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| Thread: Military service |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted January 20, 2017 12:20 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 12:22, 20 Jan 2017.
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Military service
Recently, there is a talk in my country how the government wants that every young person (>18) has to serve the military for a few months, to have a "professional army". What a bunch of foolishness.
1. is there really a need to waste about two months in a summer camp just so you can shoot stuff? We already have shooting ranges for that.
2. they want to spend minimally 40 million euros for that. As if the country doesn't have enough debts. And yet, they can just lower the wages as if it was nothing.
3. why would even I want to enlist? Military is not my business. As if I'd even want to go in a war.
4. what possibly could I even learn that I cannot do at home and that I will have to use that knowledge to do something every day?
This is what I want to say to everyone that thinks this is necessary.
And finally, if there is an upcoming war about, I do not wish to be a part of it. It basically is a clash of political ideology, which sends civilians and army into battle.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted January 20, 2017 12:40 PM |
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So, conscription in your country lasts only 2 months? Or it's just basic training course?
What they justify this on? rapefugees or the threat of Putin?
Normally, I'd be all in for a military course. And it's not just learning to properly shoot stuff and maintain your gun. In theory you also learn some basic survival skills, learn to read maps and a bunch of other stuff.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted January 20, 2017 12:46 PM |
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The article I read doesn't say anything, but I guess it could be true the basis are the terrorist attacks that happened in Europe.
Anyway, I should also mention not even women are spared.
Well, this could only serve those to more physically-adapt (those that have sports as career, maybe). Though I'm not one of those.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 20, 2017 01:14 PM |
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maybe personel has nothing special to do...teeneagers have to feel respect again...and they want to waste some money...
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted January 20, 2017 01:29 PM |
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The president and some of the former ministers of defence do say this obligatory military service is a must.
Well, I say, is it really that important right now? And yet they wonder why more and more people are moving out of this country (among other reasons).
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted January 20, 2017 01:53 PM |
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You're from Croatia, right?
Here they brought back conscription service after yet another khokhol revolution few years back (RIP Ihor) and the "impending" threat of Putin. (paranoia is so high one of the possible invasion scenarios are russian troops disembarking the Kaliningrad-Moscow train.)
They try to encourage people to "volunteer" for conscription by promising them monetary compensations(and yes, you guessed it, none had received it) and pseudopatriotism, meanwhile, money's wasted on overly expensive cutlery and kitchen equipment, as well as some kraut made APCs.
If there's a similar scenario in your country, I guess, the dipcraps that run it are getting desperate, and are trying to distract the impoverished and pissed off public by making up an enemy.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 20, 2017 03:07 PM |
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I definitely prefer a small professional army and not conscription.
My problem isn't really what is going on rather than it is something forced. Which btw. is the same problem I have with the school system.
I remember when it was my turn, I was lucky I could pick my time and got to pull a number at a time everyone who didn't want to join didn't have to.
About the experience itself.. To me, a person who absolutely loathed school trips and the "solidarity" (rather torment in my opinion) it created and gym classes, I definitely wouldn't have looked forward to having to spend months under even worse/harder circumstances.. On the other hand the majority of the people I heard speak about their experiences as conscript told it as something very positive.. even life changing/enriching at times, and they were from a time where it was even worse/tougher.
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Living time backwards
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted January 20, 2017 03:31 PM |
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EnergyZ -
EnergyZ said:
Recently, there is a talk in my country how the government wants that every young person (>18) has to serve the military for a few months, to have a "professional army". What a bunch of foolishness.
1. is there really a need to waste about two months in a summer camp just so you can shoot stuff? We already have shooting ranges for that.
2. they want to spend minimally 40 million euros for that. As if the country doesn't have enough debts. And yet, they can just lower the wages as if it was nothing.
3. why would even I want to enlist? Military is not my business. As if I'd even want to go in a war.
4. what possibly could I even learn that I cannot do at home and that I will have to use that knowledge to do something every day?
This is what I want to say to everyone that thinks this is necessary.
And finally, if there is an upcoming war about, I do not wish to be a part of it. It basically is a clash of political ideology, which sends civilians and army into battle.
First off - Whahahhaaaaaaaa  .
1. Only two month, and without sending you to the war? Why so easy? - This is not wasting a time, there your brain will be little bit washed  .
In general - it is not so bad.
2. Your citizens may dying from the starvation, your country may bee poor as hell, but you must have a serious military stuff! I am happy that this logic is still persist
3. On the war is two type of victims/targets, first - military personal, and second - non-trained yet military persona, there is no civilians .
4. Well, they can learn you how to obey the orders, even if this means - to be squashed or teared apart like a broken doll You will be no able to learn that at home.
5. If the war is upcoming, the war will not ask you about participation , to participate or not, this is truly depend not on your decision, but on your luck
I am joking. Do not accept too serious, I just warn you about that, because I have some precedents on this forum.. Sorry again, for my dark humor, well, but I think this is better than spreading a pedophilia banners  .
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted January 20, 2017 03:47 PM |
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Edited by phe at 15:50, 20 Jan 2017.
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frostsh said:
Your citizens may dying from the starvation, your country may bee poor as hell, but you must have a serious military stuff! I am happy that this logic is still persist
and we will have died country because of famine, difficult to live in, backwarded country of poor economy and no scientic(in military too) progress, defeated by much stronger enemy anyway...
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted January 20, 2017 04:05 PM |
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phe -
phe said:
and we will have died country because of famine, difficult to live in, backwarded country of poor economy and no scientic(in military too) progress, defeated by much stronger enemy anyway...
Yep. I am actually talkin about that.
kipshasz -
The paranoia mr kipshasz, it is explained the world in terms of pseudoscience and mythological utopia, that has been debunked, and confirmed as ineffective a long time ago, by anyone powerful.
But the fear of destabilization, not the direct an open invasion, but again, the destabilization, this is actual reality of the human civilization, beginning from the time of the Ancient Roman Empire, Ancient China, and Egypt. RF, the "putin" as you called it, have power to destabilize anything that is more weak than RF - this is obviously, and in the many times has been confirmed by history.
One of the most fresh examples - The Republic of Ukraine.
To destabilize the country, a many methods can be used. In this example will be something like that <imo> : The larger amount of nation-guys in the RoU, the weakest quality of life there, the more chances for the RoU to be totally destabilized, the less chances for the Balkans and the nearest small countries to survive.... This is obviously.
Well it is too primitive, and does not counts a many factors, but in my humble opinion - is good enough.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted January 20, 2017 04:06 PM |
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Again, I move that we give h4troll a penalty for derailing a thread. Maybe a short silence too.
And yes, forced military services can be hard on introverted people, so Forfy's right there.
And also, not sure how far this has spread in the eastern bloc, but in former commie countries there's a thing which is called "dedovschina", were older recruits(in countries where there's a 2 year conscription service) basically make the newbies their female dogs, if you know what I mean. In other, more coc friendly terms, hardcore bullying.
For me personally this escalation of conscription(which is done very poorly in my country might I add) is nothing more than result of the rampaging paranoia of "the russians are coming".
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted January 20, 2017 04:12 PM |
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There are people who was born to it. Good for one is not good for another. Its a good job if you are honest man. And not good for thugs. The same is country. If you live in bandit country dont go there because they order you eg. bombing civilians etc. In normal state its good.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2017 04:34 PM |
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Here, forced military service has been introduced by the communist regime, it was removed in the early 2000s (though it should have been removed in 1990, it's just that this country moves like a slug). But now if you want to be part of the army as a regular soldier (cannon fodder), you can join the army reserve, basically you do 2 weeks of instruction every year and get paid 10% of a soldier's salary every month. But as soon as a war starts, you are shipped off to the front-lines.
But sending every young adult into the army. Even here during the communist regime, you would do 2 years of army as soon as you became adult, but it could be postponed or skipped (or even doing a "lighter" form of instruction) it if you were admitted into an university.
Army sucks though, my parents did it because it was obligatory back then. Most of the time you serve as a mere workforce for the state, either shoveling snow off the streets or working other menial jobs, sometimes guarding some convoys or factories. It's less about shooting guns and more about shoveling dirt, with the "occasional" dying during war time.
Fun fact: it didn't take long for the army to turn guns against the dictator during the revolution
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted January 20, 2017 05:08 PM |
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When you say your parents, I hope you mean only your father. Did women do it too?
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 20, 2017 05:43 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
I definitely prefer a small professional army and not conscription.
My problem isn't really what is going on rather than it is something forced. Which btw. is the same problem I have with the school system.
I remember when it was my turn, I was lucky I could pick my time and got to pull a number at a time everyone who didn't want to join didn't have to.
About the experience itself.. To me, a person who absolutely loathed school trips and the "solidarity" (rather torment in my opinion) it created and gym classes, I definitely wouldn't have looked forward to having to spend months under even worse/harder circumstances.. On the other hand the majority of the people I heard speak about their experiences as conscript told it as something very positive.. even life changing/enriching at times, and they were from a time where it was even worse/tougher.
This, so much this. it could be my Hungarian culture speaking, but in our history we've almost always relied on small professional armies (at the height of our success, look at Mathias Corvinus, 8000 strong professional army and he took Vienna, obliterated a 42000 strong Polish army, subjugated the croats etc). In contemporary times this is coming back in a big way, big armies are costly and ineffective when the job can be done far better by the secret service and special ops takin out key targets and plunging organisations and states into chaos. A standing army is a deterrence (and a poor one) it has little practical value if you lack a proper intelligence service, and hacking is becoming a massive security threat as our defence (offense is included in that lol) is almost entirely reliant on electronics that are vulnerable to cyber attacks.
But personally, just like politics I believe soldiering is a professional career.
I totally abhor the idea of conscription, it equates to forced slavery so I will never abide the institution of it.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted January 20, 2017 05:50 PM |
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We also know from the Might & Magic series how much a small well armed group can do, I remember I once cleared out the caves between Nighorn and LotG with well equipped level ~15 characters exploiting the layout of the caves. 
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Living time backwards
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 20, 2017 06:04 PM |
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Quote:
3. why would even I want to enlist? Military is not my business. As if I'd even want to go in a war.
4. what possibly could I even learn that I cannot do at home and that I will have to use that knowledge to do something every day?
That's just it though, it's not about what you want or what you get. It's about what you give.
I'm not saying your politicians are making the right choice, I don't know the threats your country might face, your economical state etc. etc., I'm just saying that forced conscription is something you need to look at from a national point of view, rather than a personal one.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 20, 2017 06:14 PM |
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Quote:
something you need to look at from a national point of view
Lol why? What loyalty do you owe your country, I'd get it if your a nationalist, but common people in Western Democracies couldn't give a toss about a national point of view, at best they'd consent to sending other people's children off to die, but that doesn't really come back to them. Even in the US the idea of patriotism only prevails to get imbeciles to die for the country, real soldiers when asked will rarely be motivated by ideas of nationhood (though they'll officially claim to be), they're soldiers because they're soldiers, it's a profession and nobody likes to admit that they enjoy the regimen and murder.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted January 20, 2017 06:18 PM |
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That's called military service but that's called "national service" too.
It might seem illogical, but it's basically like you owe a duty to your country that you have to fulfill, if you are in the required conditions to do so. What you might learn or experience is an extra, a bonus.
Oh and your opinion doesn't matter -I mean not you tSar, but in a general point of view, your country knows better than you.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 20, 2017 06:24 PM |
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AlHazin said:
When you say your parents, I hope you mean only your father. Did women do it too?
Yes, my mother did it too. Everyone had too, but women had an easier service( also she was a university student back then and had instruction only one day a week ), but shoveling snow was still on the menu.
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