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| Thread: What do you think of the MMH7 skill system insofar? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 09:23 PM |
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ninjata12 said:
kiryu133 said:
i like the system, i really do, but the more i think about it...
it ain't heroes. Heroes is all about doing what you can with what you have even if what you is not what you want. this means that any skill system needs to be made with randomness in mind. if it doesn't, it ain't heroes. would love to see it in another franchise though.
You can still choose the random skills option, you just have to play with a certain hero class. It's almost like H3 - there we had random skills, but it was still somehow directed - for example we couldn't get Fire magic with Rampart or Castle heroes. It is the same now, the only difference is that we can see the skillwheel and in H3 it was invisible...
The H3 system has randomness, but very few choices - eight skill slots (one or two already preset), no perks, and half of the level-up choices are obvious. After some 20 levels, all slots are filled up and only primary stats increase.
The H7 skill wheel, as proposed, has more choices than H3 (random or not). I'd consider it a good setup for some 15-20 levels. The problem is that the skill set is closed for each hero, which limits the choices beyond that.
At higher levels, I could imagine the wheel to open up instead, why not adding more slots at level 15+?. New skills beyond the original set would then be offered with probabilities. (For non-random play, the available extras would also be predetermined.)
In H3, the high-level heroes become more similar to each other (via primary stats). That is not a bad idea. Differences due to grandmaster skills and classes will remain anyway.
As I remember H5, its skill wheel also suffers from the fact that at high levels there are no choices left, and the game becomes less interesting in that respect. (Hidden by the incredibly high experience required for further levels.)
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 03, 2015 12:38 AM |
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I just expected it to be as complex and interesting as H5 ToTE skill tree. That's why H7 skill tree made me feel some kind of disappointment, it feels over-simplified. But when you look at it without comparing it to H5 ToTE, it is not bad. H5 ToTE's was simply fascinating, many paths to follow in every gameplay, really complex and with myriad of possible builds. It is one of the things that make H5 my favourite.
Although I'm sure there must be people who don't like H5 ToTE skill system because it is not H3.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 12:09 PM |
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Preemptive strike is overpowered. In fact, a lot of abilities are too powerful and it will make the game extremely unbalanced and the battles will be won by abilities and skills, not by armies and tactics. I am really worried about the balancing of this game...
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2015 08:21 PM |
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Economy sounds really op on secondary heroes.
I mean if I skill my secondary hero only on Economy,then how fast will I be able to reach the master ability?Level 7 or 8 or what?that does sound quite powerful in the late game.
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 12, 2015 08:54 PM |
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Greenlore said:
Economy sounds really op on secondary heroes.
I mean if I skill my secondary hero only on Economy,then how fast will I be able to reach the master ability?Level 7 or 8 or what?that does sound quite powerful in the late game.
But if you play with randomness you won't be able to to reach master that fast, it would be random so you don't know if you will even get economy in first 5 levels, also for example in Haven only one hero has economy as main skill - Knight
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 12, 2015 09:06 PM |
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These skills only emphasize my dislike for the H7 skill system. Paragon is an exercise in pointlessness: Pay experience (skillpoints) now to get experience later. Why would one even bother? Then you can pay even more skill points to get +2 Attack and Defence or +2 Spellpower and Knowledge. Woohoo. Why not just throw the skill points into Offense and Defense skills in the first place? But of course, you can always get the Mentor ability to get master Economy on your secondary heroes for absurd bonuses in all your cities.
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What will happen now?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted May 12, 2015 10:33 PM |
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Enlightnement (bonus XP gain) was always present in heroes games, and was always useless ... They should learn by now. I mean in H3 it was one of the worst skills to get, and in H5 wasn't much better. Mentor is good.
Town planer looks bad choice imo. For secondary hero early game, it's realy OP. Later in the game, it's more or less usleless ... I'm not fan of this one. I must add that so far skills were mostly OK. Town planer is first skill I realy disslike. And ofc Paragon in general ... But that was in all games. I also know in advance I'll also hate Logistics most likely (I always hate it) ... so after a decent start, it looks not so impresive anymore ... I hope we'll get better skills in future, or that these skills will show not to be bad, once I play the actual game.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 12, 2015 10:39 PM |
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WoG pretty much added important bonuses to useless skills to make them viable choices. For example learning added 1 extra primary skill per level (similar to h5) and the hero would receive experience daily. Eagle Eye gave you a spell each level and also gave your hero a chance to nullify a spell cast by the enemy hero.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2015 10:58 PM |
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Paragon skills are boring, and a waste of slots for a main hero, but not necessarily useless for the game - there are always secondaries.
However, the chance that Eagle Eye in this form will help any hero is tiny as always. There must be a tradition that annoying skills have to be offered.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2015 11:07 PM |
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Your second heroe will get level ups really hard, so don't worry about it. Usually second heroe is just for scouting and only stays at level 1 or 2.
About the Paragon being useless - imagine that you play small map and get Fighter and Dragon Blood on day 1? It will be really good for a rush.
The thing with the new skill system and the classes is that you can experiment and try many different strategies vs different races on different map sizes and different enemy heroes. We have to wait for the final game, because balancing will be crucial for H7 with so many abilities that are really powerfull...
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 13, 2015 01:33 AM |
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I ABHOR "Town Planner" as a novice skill, or even as a skill.
Is it so hard to come with an original idea? Everyone will have a secondary hero and make her/him touch Dolmens of Knowledge and get this skill easily once you know which class has it in their skillwheel. It's a wasted slot.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 13, 2015 06:05 AM |
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Skills like Town Planner should have an X factor in their effect, so they can be balanced. In the proposed setting it's too obvious that one must recruit a new governor-town planner for each town as soon as it is taken. Governor impact could depend on hero level, so such economy skills don't become useful without doing anything.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 13, 2015 07:27 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Enlightnement (bonus XP gain) was always present in heroes games, and was always useless ... They should learn by now. I mean in H3 it was one of the worst skills to get, and in H5 wasn't much better. Mentor is good.
I think in H5 it was a pretty good skill. Once you level up, you got 1 attribute point for every 2 levels and it also worked retrospective - at level 20, that was 10 attribute points for 3 invested skill points. In H7, you get a fixed 4 attribute points for the same 3 invested skill points (basic Paragon + Fighter + Dragon Blood), and then you don't even get the full experience bonus because you need to invest another 3 skill points to get the skill to expert level.
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What will happen now?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted May 13, 2015 08:24 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
Enlightnement (bonus XP gain) was always present in heroes games, and was always useless ... They should learn by now. I mean in H3 it was one of the worst skills to get, and in H5 wasn't much better. Mentor is good.
I think in H5 it was a pretty good skill. Once you level up, you got 1 attribute point for every 2 levels and it also worked retrospective - at level 20, that was 10 attribute points for 3 invested skill points. In H7, you get a fixed 4 attribute points for the same 3 invested skill points (basic Paragon + Fighter + Dragon Blood), and then you don't even get the full experience bonus because you need to invest another 3 skill points to get the skill to expert level.
Oh right ... you are correct. I very rarely picked that skill anyway tho. In H3 it was useless (not completly, but it was veaker than most other skills), untill, like LW says WoG fiext it, but that's a mod, and I don't count mods as part of official game. In H5 they actualy, as you say fixed it, and now they reverted it back. It's now another of those things, that H5 improved, and was took away. Anyways, looks like this will be another game, where I will avoid this "bonus xp skill", and ALWAYS pick up "bonus movement skill", other will be up to game/hero. Oh with economy we now have another skill that is going to be ALWAYS present on secondary hero.
I can already see first move strategy of H7:
1. build tavern
2. recruit another hero (that has economy)
3. pick logistics for main hero, and economy for secondary.
This is why random way will be only way to play, as you aovid this. I think randomness will save it. BUT originaly this was meant to be non-random, which would be terrible...just like H6.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 13, 2015 11:48 AM |
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Guys, from what I've read, the buildings will be really expensive and building 2 of them in 1 turn will prevent you from hiring 2nd hero or buying an army. So again, it will come down to strategy, and H7 seems to offer a lot of different paths for us to take...
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 13, 2015 12:38 PM |
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On the contrary, I have heard from people that played the game during the fanday that buildings are extremly cheap, for example an elite dwelling that costs just 2 ore and 2 wood besides gold.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 13, 2015 12:41 PM |
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probably just to allow people to quickly build the dwellings and get to the action.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 13, 2015 01:05 PM |
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The good thing is - this can all be fixed with little balancing. Again, the game will offer a lot of new things, so balancing will be the most important thing in H7.
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 13, 2015 01:18 PM |
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Don't tell me...
Another thread with lots of QPs given by Alcibiades Heroes 7 voting thread ?
I think Ubisoft finally kicked it out 
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted May 13, 2015 01:53 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
Enlightnement (bonus XP gain) was always present in heroes games, and was always useless ... They should learn by now. I mean in H3 it was one of the worst skills to get, and in H5 wasn't much better. Mentor is good.
I think in H5 it was a pretty good skill. Once you level up, you got 1 attribute point for every 2 levels and it also worked retrospective - at level 20, that was 10 attribute points for 3 invested skill points. In H7, you get a fixed 4 attribute points for the same 3 invested skill points (basic Paragon + Fighter + Dragon Blood), and then you don't even get the full experience bonus because you need to invest another 3 skill points to get the skill to expert level.
H5 pretty much nailed it. I don't understand why they don't use it again :/
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