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| Thread: This is for gender ambiguity |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2016 05:49 PM |
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This is for gender ambiguity
So guys, I recently found out about someone in my circle (context's unimportant) that he's been faking his gender identity for quite a while, claiming that he's female when he actually isn't (nor will he ever be). His excuse for that was something along the lines of a powerful "female persona" and that he wanted me to keep referring to him as female either way, or he'd get offended or something. Now, I could easily entertain the notion for his sake, but I can't for my sake because that's basically a delusional lie. As such, I believe that the best course of action would be to break ties and ignore him from now on. Might not be the ideal scenario, but probably the best scenario for both of us.
How do you people feel about this and what would you do if you were me?
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 16, 2016 06:01 PM |
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If I were you I'd be supportive, accept her for who she is and not be a total transphobe. I'd be there for her if she needs me and lend an ear to her troubles.
If you can't do the right thing, at least let her know you're not good enough and leave it at that. The last thing she is gonna need is someone thinking they know her better than she does. Because you do not know her better than she does and suggesting otherwise is disrespectful, harmful and dangerous.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted November 16, 2016 06:04 PM |
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Stevie said:
because that's basically a delusional lie.
So what? Society is dependent on countless number of such delusional lies, what does one more matter?
Also...
Quote:
As such, I believe that the best course of action would be to break ties and ignore him from now on.
If that is your natural reaction to such an insignificant change in communication then you probably didn't really care much about him/her to begin with so whatever you do doesn't really matter.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 16, 2016 06:06 PM |
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If this is about me, please don't ignore me.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted November 16, 2016 06:06 PM |
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I would try to discuss the problem with him. Trying to use logic and explain to his conditioned mind by 1+1=2 that he's a man.
In fact I would try to make him understand where the real problem lies for creating that distorted gender identity. He's maybe just refusing the fact that he's attracted to men and tries to change his gender rather than changing his attraction to stay heterosexual, I'm just saying. Try not to ignore him, but don't comfort him with his lies, adress him like a man even if he's offended.
Now if he really wants to change, I think there are many operations that can grant him that.
____________
Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 16, 2016 06:12 PM |
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There are people who are biologically born with male genitalia but have the urges of a female because their hormone levels are different. Not all of them take the measure of having a sex change operation. So, rather than a delusional lie, it can also be a real biological irregularity indeed, or it can be just something psychological, even something that is done just to get attention or whatever...
If you consider the friendship worth it, it shouldn't be a big deal, although it might take some time getting used to.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted November 16, 2016 06:15 PM |
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AlHazin said:
I would try to discuss the problem with him. Trying to use logic and explain to his conditioned mind by 1+1=2 that he's a man.
What does logic have to do with how people FEEL about themselves? That is a recipe for disaster. Why not suggest to pray the gay away instead and spit in his/her face while you are at it...
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 16, 2016 06:19 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
If this is about me, please don't ignore me.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 16, 2016 06:21 PM |
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Is this an internet only friendship?
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 16, 2016 06:21 PM |
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There is plenty of studies, research and literature on this subject and I'd recommend all of you to do some research before saying things you won't be able to take back. It is a sensitive subject (especially after the recent US election) and many people live in constant fear for losing their identity, rights, freedom, dignity and very lives due to grave misunderstandings and hatred. If this is too much effort, at least follow these simple rules:
1. if someone asks you to call them by a specific pronoun, YOU DO THAT.
2. They know who they are better than you possibly could.
3. Always call someone by their preferred pronoun.
4. It is NOT a mental disorder.
5. ALWAYS call someone by their preferred pronoun.
6. You do not understand gender sciences.
7. always, always, ALWAYS call someone by their preferred pronoun.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted November 16, 2016 06:23 PM |
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Edited by AlHazin at 18:25, 16 Nov 2016.
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Sometimes logic beats emotions when the new reality isn't fully installed. When society was clearly defining the genders, identities... et caetera, people didn't have the margin they have now to be lost defining oneself.
If you keep following your feelings, you loose sense of reality.
Then again, we don't even know the person concerned and we don't have enough details to really know what to do. Only Stevie has.
Edit : it was answering FuChris, for those who ninjated in between 
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 16, 2016 06:31 PM |
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Speaking purely biologically, you can't change the fact that once born a man, you'll die a man, and vice versa if you're a woman. Simple fact based on the presence of the XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes.
Mentally, it's a different question. For homosexuality, for instance, it has already been proven that for gay males, several sections within the brain have developed in a way that's common for females, while for gay females it's the opposite. For males, it seems to be related to the two testosterone "bursts" that occur within the growing foetus; if either doesn't fire as it should, the male will most likely end up being gay. For females, this process is yet still fairly undetermined, since testosterone plays no role of any kind.
In any case, the brain forms differently. Likewise, there are many people who feel as if they're born into the wrong body. They feel like male, but are trapped in a female body or the other way around. I don't have all that much info on that aspect, but I suspect brain structure might be a source here, too. These feelings are therefore biologically driven and not a psychological state of mind that you can treat with therapy as some would naievely claim. There's no cure for the way it has been built in the past, just like you can't change the fact that the daytime sky is blue.
What is important is to respect each individual for what he or she is, as long as they're not restricting you in what you can feel or think. If you can't tolerate the fact that some people are different than you, I personally feel you should put up the question whether it's their problem, or yours to begin with. The second one is of course an ugly truth, because it indicates a shortcoming in how you regard other people, other human living beings who share this world with you. As to the how and why you feel so negatively about these other people is a question you should mostly answer for yourself. For me, as an outsider, it does point to a somewhat narrowminded view of other people.
Here on these forums it's even more bloated to consider this issue than with people in reallife, since you're unlikely to ever meet the people on these forums ever "in the flesh". As such, if someone asks you if he or she could be addressed in a way that makes the person feel you respect him or her, that's a small effort to make and can make a truckload of difference in the communication here on the forums. Of course, as long as it's not something ridiculous, like addressing me as Emperor Maurice. Hmm ... on second thought ...
But in all seriousness, you know what I mean.
Coming from you, I am unpleasantly surprised, given your religious background. I am agnostic and as such am not well-versed in Catholic doctrine, but doesn't God say that you should love others like you love yourself, turn the other cheek and not be judgmental? That the only one allowed to really judge a person is God Himself? And yet, here you judge that guy who feels more female than male. Can you even reconcile this statement of breaking ties with that person with your religious upbringing?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted November 16, 2016 06:36 PM |
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Either psychological or biological, it's still a disease and diseases need treatment, and butchering your genitals doesn't count as treatment. If there is an hormonal problem, it can be easily fixed, there are testosterone supplements that can be taken, as well as avoiding certain chemicals that can be even found in certain food containers(plastic is one of them) or drugs, that can increase estrogen level to abnormal levels. It's not healthy to have an excess amount of a hormone that the other gender should have, it can lead to hair loss, lack of energy, weight gain, insomnia and even infertility. If it's psychological it needs treatment too, doing an unnecessary severe surgery and mutilating your sexual organs is simply insane, plus look at the rate of suicide of transsexual people, they aren't mentally stable to begin with and then dealing with post-surgery recovery and hormone changes is too much for them.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 16, 2016 06:41 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 18:42, 16 Nov 2016.
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Maurice said:
Coming from you, I am unpleasantly surprised, given your religious background. I am agnostic and as such am not well-versed in Catholic doctrine, but doesn't God say that you should love others like you love yourself, turn the other cheek and not be judgmental? That the only one allowed to really judge a person is God Himself? And yet, here you judge that guy who feels more female than male. Can you even reconcile this statement of breaking ties with that person with your religious upbringing?
Oh, it is quite easy. Because, technically, in Christianity you are not logically held to act in any way that is good because all evil is forgiven.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 16, 2016 06:44 PM |
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@Maurice
Nice elaboration except that being transgender is not exactly the same as being gay, one is about feeling attracted to the same sex, while the other is about feeling yourself like the opposite sex. A gay man doesn't necessarily feel like a woman and a transgender person doesn't necessarily feel attracted to the sex of his/her biological origin, he/she can even be asexual or a man having an operation, turning into a woman can still be a "lesbian" for example.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted November 16, 2016 06:45 PM |
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AlHazin said:
If you keep following your feelings, you loose sense of reality.
Reality is very much subjective and depends on how much you know about it.
Maurice said:
Mentally, it's a different question. For homosexuality, for instance, it has already been proven that for gay males, several sections within the brain have developed in a way that's common for females, while for gay females it's the opposite. For males, it seems to be related to the two testosterone "bursts" that occur within the growing foetus; if either doesn't fire as it should, the male will most likely end up being gay. For females, this process is yet still fairly undetermined, since testosterone plays no role of any kind.
Actually it is statistically proven that straight men are likely to have homosexual inclinations as the get older(somewhere around age 50). This suggests that these is an actual evolutionary factor involved.
LizardWarrior said:
Either psychological or biological, it's still a disease and diseases need treatment
Just...no. Call it an evolutionary dead end but never a disease.
____________
"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted November 16, 2016 06:50 PM |
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fuChris said:
Reality is very much subjective and depends on how much you know about it.
That's where our points of view differ. I believe that the reality exists, above all our points of view of it.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 16, 2016 06:58 PM |
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External reality, of course, exists independent of your perception, AlHazin. But your gender identity is not an idea and for some people not in sync with their physiological development. Biologically, you can have a penis and still have the urges of a woman, which is also an external (and internal) reality.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted November 16, 2016 06:59 PM |
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fuChris said:
Actually it is statistically proven that straight men are likely to have homosexual inclinations as the get older(somewhere around age 50). This suggests that these is an actual evolutionary factor involved.
LizardWarrior said:
Either psychological or biological, it's still a disease and diseases need treatment
Just...no. Call it an evolutionary dead end but never a disease.
No matter how much you want to deny it, it is a disease. It deprives an individual of reproductive capabilities (via hormone changes or self-inflicted via surgery) and produces psychological problems, then sex change surgery will only make things worse, not only that it's an unnecessary difficult procedure, it also changes hormones which will severely affect the brain. Also, old people are more likely to get any kind of disease, as the organism grows older, the tissues get weaker, the cells replicate copy after copy and this leads to errors. Old people, and men especially, are more likely to develop Alzheimer, diabetes, heart problems, arthritis and cancer. It's inevitable that at old age you will also suffer memory and concentration loss, so the brain is much weaker than the one of a 20-year old.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 16, 2016 07:08 PM |
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A disease is something that harms or hinders you mentally or physically which is not the case for homosexuality. Saying it's a disease is like saying being left-handed is a disease. Having children is not a criteria for being healthy (most of us here would be considered very sick if it was) and homosexual people can have children with artificial methods or through adaptation anyway.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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