In the end, I'm willing to give it a chance.
+1
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 08:13 PM |
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I voted "I like it."
Now, I don't love it. But I do like it. Sure, there are problems, but all systems tend to have some.
Abilities seem fine, though some seem better made than others. Balancing is still being done, so I have hope. Air Magic looks better than Warcries, for example, via not having each spell have their own ability upgrade as opposed to Warcries having each cry have it's own. But even so, as far as we can see, there are 24 ish skills, just looking through the pics and info given out so far. This is a reduction from the touted 30, which either way, with 30 or 24, I won't mind. No prerequisites, which I like, and it's non-random, which I still like, but there is still a randomizer, so others shouldn't be too mad on that front.
With the seen 24, 6 being racial, 7 magic schools, and roughly 5-6 for "neutral" and "might", it seems fair. Taking racials out of the picture, each hero has 9 out of 18 MI/MA/N skills. Likely, heroes will have 1-2 schools for the lesser adept might heroes, maybe up to 5 for the more adept magic heroes. For those might based having only 2, that's 7-8 skill slots available for ~11 might or neutral skills. That's not really all that bad of a skill selection, in my eyes. Magic will tend to have more schools, and thus less MI/N skills, but, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Magic is magic, might is might.
If it is 30, then there are skills we haven't even seen yet, and it'll be a surprise, I suppose. I'm skeptic of the 30 number, though, simply because we've seen a lot of the ~24, but 6 have been completely in the dark.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted April 19, 2015 08:16 PM |
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Hm, I think there should be a fourth option: "I'm not sure (yet)".
We know the general outline, the Skillwheel, and we know two specific parts of it: the Warcries and Air Magic. Yet in order to be fully able to judge this I need to play it, see it unfold before me, build a hero myself rather than theorizing about it. I know that by that moment it will be too late to change anything.
It's clear the H6 Warcry or Air Magic system (and basically the whole system in general) is not present as it was there. A hero doesn't require only level 5 or 15, there are some skills needed in order to learn spells from the Magic Guild and improve them. There is no simple point-spending anymore, it goes back to the good old Spellbook (to some extent, of course).
I think I should stay with mixed feelings. It's not that I dislike it, and I'm sure that eventually I will come to like it, but the information as it is now is too little to work with.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 08:18 PM |
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted April 19, 2015 08:19 PM |
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Stevie said:
I'm not really buying it.
You don't need to buy the Skillwheel. As long as you buy the game you'll put a smile on Erwan's face  .
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 19, 2015 08:27 PM |
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Mixed but I am leaning more towards don't like than like.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 19, 2015 08:33 PM |
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Elvin said:
Mixed but I am leaning more towards don't like than like.
The same. It can be saved, the question is whether it will...?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 19, 2015 09:08 PM |
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I personally like it.
From what it gives and the variety it presents is sufficient with an option to grow.
The number of skills is OK
Number of perks s more then OK
Number of spells is adjective. Better than H6 that is for sure.
You are free to pick random or not random, and the both spells and perks for what I have seen look varied enough.
For what I wish for from the game, and that is a good solid tight design as a base to build on, and build a solid new player base, this looks good.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 09:27 PM |
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Edited by Steyn at 21:28, 19 Apr 2015.
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With non-random skills I understand the decision for this system in order to prevent a H6-like situation. However I do miss the racial and cross-skill perks and this system feels too restrictive for me. Another thing I dislike is the restriction in mastery of certain skills.
I hope that with the random skill system they will go back to a probability based system with all* skills available to every hero class. However I fear this won't happen 
Compared to H6 it certainly is an improvement, but I would've preferred a system more akin to H5 (and based on random skills).
*) Except racials.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 19, 2015 09:37 PM |
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I don't like it.
Yes, there are some parts of it that are excusable, but overall it seems weighed heavily down by bad decisions that have both proven to be unsuccessful in Heroes 6 and are unnecessary apart from being necessary to stay in tune with the lore that I would rather get rid of anyway.
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What will happen now?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 09:42 PM |
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mixed feelings. I would have to see it in action myself, before i can judge it. This is just too complex question to answer just with the picture and vague description of some skills (which consist currently of 2 skills with perks, out of ... how many? and 8 out of 56 spells).
more speciaficlay before I can make an unbiased statement weather it's good or bad, I need the answer to these questions:
- how much is base damage of each spell?
- how does magic resistance work?
- how much health do units have?
- what is damage scaling like and which skills influence it?
- list of all artifacts which influence skills and spells and ways which they influence them.
- what is the % chance to get certain skills with certain class with ransom skills option ON? Do they have same % chance?
- how does certain army compositions/factions influence the usfullness of a given skill?
- how many heroes there are?
- how does choice of magic school work, when leveling up? Is there a high chance to get certain spells? How does Mage Guild work? Will all spells of one school appear 100% of the time?
- does magic hero have a problem JJ pointed out, given that spells are random, skills are random, and there is 7! magic schools? Does that mean it's best played with random or non-random option? Are both options equaly viable in multiplayer?
- how usefull (OP) or nonusefull is flanking? will they decide to scrape it (they might decide it, as they were saying this)? What will then become of skills/spells that exploit this mechanic?
- how does Logistic work?
- what are other skills? what do they do? how many are there? What are all classes? And what skill combos do each of those classes have? Do all races have the same "prefered" skills? (I would say no, since some are racial) And if not, please tell me what skills do heroes have?
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And there is MANY, MANY more variables that need to be considered before I can decide if I like skill system or not. Remamber QALITY is more important than QUANTITY. H6 had more skills than H3. Tell me which worked better? H3 ones. Right.
I have not tested the game myself, tho I belive people (Stevie and Galaad) have. They are currently the only ones who can answer SOME of thse questions perhaps.
I have confidence, that I am right, when I say anyone who can't answer those questions and says skill-wheel is awsome, or skill-wheel sucks, has biased opinion from the start, witouth giving it a second taught. It's like saying the book sucks, before even reading the title.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 19, 2015 09:48 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 21:54, 19 Apr 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
I have not tested the game myself, tho I belive people (Stevie and Galaad) have. They are currently the only ones who can answer SOME of thse questions perhaps.
No we are not the only ones. And we are not even "VIPs" (contrary as someone said at the blog).
I also feel I should remind we only played first two campaigns missions (Stronghold) of imbalanced pre-alpha for a couple of hours, is not like we could check everything about.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 19, 2015 09:51 PM |
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@Zombi_Wizzard
I think the only way we will get answers to all of your really great points is, when we will be able to play the game.
Right now, we can only express out current opinions.
AS Galaad wrote in the OP
Quote:
What do you think of the MMH7 skill system insofar?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 10:01 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 22:02, 19 Apr 2015.
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Dies_Irae said:
Stevie said:
I'm not really buying it.
You don't need to buy the Skillwheel. As long as you buy the game you'll put a smile on Erwan's face .
How many games do I need to buy until he decides to put one on mine?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 10:09 PM |
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I do not like it.
It is too restrictive. It doesn't allow players to create their own builds and choose what they want to focus on. We have these pointless classes that are messing with the way the game is supposed to be played. The faction I pick shouldn't have a huge effect on what skills I can pick up. And it should never determine how I am suppose to play. Trying to play as an academy might hero is going to be a nightmare. Yet playing as a stronghold magic hero doesn't seem as difficult 
I think they want certain factions to play a certain way. Which would make sense because we know that each faction will have an advantage over one, and weak against another. And I still cannot fathom why they would want this in the first place.
Overall the system is not good and it could be better with just a few tweaks.
Let us pick our mains from a pool of available skills depending on which faction we pick and whether we play might or magic. What we pick can determine our hero class and the extra skills that come with it. Any extra skills cannot be leveled up to get ultimate abilities, only main skills can. This way players can be free to try different ultimate abilities with different factions, not just the preselected ones.
We still haven't seen a might hero class with main skills : offense, defense. This begs the question, what the snow does the ultimate ability for offense and defense do? Is the ultimate so powerful that it must leave your army either powerless (in the case of defense) or defenseless (in the case of offense) in order to be balanced? If so, then lets add to the list of issues that the ultimates are way too OP.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted April 19, 2015 10:24 PM |
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Elvin said:
Mixed but I am leaning more towards don't like than like.
This pretty much sums up what I think.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2015 10:51 PM |
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Stevie said:
Dies_Irae said:
You don't need to buy the Skillwheel. As long as you buy the game you'll put a smile on Erwan's face .
How many games do I need to buy until he decides to put one on mine?
Ummm... hahaha you think he choose this job to make you happy? No No my friend, he gets sadistical laugh every time you preorder a game, I'm sure of it. 
Well ... maybe, he's not THAT evil ... I mean ...
altho sometimes one can wonder...
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 20, 2015 12:43 AM |
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I personally like it. It needs some polishing and more explanation though. And don't forget - the MOST important thing about the skills is how good they will be balanced! There should not be any super powerfull skills and there should not be any useless skills as well.
The one thing I don't like is the ultimate skills and the fact that we will all chase them and ignore everything else, which makes the game a bit linear. The developers must work here and offer a solution.
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